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Not Getting AA

Old 05-15-2013, 01:53 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alraihani View Post
I still feel AA has some creepy and personally invasive tendencies, i just dont have a choice. im still eaiting on the money step and the getting laid step.


NO comment required! BE WELL
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Alraihani View Post
I still feel AA has some creepy and personally invasive tendencies, i just dont have a choice. im still eaiting on the money step and the getting laid step.
Say what?

I assume there is a typo there but my mind is not wrapping around what it is.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:37 PM
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It was the personal invasiveness that bugged me the most. I or someone else would share very personal information and even bare their soul, so that after the meeting the share could be analyzed to determine what is wrong with their sobriety. I do not think that helps anyone.

Not everyone needs to turn their lives over to the care of a sponsor. And while not all sponsors invade their sponsees lives, I saw too many people quit jobs, move, throw out clothing of particular colors, etc for no real reason but to prove to their sponsor that they were willing. Again, I do not think this helps anyone.

There is a lot of good in the vision of AA, but in practice the sickness of the members is often too pervasive.

But do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Just get the good that you can out of literature and meetings without getting sucked into the negative stuff.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post

Would love to hear others thoughts on this and AA in general, thanks for reading.

this is coming from one who has attended well over 2 thousand meetings
and
has an AA Christian Sponsor
and
has worked the Steps (to the best of my ability anyway)

AA is not for everyone
many I know sobered up other places
home, church etc etc etc

when in AA they say that
if you don't read the AA Big Book
and
if you don't work the Steps
you will get drunk
this can not hold true every time
why
AA came along only after 1935
God (since early times) has always given the drunk a way out
if he or she is willing

it is silly to think that only after 1935
the drunk had a way in which to escape
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:08 AM
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In 1935 2 drunks found that drunks helping each other worked and their lives started to focus on helping new found drunks. Those successful ones started spreading the word around the country. Until this day I don't think any other group, medical, church, jail etc has helped as many in their recovery. BE WELL
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:39 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I too know many people who got clean through the eastern revangelization catholic church program. But if someone.wants to help me with personal life, i tell them instead of telling me about my family life or i should make friends with people in AA, if you are so concerned with my personal life you can help me finda a job or a relationship...oh thats not what aa is about you said then its none of your business if my parents pay for my car.
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:32 PM
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Wow, I wrote this over 3yrs ago, came back on cause I was curious and forgotten what I had wrote.

I stopped going to AA shortly after writing this and guess what? I felt better for it and never relapsed. I'm quite aware it could happen and still take it one day at a time, but I hardly if ever think about drinking anymore. Obviously the 12 steps works great for some people, and I honestly believe that, but I'm just not one of those people. I probably would've eventually relapsed had I stayed. I am an alcoholic, but it doesn't define me and I don't have to say it every time I speak.

I still struggle (not with urges, I have underlying mental health problems) and I'm sure some would call me a "dry drunk", but I don't go to alcohol or drugs (not even tempted to) and live sober on my terms. I'm grateful for my short time in AA, I did take away a lot from there and left the rest I didn't need.

Some people said maybe I just never hit rock bottom to want to work the steps. Pissing in bottles in your room, getting arrested on your front porch, and spending almost half a year in a mental ward, rehabs, and a halfway house is enough of a rock bottom that I ever want to go to.

Everyone has their own path, don't ever believe otherwise. We're all works in progress, no one has it figured out.

Interesting to come back on here and read what I wrote. I still agree %100 with it.
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post
Wow, I wrote this over 3yrs ago, came back on cause I was curious and forgotten what I had wrote....

Interesting to come back on here and read what I wrote. I still agree %100 with it.
Glad it's all working out.

About what your said in your opening post and today:

Yes some in AA will suggest you've been able to stay sober because you aren't a "real alcoholic" as described in the BB or some such nonsense. You'll also likely get hit in the rooms with a "dry drunk" tag. Whatever. The question to ask yourself is why some might feel a need to downplay your accomplishment.

In the beginning a lot of AA reminded me of religion class in elementary school. Much of it well-intended but after awhile I tuned out much of the preaching. I've done some of the same with AA . However, I've always liked the meetings and found many of the members interesting.

I've learned over the years how to go with the flow of the meetings. Yes, I've known numerous AA robots who pontificate about the 12- steps yet are still screwed up. For me the key is not to get sucked into their drama. In the end I take what I need from AA and leave the rest.

All said and done AA has worked very well in my life.
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:59 AM
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Nice to hear how it has all turned out well for you, though statistically you now count as one of AA's failures I suppose.

I read your op and thought your reaction to AA was similar to mine when there was a certain amount of coercion involved. I was in the nut farm at 21, and we had a compulsory meeting each week. I was open to the idea, but I missed the point. Somehow whatever they were trying to tell me just went straight over my head. It didn't make sense to me.

I stayed sober a couple of months after that, progressively getting more and more fearful, and eventually drank. That relapse lasted about a year, and at the end f it, almost at death's door, that AA message started to make sense.

