Something bothering me. What to do?
 

Have my book study with my sponsor tonight so I plan on getting his take on this as well, but I respect y'alls' input so I figured I'd throw this out there.

Been talking to a newcomer at a particular meeting over the past few weeks. He seems to be doing great. Has his Big Book with him wherever he goes, doesnt speak outside of his own experience, sticks around after meetings, making friends etc. He got himself a sponsor a couple weeks ago. Good stuff.

I was talking to him last night and asked how things were going with his sponsor. His response "well he kinda made himself my sponsor. Its going alright. I do A LOT of listening." I asked where they were with step work and he said that they haven't even begun to talk about the steps. He seemed upset and talked about how willing and ready he was to do the work. My suggestion to him was to ask his sponsor when they were going to get busy with the step work. He didnt seem very confident in doing this. Not sure if he will or not. I told him to please call me if he wasnt getting anywhere and wanted to get into the work.

I know his sponsor. Nice guy. Sober a while, but Ive never heard him talk about step work in any of his comments. He talks about heroin addiction more often than alcoholism in the meetings where they allow it. Now, I am not fit to be a judge, although my ego tells me otherwise sometimes, but this is bugging the heck out of me. This new guy is wanting to do the work and getting nowhere.

So my question is am I out of line if I approach his sponsor and let him know that we talked, that he wants to work the steps, and ask "what are you waiting for?" I dont feel right taking the sidelines and waiting to see what happens.

Perfect, IMO.... Anything more might be construed as promotion.

If you can take him on (new guy), do that.
I wouldn't talk to the other guy about it directly.
Good luck.

I see no problem talking with him. He may not know what he should do. You talking to him might point him in the right direction but don't be his caretaker. Make suggestions and then back out of it and let him do the work. You suggested to him to talk to his sponsor about the step work. Let it go at that. The heroin subject, I think will take care of itself. Identifying with one another is what works. Either he'll identify or he won't.

I used to report a lot of accurate information like that to my sponsor, as did my sponsees to me. Tradition breakers, slow step workers, people talking about choosing that must not be real alkies, you name it we reported you! That doesn't make one very popular or effective in AA I have found. The first one, popularity, doesn't matter anyway, the second however, effectiveness, does.

The bottom line: be the best example of AA I can be, I had to stop playing God, with EVERYTHING, including AA. Keep sharing your experience, the truth is inexorable. If the guy continues to not take the steps and he gets in enough pain chances are he's probably headed your direction. I used to start those conversations with other's sponsors. I had the best of intentions too. I can't think of one time it didn't go sour. I know a sponsee of mine was even threatened physically after one.

Keep shining in those meetings. Attraction rather than promotion.

IMO

I agree with both mark and anne , just ask him if he would rather work with you. And leave the other guy out of it. Let that newcomer choose. :)

Take it easy , bb and catch you at a meeting soon. :)

They're both sober and going to meetings, what's the problem?

It has been said that men often mistake the limits of their field of vision for the limits of possibility. This is ever so clear in AA where 90% of the folks you meet seem to firmly believe that they have the monopoly on staying sober and having a good life and nobody could possibly have the same results without doing precisely whatever it is they're doing. This is simple, juvinile, egocentric, and possibly narcicistic. to the extreme.

How about try some attraction rather than promotion. If your step meeting is in the meeting schedule and what you are doing seems appealing he will probably investigate it with or without his sponsor.

How about instead of condescending rubbish like "when are you going to get into the work" or "how quick do you want to feel better?", you treat AA like a fellowship (a gathering of equals) and say things like "you're doing great!", "aren't you glad you didn't wake up hung over today?", or "hey, we're going out for coffee after the meeting and would love to have you come along". (Not implying you're doing one and not the other, just throwing out the kind of ego feeding that helps nobody vs. encouragement, attraction, and inclusion).

What bothers me is the fact that this guy wants to work the steps and his sponsor isnt getting there. He has read the book. Identifies with our COMMON problem and is interested in our COMMON solution. I am one of many who knows and can take another person to that solution. It is a matter of responsibility. AA is a program of recovery, the end result of which is a spiritual awakening. We are given the power to help people. I see nothing condescending about suggesting that this guy seeks help elsewhere. Im not going to stand by and watch untreated alcoholism take its course while saying things like "you're doing great" when this guy wants the solution that recovered members of AA carry.

Hey thumper, if it bothers you that much, you talk to this guys sponsor instead of going behind his back. Sometimes I can come across like I'm doing what is best but who am I to interfere in someon else's program? Who am I to be the judge of who's working a good honest program and who isn't? If you want to teach this guy something, teach him how to grow a pair and talk to is sponsor himself, by staying out of it and minding your own business. Nobody that I know of has ever been elected to the position of sobriety watch. I have enough trouble keeping myself in line. Until/unless you become this guys sponsor, you don't have a sayso, and if that happens it'll be God's will not yours.:herewego

Way to take this other guy's inventory AND minimize him staying sober at the same time! Plenty of folks have thrown this rubbish at me trying to use my back as a rung on their way up the self esteem ladder. Naught for nothing but people trying to bully me with lines like that are a big reason I've avoided going anywhere near steps or step meetings.

