newby1961

Whose Responsibility?

"An A.A. group, as such, cannot take on all the personal problems of its members, let alone those of nonalcoholics in the world around us. The A.A. group is not, for example, a mediator of domestic problems, nor does it furnish personal financial aid to anyone.
"Though a member may sometimes be helped in such matters by his friends in A.A., the primary responsibility for the solutions of all his problems of living and growing rests squarely upon the individual himself. Should an A.A. group attempt this sort of help, its effectiveness and energies would be hopelessly dissapated.
"This is why sobriety -- freedom from alcohol -- through the teaching and practice of A.A.'s Twelve Steps, is the sole purpose of the group. If we don't stick to this cardinal principle, we shall almost certainly collapse. And if we collapse we cannot help anyone."

Letter, 1966

bbthumper

Id like to post this on the wall of every meeting room....

tomsteve

me,too. i get a lil discouraged when i hear,"make the group your higher power", usually shortly after reading,"no human power could relieve our alcoholism."

paul99

Yup! I agree. I have seen a few times the "group therapy" dynamic happen and it serves no one. I always imagine a newcomer strolling in and wondering if this is AA? The pre and after meetings are great places to discuss personal issues.

bbthumper

Yeah the group therapy thing just seems way off base of what 12 step recovery is about. THe other thing that the singleness of purpose is helpful with is taking some stress out of helping others. I think people get intimidated by the idea of working with a newcomer because they think they need to know the answers to all of life's problems. When really we only need to know one answer to one problem.
Any other help we can offer is based on experience in other life situations. If I havent experienced it tehn I have no need to worry about helping someone with it. Unless I am pointing them in the direction of someone who has the experience.

Db1105

That's not what The Big Book says. It says "(b) That probably no human power could have re* lieved our alcoholism." I've was taught "that probably" was a stepping stone on my spiritual journey believing that something other than my way could work. Be it a door knob, the sun, the moon, a collective group or anything else. I like so many other suffering alcoholics came into AA spiritually damaged. All it took was some beginning.

As I look back now, those two words " That Probably" was the kick in the ass that I needed to give the Higher Power thing a try.

All quotes from the first edition of The Big Book.

HappyDestiny3

I personally had to use the group to get me started.. And I thank the men that showed me that way.. I now have my own God, but its not for to ever discourage anyone's route to theirs..

And in doing that I was making AA the HP, just like its say in the 12x12 page. 27
I was told one simple rule.. You can make anyone or anything you HP to begin with, As long is it ain't you dummy.

I also the the line and truth of ..

The steps of AA save me from myself..

The traditions of AA save AA my way of thinking..

tomsteve

this is the program of AA we're talkin about right?please show me in we agnostics where it says a human or doorknob could be a higher power. show where anywhere in the 1st 164 pages it says anything to the nature. i may have missed it.

personally it wasnt a "probably", it was "i tried it. didnt work."

paul99

Where did the (public) notion of using a doorknob come from, anyway?

bbthumper

When I hear the doorknob or tree or the group thing as a higher power, I turn my thoughts to the line that says "he can choose any higher power he likes, provided it makes sense to him"
Thats the caveat. It has to make sense to me. So if a doorknob or a tree or whatever makes sense, then go for it. Personally, it doesnt make a lick of sense to me that a doorknob can keep me sober. But thats just me.

tomsteve

provided it makes sense to him.

and thats what i wonder about. what happens in the event the tree gets diseased and dies? what happens in the event the building the doorknob is in burns down? what happens if the group that is the higher power closes?
i prefer to help people find a power greater than themselves that isnt of this world, one with all power.

bbthumper

Right, I prefer the same thing, but I have to accept that the program gives the man to choose whatever he wants, again provided it makes sense to him. have yet to meet anyone who can give me a logical explanation as to how a door knob makes sense to them, but who knows? It might work for someone I suppose. As for me, God seems to be a more logical option.

paul99

I get that all...and understand what the BB says. I mean, I have yet to hear of someone I know use a tree stump, or lunchbox or crayon as a HP, but if so, that's his mojo to do so. If a bust of Don Knotts made out of margarine works for you, so be it, it's not my business. I guess I was wondering where the whole doorknob / lightbulb thing came from originally. It is a perception or notion that those not in AA kind of use to make light of the program, or at least have done historically.

bbthumper

I would venture to say that it came from well meaning folks who unknowingly watered down the program while trying to help people who were struggling with finding a higher power. IMO this is why the book stresses that only a willingness to believe in a higher power is necessary to make a start. We dont need to define a higher power.

paul99

Yup - that was my gut feeling.

HappyDestiny3

All I know is I didn't think I had any God.

And the men and women that were my HP(cause collectively they were way strong than I ) got me to help find it.. And no one can tell me that it didn't work..

And to me personally the 2 texts I carry everywhere are the BB and the 12x12.

Because Bill could take a look after 18 years, because as we know we only know a little more will be reviled.

HappyDestiny3

I have a guy at our home group that used the coffee pot for almost 2 years as his HP.. He has sinced passed on.. And that pot lasted nearly 40 years..

I loved his story, because even though it wasn't for me, it was for him. And he made the final great step.. The true 13 th step..

newby1961

I don't think it is in the actually item I think it is in the power behind it. Like with the tree the power behind making it grow and blossom and yes even die. Or a door knob it open even the heaviest of doors. Its not a black and white thing. So that is my story and I am sticking to it.

Applecrumble

When I walked into a meeting as a newcomer, boy did I feel an overwhelming powerful and positive energy generated in that room. Whether it was actually psychological, sociological and mortal or whether it was metaphysical, I chose to interpret it as a spiritual experience at that time-it filled that spiritual gap as I'd never felt anything quite like it before. I heard them talking about a Higher Power and I thought 'that'll do for me'. And it's that one feeling which has acted like a lifeline in the darkness ever since with my alcoholism, even though my concepts of my Higher Power may have changed or developed.

HappyDestiny3

Amen to that apple.. Thank for reading my mind..