God = Group of drunks.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
So how exactly can I use this group of drunks as my higher power?"
Sounds like sponsee has taken her will back.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I have a sugesstion that has worked for a few guys i have sponsored
I saw a small section in how it works that helped
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
when i was new,i was told i could set aside any old ideas of a hp or God etc and start fresh from nothing
just set those old ideas aside and look for a practical way for me to find a hp.I asked,whoever or whatever out there,to keep me sober
well,it worked
that was my starting point and it grew from there
I also have sponsored a few guys who wrote down all or any old ideas they had,threw it away,and write down on paper any new ideas they liked about a possible HP.You know,the good stuff like
love,compassion,forgiveness,etc
that was the attributes of their new experimental HP
after a while they realized it worked,and that process allowed them to find a practical starting point for them on their faith`s journey
the stumbling block for myself and those guys was our old ideas
my mind was slammed shut
I had to open it just a little
those old ideas we may have of a HP are usually the same judging from my experience working with guys
a example of old ideas that don`t work
mean,unforgiving
don`t like me
harsh
likes others better
judgmental
etc
I saw a small section in how it works that helped
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
when i was new,i was told i could set aside any old ideas of a hp or God etc and start fresh from nothing
just set those old ideas aside and look for a practical way for me to find a hp.I asked,whoever or whatever out there,to keep me sober
well,it worked
that was my starting point and it grew from there
I also have sponsored a few guys who wrote down all or any old ideas they had,threw it away,and write down on paper any new ideas they liked about a possible HP.You know,the good stuff like
love,compassion,forgiveness,etc
that was the attributes of their new experimental HP
after a while they realized it worked,and that process allowed them to find a practical starting point for them on their faith`s journey
the stumbling block for myself and those guys was our old ideas
my mind was slammed shut
I had to open it just a little
those old ideas we may have of a HP are usually the same judging from my experience working with guys
a example of old ideas that don`t work
mean,unforgiving
don`t like me
harsh
likes others better
judgmental
etc
Originally Posted by legna 
Hello all. A bit of background to put my question into perspective: I am an alcoholic and a member of AA. I have been continuously sober now for a bit over twenty years. I am also an atheist. In the early days, this gave me a fair bit of difficulty but over the years I've been able to reconcile many of the sticking points I once had and allowed me to move past them.
How I did so has been gradual and had I not had so low a bottom and such a desperate condition, I don't suspect that I would have stuck around to have found the solution. As many would agree, the bottom in AA has gradually risen. People come in today who we never would have seen in the early days of this program and it has been my observation that many lack the desperation necessary to face themselves. I originally came into the program in 1978 (seven years dry followed by a seven year slip) and the idea of someone going more than a couple of months without doing a fourth and fifth step was unheard of - today it is not unusual to have people with four or five years being able to stay dry on meetings alone... not something I can relate to.
Anywho, to my question: In working with newcomers I've come across some lately who are, at the very least, agnostic and in some cases, atheist. More than a few, I suspect, are simply angry at the God of their understanding and will come around in time - others truly don't believe. I'm unsure of how to work with these folks.
We've all heard that we can choose a higher power of our own understanding and agnostic members have been told for decades that they can choose Group Of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction or any other of a long list of good intentioned suggestions. Almost in the same breathe though, you hear members telling newcomers that they need to 'turn it over' to that power greater than themselves.
Recently, an atheist newcomer, who I believe is sincere in her desire to quit drinking but acting out of frustration, dropped all he bills into the basket as the seventh tradition went around. She was frustrated and trying to make a point. What she said was this:
"Look, I know you all aren't going to pay my bills for me, but I really don't know what to do. You say that I can choose any HP I want and I've chosen the group - ya'll have stayed sober and I haven't been able to on my own so clearly you folks have something I want. Ya'll have told me that the group is a fine choice and that many have done so before me. But then, when I come to you with my problems you tell me don't drink, come to meetings and ask my hp for help. Well I've got 23 days without a drink, have been to 52 meetings and ya'll are my higher power. Ya'll ain't going to pay my bills, you don't want me doing the fifth step with the group...which I don't really want to do either but I would if it'd keep me from picking up a drink, ya'll aren't going to remove my shortcomings and you don't want me praying to you.
So how exactly can I use this group of drunks as my higher power?"
Thirty four years in the program and an atheist and really, I have no idea what to tell this young woman. How I did it will not work for her - and I don't see any alternatives. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
How I did so has been gradual and had I not had so low a bottom and such a desperate condition, I don't suspect that I would have stuck around to have found the solution. As many would agree, the bottom in AA has gradually risen. People come in today who we never would have seen in the early days of this program and it has been my observation that many lack the desperation necessary to face themselves. I originally came into the program in 1978 (seven years dry followed by a seven year slip) and the idea of someone going more than a couple of months without doing a fourth and fifth step was unheard of - today it is not unusual to have people with four or five years being able to stay dry on meetings alone... not something I can relate to.
Anywho, to my question: In working with newcomers I've come across some lately who are, at the very least, agnostic and in some cases, atheist. More than a few, I suspect, are simply angry at the God of their understanding and will come around in time - others truly don't believe. I'm unsure of how to work with these folks.
We've all heard that we can choose a higher power of our own understanding and agnostic members have been told for decades that they can choose Group Of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction or any other of a long list of good intentioned suggestions. Almost in the same breathe though, you hear members telling newcomers that they need to 'turn it over' to that power greater than themselves.