I did wonder why you think some people would call you a dry drunk? I have seen plenty of people attend AA for a while and then go back to normal lives without AA, and a surprising number of them do just fine.

I try to remember that AA is really for a very specific type of drunk, my type. My type seem to require a lot more than some meetings to straighten out.

I see in your post you also did meetings but not steps, a common enough thing. People tell you you might die of you stop meetings. In one sense that might be true but that idea has nothing to do with the AA program.

Perhaps because of the guidance you received you never got to try the program. Maybe your life would have changed like mine did. But on the other hand, I would not have survuved without the steps, and you seem to be doing just fine.

I suppose the conclusion I might draw is either that we are different types of alcoholic, or having got sober by different means, the type of life we got may be quite different.
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Old 07-24-2016, 01:32 AM
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I would never tell someone not to do the steps I did them at 8 years sober and I still have the same sponsor 17 years later.
I have seen dozens of people go out on step 4 so do not do it until you are ready, one alcoholic sharing there experience strength and hope with each other is all that is needed to get sober.
If you can not accept AA try LifeRing or SmartRecovery at least check out them out online.
I use all 3 programs 4 counting SR and I get what I need to stay sober.
good luck
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Old 07-24-2016, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post
...Everyone has their own path, don't ever believe otherwise. We're all works in progress, no one has it figured out..
Yep, we're all works in progress.

Character defects are human emotions and will be with us until we die. Or until someone upstairs turns the lights out on this small planet.

However, we can recognize them as they start to flair which is something I've learned in AA. The same with making amends.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:20 AM
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I think eventually you have to define your own recovery. AA may be a part of the solution or it may not be. Yes, there are jerks in AA just like in any group, but hopefully when people share you identify with some of the things people say. Maybe only one person, but it's worth it then. And you can reflect on the discussion on your own and what the topic means to you.
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:27 AM
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Thanks for the update! Please come back again and let us know you're still sober and moving forward in life!!

AA isn't for everyone, nor is it the only way.

Sending love and hugs to you!
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:32 AM
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I have a hard time with it as well. I've learned a lot however about myself. I personally think there are as many ways to get sober as there are alcoholics. For some AA is the answer, for others it may be some other support or method or spiritual discovery. It varies. I don't like the concept of "get AA or else" because it is a fear based mentality. Many people in AA live in fear of their alcoholism and are in a state of constantly recovering at all times every second of the day. They work the steps doing them many many times over and over . (six step 4 and 5's type stuff.) For me I think it's a no go. I did a step 4/5 and it didn't do much for me. But I don't actually have a lot of wreckage in my past and I generally try to be a descent person anyway. I also forgive myself for my shortcomings rather than beating the s*** out of myself, like many alcoholics do. There are different levels of descent into alcoholism and what some need is not for all. Members of AA are speaking generally to the really hardcore drinkers and that is really good. For some like myself the message can be a little hard to comprehend because my bottom was a little higher, but I don't want to drink and drinking is and has been a problem in my life. AA has been a great source of info and helped me a lot. I wish there were more high bottomers in it to even out the crazy. Hey that's life. Take what you need and leave the rest. The steps are easy, just don't be an ego driven a** and apologize fearlessly when you step in it. I think taking a black and white attitude toward AA is not the best. There are good things and then there can be other stuff that maybe is a little sketchy. Stay at peace within yourself and make a mental list of the positive attributes of AA. Not just the negative. You will see there are some very good things and some bad. Use AA as it works for you. Opinions on how it works and the big book are simply the opinions of people who have had that approach work for them. It is not one size fits all, hardcore recovered alcoholics sometimes forget this and can be a real pain in the a**. But that is what has worked for them and they are speaking to others like them and this is a life saver for many so it is completely necessary in the program. Best wishes, go with god. Peace.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:42 AM
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AA worked for me before. I had two really good sober years and was very involved in AA. I got involved in a relationship that was really bad for me, and started putting that first in my life above everything, relapsed, and it has been a huge, very long struggle trying to get back.
I would say that AA isn't working for me now, because I haven't been able to stay sober for very long (yet). But I know deep down it's that I haven't been working it, and because I am in an area with really poor AA. No fellowship, no sponsors, unfriendly people.
But, I've been listening to Joe and Charlie tapes the past couple of days, and I have seen where I am going wrong. It's been such an enlightening weekend for me! I am going to have to find the few people in this area who are willing to help, because the fellowship is important, but I am also going to have to get to work on my own until I find that help.
I can't wait around for people help when what I really need is God help. I'm going to a meeting tonight, and will go in with the new attitude I've learned recently of "I need help staying sober and working the steps, can you help?" instead of "I hate all your effing guts for not knowing what I need and giving it to me immediately." I'm also planning on going to some meetings in the town next to mine, see how it's going over there.
But, I'm also working the steps by myself, well, just me and God.
I love AA and am grateful for it! I know it's not for everyone, but I know it's where I find the solution to my alcoholism.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:11 AM
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Thank you all for the replies!

