Justfor1

[QUOTE=muvinon;3713238]What I notice is that some meetings which sound very strong in sharing, focus, etc., can prove to be places where people hide, really.

That is very true. It is not terrible difficult to sound good when commenting or even giving a 20min open lead. It is what happens outside the rooms in the real world. After attending hundreds of meetings, sober or not, people can begin to sound like a sober person with the lingo.

SixYearsSober

[QUOTE=Justfor1;3713476] Couldn't agree more with you both. Thanks.

miamifella

Thinking about this more, I wonder if it is possible to deal with the honesty issue in any other way but leading by example. I do not see how this could be brought up within a meeting, since you cannot discuss this without crosstalk referring to the shares of other people. I am not a fan of the "meeting after the meeting" where you go up to people to tell them what they are doing wrong. This is not something you can talk about in a business meeting.

I often felt that all the guidelines about how members are supposed to communicate were a bit ridiculous. But in this case, I think they lead one to change oneself rather than trying to change others....which is a good approach.

Boleo

Actually, that is not a bad way to look at it. I don't rely on the fellowship to keep me sober for a number of reasons;

1. If I put someone on a pedestal, they might let me down.

2. If I can't get to meetings for some reason (like my job sometimes demands), I have alternate ways of practicing my program.

3. For an alcoholic of my type, I need the whole Universe helping me. That's what spiritual experiences have done for me. I now live in a reciprocal Universe.

Try listening to some Don P. open talks found at:

XA-Speakers - The lights are on!

Tommyh

some of those folks will eventually
weed themselves out in time

lead by example
is a great idea

try to remember -good AA attracts
those who really want it

Cathy31

it's the fact that someone can sound great Wednesday and end up dead Thursday that worries me.


Sadly, this is life it s life in AA. You are powerless, let Go let God and do a 4th step on your resentment.

SixYearsSober

All due respect, but although I believe to the bottom of my soul that I'm powerless over alcohol, I also believe that by letting God guide me, I do have power. God gives me the power to effect change in my own life. . . and in other's lives, if I'm willing to be of service and the other person is open. I don't believe it's always best to shrug, say "oh well, it's out of my hands", write a piece of inventory, and move on. Sometimes, action and more action is called for.

Boleo

As a result of working the steps (mainly 9,10&11) I have come to understand the concept of "Spiritual Detachment". That is the idea that if I do my part, I can trust God to do his part. I can then (in some cases I must) detach from the outcome.

To an outside observer it looks a bit like apathy (Que Será, Será). However, I never detach from the responsibility nor do I discount my effort. It has taken a lot of first hand experience to learn to trust this concept. At first it was like a leap of blind faith. Without results, I never would have learned to trust it. Here is how Bill W described it in the 12&12:

"If I keep on turning my life and my will over to the care of Something or Somebody else, what will become of me? I'll look like the hole in the doughnut." This, of course, is the process by which instinct and logic always seek to bolster egotism, and so frustrate spiritual development. The trouble is that this kind of thinking takes no real account of the facts. And the facts seem to be these: The more we become willing to depend upon a Higher Power, the more independent we actually are. Therefore dependence, as A.A. practices it, is really a means of gaining true independence of the spirit.
Let's examine for a moment this idea of dependence at the level of everyday living. In this area it is startling to discover how dependent we really are, and how unconscious of that dependence. Every modern house has electric wiring carrying power and light to its interior. We are delighted with this dependence; our main hope is that nothing will ever cut off the supply of current. By so accepting our dependence upon this marvel of science, we find ourselves more independent personally. Not only are we more independent, we are even more comfortable and secure. Power flows just where it is needed. Silently and surely, electricity, that strange energy so few people understand, meets our simplest daily needs, and our most desperate ones, too. Ask the polio sufferer confined to an iron lung who depends with complete trust upon a motor to keep the breath of life in him."
(page 36)

SixYearsSober

Totally agree with everything you said, but as you said, you do have to "do your part", disagreeable as that may be sometimes. Thanks for the post.

2granddaughters

Originally Posted by 2granddaughters :
SYS, what does your sponsor say about this? The trusted oldtimers you respect, what do they say?



The reason I ask is nobody here knows the situation nor the people involved.
If I was one of the oldtimers who frequented your group then I would be able to offer an educated guess on what's happening. I don't know you either but I'm trying to understand. I'm sober 23 yrs and my intuition is about 50/50. My wife corrects my 50% faulty conclusions so in the end I'm OK

Take care.

All the best.

Bob R

Mark75

Strength... not the same as power. Integrity, being true to ourselves and others, all that...

A bad outcome? Did I do my best with information and resources available to me?

If the answer is yes, then I let myself off the hook. Perhaps there was a lesson to be learned, something that will strengthen my ability to help, or know better when I cannot, help... And that I can grow... because my best can always be better.

If the answer is no ... How could I have done my best? Did I not pay attention? Was I afraid? Did I neglect? How can I do better next time?

Where is God in all of this? Did I let Him in? What can I do better so I can do His work?

These are the ways that I keep myself from going insane.