Recently, an atheist newcomer, who I believe is sincere in her desire to quit drinking but acting out of frustration, dropped all he bills into the basket as the seventh tradition went around. She was frustrated and trying to make a point. What she said was this:
"Look, I know you all aren't going to pay my bills for me, but I really don't know what to do. You say that I can choose any HP I want and I've chosen the group - ya'll have stayed sober and I haven't been able to on my own so clearly you folks have something I want. Ya'll have told me that the group is a fine choice and that many have done so before me. But then, when I come to you with my problems you tell me don't drink, come to meetings and ask my hp for help. Well I've got 23 days without a drink, have been to 52 meetings and ya'll are my higher power. Ya'll ain't going to pay my bills, you don't want me doing the fifth step with the group...which I don't really want to do either but I would if it'd keep me from picking up a drink, ya'll aren't going to remove my shortcomings and you don't want me praying to you.
So how exactly can I use this group of drunks as my higher power?"
Thirty four years in the program and an atheist and really, I have no idea what to tell this young woman. How I did it will not work for her - and I don't see any alternatives. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
ps
another thing i have found is the HP can be the life force within us all,and when we come together,it get`s more powerful in the rooms.I know a few others who believe that is their HP
another thing i have found is the HP can be the life force within us all,and when we come together,it get`s more powerful in the rooms.I know a few others who believe that is their HP
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Tell her to have an open mind and that the most important thing right now is to stay sober. She doesnt need to do anything aboutGOD Higher Power right away.
Earthworm
Originally Posted by legna
Hello all. A bit of background to put my question into perspective: I am an alcoholic and a member of AA. I have been continuously sober now for a bit over twenty years. I am also an atheist. In the early days, this gave me a fair bit of difficulty but over the years I've been able to reconcile many of the sticking points I once had and allowed me to move past them.
How I did so has been gradual and had I not had so low a bottom and such a desperate condition, I don't suspect that I would have stuck around to have found the solution. As many would agree, the bottom in AA has gradually risen. People come in today who we never would have seen in the early days of this program and it has been my observation that many lack the desperation necessary to face themselves. I originally came into the program in 1978 (seven years dry followed by a seven year slip) and the idea of someone going more than a couple of months without doing a fourth and fifth step was unheard of - today it is not unusual to have people with four or five years being able to stay dry on meetings alone... not something I can relate to.
Anywho, to my question: In working with newcomers I've come across some lately who are, at the very least, agnostic and in some cases, atheist. More than a few, I suspect, are simply angry at the God of their understanding and will come around in time - others truly don't believe. I'm unsure of how to work with these folks.
We've all heard that we can choose a higher power of our own understanding and agnostic members have been told for decades that they can choose Group Of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction or any other of a long list of good intentioned suggestions. Almost in the same breathe though, you hear members telling newcomers that they need to 'turn it over' to that power greater than themselves.
Recently, an atheist newcomer, who I believe is sincere in her desire to quit drinking but acting out of frustration, dropped all he bills into the basket as the seventh tradition went around. She was frustrated and trying to make a point. What she said was this:
"Look, I know you all aren't going to pay my bills for me, but I really don't know what to do. You say that I can choose any HP I want and I've chosen the group - ya'll have stayed sober and I haven't been able to on my own so clearly you folks have something I want. Ya'll have told me that the group is a fine choice and that many have done so before me. But then, when I come to you with my problems you tell me don't drink, come to meetings and ask my hp for help. Well I've got 23 days without a drink, have been to 52 meetings and ya'll are my higher power. Ya'll ain't going to pay my bills, you don't want me doing the fifth step with the group...which I don't really want to do either but I would if it'd keep me from picking up a drink, ya'll aren't going to remove my shortcomings and you don't want me praying to you.
So how exactly can I use this group of drunks as my higher power?"
Thirty four years in the program and an atheist and really, I have no idea what to tell this young woman. How I did it will not work for her - and I don't see any alternatives. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
How I did so has been gradual and had I not had so low a bottom and such a desperate condition, I don't suspect that I would have stuck around to have found the solution. As many would agree, the bottom in AA has gradually risen. People come in today who we never would have seen in the early days of this program and it has been my observation that many lack the desperation necessary to face themselves. I originally came into the program in 1978 (seven years dry followed by a seven year slip) and the idea of someone going more than a couple of months without doing a fourth and fifth step was unheard of - today it is not unusual to have people with four or five years being able to stay dry on meetings alone... not something I can relate to.
Anywho, to my question: In working with newcomers I've come across some lately who are, at the very least, agnostic and in some cases, atheist. More than a few, I suspect, are simply angry at the God of their understanding and will come around in time - others truly don't believe. I'm unsure of how to work with these folks.
We've all heard that we can choose a higher power of our own understanding and agnostic members have been told for decades that they can choose Group Of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction or any other of a long list of good intentioned suggestions. Almost in the same breathe though, you hear members telling newcomers that they need to 'turn it over' to that power greater than themselves.
Recently, an atheist newcomer, who I believe is sincere in her desire to quit drinking but acting out of frustration, dropped all he bills into the basket as the seventh tradition went around. She was frustrated and trying to make a point. What she said was this:
"Look, I know you all aren't going to pay my bills for me, but I really don't know what to do. You say that I can choose any HP I want and I've chosen the group - ya'll have stayed sober and I haven't been able to on my own so clearly you folks have something I want. Ya'll have told me that the group is a fine choice and that many have done so before me. But then, when I come to you with my problems you tell me don't drink, come to meetings and ask my hp for help. Well I've got 23 days without a drink, have been to 52 meetings and ya'll are my higher power. Ya'll ain't going to pay my bills, you don't want me doing the fifth step with the group...which I don't really want to do either but I would if it'd keep me from picking up a drink, ya'll aren't going to remove my shortcomings and you don't want me praying to you.
So how exactly can I use this group of drunks as my higher power?"
Thirty four years in the program and an atheist and really, I have no idea what to tell this young woman. How I did it will not work for her - and I don't see any alternatives. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
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