My issues with AA were philosophical and also social. Philosophically I can't give my life to the program, it just doesn't jive with me and I have reservations about it cause of that. That's not to say I think everyone who's in is brainwashed or on a wrong path. For example, some people are religious and I'm not, but I never hold that against someone has being intellectually or spiritually inferior.

The takeaways I got from the program were developing an understanding of how fragile sobriety really is, one slip up and you're falling down the mountain again. Coming to terms with my own alcoholism and what that means for maintaining my sobriety.

The big issues I had with it were the people. Maybe I was in the wrong meetings, I went to a lot though. My last sponsor told me that if I didn't do the steps I would drink myself to death. Old timers were telling me what they thought was wrong with me sometimes. Any questions I had about the effectiveness of the program or any remarks that were the slightest critical were met with an attitude of I was just an unconstitutionally incapable drunk. The "fellowship" aspect did not work for me and felt I would only be accepted once I started doing what was expected of me in the program, even though I felt that would not be being true to myself. I just stopped showing up and never heard from my sponsor or anyone from there ever again, they all probably thought I relapsed. There were good people with good intentions, who reached out while I was still attending, but they couldn't help me cause of my issues with the whole thing. I was given up on as a lost cause and that's okay, cause I found myself.

I never wanted my life to revolve around the 12 steps and attending as many meetings as possible. I relapsed once while I was still going because all I ever heard was that I'm powerless and I believed it for a short time. I got sober with the help of my awesome family. The social aspect is still largely missing from my life cause I have no "sober" friends, but I'm grateful for what I have. I work full time and am going to school, so I keep busy.

Alcoholism is on a spectrum, at least how I see it, and recovering from it a not one size fits all. Don't try and fix what works and if what works for you is AA, more power to you. I was just always told AA is the only way in the rooms, but maybe that just gave motivation to prove them wrong.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:14 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by couchloc View Post
Members of AA are speaking generally to the really hardcore drinkers and that is really good. For some like myself the message can be a little hard to comprehend because my bottom was a little higher, but I don't want to drink and drinking is and has been a problem in my life. AA has been a great source of info and helped me a lot. I wish there were more high bottomers in it to even out the crazy.
not sure what its like where youre at, but that's not the case ive seen in the many meetings ive attended all over Michigan. I have seen alcoholics wanting to help alcoholics get sober no matter how far down the scale they've gone.

theres also a crapton of high bottom drinkers here,too.

have you read the intro to the section of stories titled,"they stopped in time?"

idk, saying its hard to comprehend the message of what the big book says because your a high bottom drunk seems rather a terminal uniqueness thing.

and from what I read here, theres high bottom drunks in AA all over the world.

best speaker I ever heard was a woman 42 years old who had just celebrated 28 years of sobriety.


alcohol is only a symptom of much deeper problems- the same problems I have as the high priced attorney who didn't lose a thing, the skidrow drink, man who had 6 blackouts in hios entire drinking career, closet wine drinker.... it goes on.

all I had to do was take the cotton out of my ears and listen.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post
. Any questions I had about the effectiveness of the program or any remarks that were the slightest critical were met with an attitude of I was just an unconstitutionally incapable drunk.
unfortunately,MANY people in AA have absolutely no clue what that " constitutionally incapable' part even means, which it means a person has an IQ so low they cant understand what honesty is- their IQ is so low they cant read or write.
they are not at fault. they seem to have been born that way.

just glad youre sober. really no need to explain why ya don't like AA,though.

or maybe there is a reason?
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:05 PM
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I'm sorry that you didn't get on well in AA, Dude.
But, I'm glad you found your way to sobriety.
At most meetings over here we are counselled, from the outset, to listen for the similarities rather than the differences in what we hear.

Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post
. . . There were good people with good intentions, who reached out while I was still attending, but they couldn't help me cause of my issues with the whole thing. . .

. . . The social aspect is still largely missing from my life cause I have no "sober" friends, but I'm grateful for what I have. . .
Those good intentioned folk might have been your sober friends.
Who knows: you might decide to come back to AA one day.
We will always be here for you and others in need.
Fellows are potential friends.

Take care, Dude.
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneDude87 View Post
... Any questions I had about the effectiveness of the program or any remarks that were the slightest critical were met with an attitude of I was just an unconstitutionally incapable drunk..
Not long after I joined AA I shared at a meeting the 5th step reminded me of the church confessional I used to go as a child. That I understood the cathartic nature of confessing but confession/amends mean little if one's actions don't change. These were my initial thoughts on the 5th/9th steps and I was giving my opinion. However some in the room didn't care for this line of thinking and I felt the bad vibes. I was to take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth. In other words shut the xxxx up and listen. Fortunately, not everyone I met was an AA robot. There were of others with time who welcomed me and who I could talk with.

Imo, often those new to AA will parrot what they've heard share not necessarily because they believe it but because they want to fit in. They learn quickly what happens to those who ask many questions and don't want to find themselves ostracized.

Anyway, for me the benefits of AA easily outweigh the personality conflicts I experienced early on.

Still, it's not difficult to understand why some people run from the rooms.
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