My friends encourage me, and as far as everyone OUTSIDE AA in my life who cares about me is concerned I am doing great. They are absolutely thrilled that I'm not getting drunk anymore. Furthermore I'm rather delighted with the person I am when I'm not funneling alcohol into my gullet.

In fact the only people I ever encountered who seem to have a problem with me not drinking anymore are some bullies in AA meetings who feel the way in which I go about not drinking today isn't quite good enough for them.


Well then what's holding him back from coming to your step meeting and jumping on board with whatever it is you want him to do?

IMO if you're using the steps to worry about what OTHER PEOPLE are and are not doing you're doing it way wrong. I have complete confidence that if your attitude, friendship, and "solution" looks appealing to this fellow, he'll come along of his own accord.

I've been around enough time and enough places to see a lot of men and women taking a lot of different roads and all winding up in roughly the same place. I'm no where near conceited enough to believe that I know what someone else does or doesn't "need" to stay sober and have a good life. I'm am quite convinced; however, that anyone looking will find their own answers in AA.

Yeah, it seems like what the sponsor is doing (or not doing) is not to your liking, so, talk with the man. You say you know him a bit. Mention to him his sponsee has talked informally with you, and the result is you're bothered, and you want to work this out best you can.

Deal with the source. The sponsee is actually just playing both sides when confiding in you and not speaking directly to his sponsor. Get yourself out of that dilemma by talking with the sponsor. You're already involved, so why not finish it?

You're a good honest man, bbthumper. Don't sweat this. Soon enough it will all be in the past. Do your duty to the sponsor, and then forget about it.

Good luck. Great question, btw.

Yeah, works for me too. Well said.

Thanks, Robby and everyone. I think I may speak to the sponsor. We'll see what my sponsor has to say first. I have been known to get wrapped up in trying to deliver a message rather than carry it. Looks liek that is the case once again.

I just want to say, Remember how green you all were when you joined AA.
I wish I knew then what I know now.
I made a lot of mistakes.
My judgement was bad.
I wish BB was there to give me a heads up about things.
I could have easily dropped out.
I didn't, thankfully.

As long as no one is hurt or defamed, absolutely please talk to newcomers if they tend to be straying off the cliff.

I'll take anyone through the steps. Anyone. Men, women, other peoples sponsees, no ones sponsees. I keep a couple of notebooks in my vehicles just for that purpose. I don't give a **** if I'm stepping on someones toes. I don't. I have had people pissed at me. I have been sent messages. I don't care if they dump their sponsor and have me sponsor them. I don't care if they work the steps with me and they keep their old sponsor. Getting the new guy through the steps is what we do here. If we fail at that the new guys failure is our fault.

This is a blood sport. Don't ever forget that.

I am kind of in agreement w/ BadCompany here. My situation was this: I was sober off and on for 20 yrs but hand never REALLY worked thru the steps until 2 yrs ago...so I had untreated alcoholism. I would go to meetings, I would share at meetings and I would relapse continually because of all the GARBAGE I was carrying around in my heart. Fear, resentments, anger, amends to be made, guilt, depression, anxiety, etc... I needed the steps, I needed the solution!!

Finally a gal sat down w/ me and helped me to work thru the steps QUICKLY and viola.....I recovered! She took the time once a week for about 8 weeks to work w/ me and gave me lots of homework. I am forever grateful for dear "Maria" for being there and working w/ me. I was kind of embarressed at times cuz she knew everything, but even more grateful that she helped me take it to my HP and see my part in it (resentments) and let it go... :)

Much the same sir, do we as recovered alcoholics have time to tippy toe around people to guide a newcomer towards a vital power.?...in my experience some are gone and buried within a blink of an eye..

The situation you describe happens a lot here....although, i would say, often the story is not quite as the newcomer describes.

In my experience...still suffering alcoholics sometimes have "sponsors"..are sometimes years dry....but have know idea how too break out of that gnawing
malady inside...

Amen, many times over.

Right, attraction rather than promotion comes from tradition 11, in reference to our public relations policy, which can be very different from what we do within Alcoholics Anonymous.

The chapter in the Big Book called Working With Others does a very good job at identifying strategies that collective experience has proven to be generally very effective when trying to help a new prospect. There is an emphasis on approach, which was exactly what the founders practiced themselves by actively going out to find others to help. We can't make them do it, and sometimes we need to lay down the invitation and leave it until the willingness on their part is there (alcohol especially is the great persuader), but it sure sounds like this newcomer is thirsting for the solution now.

I have had so many amazing experiences already when working with others and watching this incredible program work for them before my eyes, but one of the biggest obstacles I can face in looking for new proteges is the population within the rooms that will try to convince newcomers that middle of the road solutions are the AA way forward, which long term I see failing the vast majority of those alcoholic newcomers that try that path. Left untreated or undertreated, we don't know how large or small that window of grace is going to be before the alcoholic mind returns and they drink again.

Although I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, perhaps many times it's easier to try to convince the newcomer from a clean slate how it makes sense to get plugged into the work without delay than to try to convince someone who has been around awhile on what can at times be a very different understanding of what this program is about.


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Tradition 11 (Short form) — Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

Tradition 11 (Long form) — Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think A.A. ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.

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Big Book quotes from the 1st edition