White Knuckle Sobriety
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
White Knuckle Sobriety
I don't think my short times of sobriety have ever been anything more than this. Some people call it a dry drunk, which gets my goard because the words don't make sense to me, how can I be dry and drunk? A dry ahole is more accurate for me.
I'm going to try these steps again, from the very beginning. I'm not going to rush it this time, and I'm going to be as thorough as possible. I can't give up, because booze doesn't work anymore in my life. The problems that my choice to drink have caused in my life far outweigh any enjoyment I may derive from having a buzz. But it seems that I should be grateful for not drinking tonight, and I'm not. I'm bored stiff, we have no AA meetings at night on Friday in this town, and I live alone, so I'm here staring at this computer screen and going nuts. And I don't trust myself enough to drive anywhere out of town tonight, because there's too much temptation in between. Too many bars, casinos, restaurants with booze, it's just dangerous to venture out tonight.
Here's my real problem. Even after going to rehab, many meetings, through a couple sponsors, I still think the same. I've tried to do the steps right, then someone tells me I didn't do them right, and that's my problem, and I get frustrated thinking that this is really p&ssing me off. Then I rebell again, and say to h&ll with it and get plastered again. I've gotten so ticked a couple times that I've taken the bb out and tossed it in the trash, only then to have to get another.
Why am I so stubborn and dense? Why can't I get this? Actually I'm not a violent man, but I sure feel like screaming tonight.
OK, nuff self-pity.
I'm going to try these steps again, from the very beginning. I'm not going to rush it this time, and I'm going to be as thorough as possible. I can't give up, because booze doesn't work anymore in my life. The problems that my choice to drink have caused in my life far outweigh any enjoyment I may derive from having a buzz. But it seems that I should be grateful for not drinking tonight, and I'm not. I'm bored stiff, we have no AA meetings at night on Friday in this town, and I live alone, so I'm here staring at this computer screen and going nuts. And I don't trust myself enough to drive anywhere out of town tonight, because there's too much temptation in between. Too many bars, casinos, restaurants with booze, it's just dangerous to venture out tonight.
Here's my real problem. Even after going to rehab, many meetings, through a couple sponsors, I still think the same. I've tried to do the steps right, then someone tells me I didn't do them right, and that's my problem, and I get frustrated thinking that this is really p&ssing me off. Then I rebell again, and say to h&ll with it and get plastered again. I've gotten so ticked a couple times that I've taken the bb out and tossed it in the trash, only then to have to get another.
Why am I so stubborn and dense? Why can't I get this? Actually I'm not a violent man, but I sure feel like screaming tonight.
OK, nuff self-pity.
Being Me for the first time
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wishek, North Dakota
Posts: 1,160
fire , theres a recovery meeting on fri nites in the chat room , at 9 est ,, its past that now .. but you can go into chat and talk with others who are like you bored and trying to stay sober , they dont bite .. its lil quiet in there but its something to concider if your bored .. huggles and good deal on not going out .. Endzy
Being Me for the first time
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wishek, North Dakota
Posts: 1,160
Ps .. ill add this .. theres no wrong way to do the steps , most will do them many times thu there recovery yrs , and each time its differant then the 1st , dont let that be a downer for you , listen to what your sponcer says and dont share it with others , its tween you and your sponcer and if you think its good then it is , but then again if ya did um right .. it should be workin for you , just something to ponder 
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
Well i tell you what,......its bloody nice to see you here..
I dont have the answers to why.....unlike the people you have come across.
I dont like the term dry drunk anyhow...........your either in......or out.
People have had the displeasure of having to be around me when i put the drink down and used my willpower not to pick-up another....it aint pretty..
So i arrive at the big book.....no out of shear delight i tell yer.
id used up my back doors.....all of them.........i had no other bolt hole to run down.
If you are gonna go through the steps again......maybe you could post your experience here.......and/or id be happy to converse with you through pm.
whatever helps.............take care...................shaun.
I dont have the answers to why.....unlike the people you have come across.
I dont like the term dry drunk anyhow...........your either in......or out.
People have had the displeasure of having to be around me when i put the drink down and used my willpower not to pick-up another....it aint pretty..
So i arrive at the big book.....no out of shear delight i tell yer.
id used up my back doors.....all of them.........i had no other bolt hole to run down.
If you are gonna go through the steps again......maybe you could post your experience here.......and/or id be happy to converse with you through pm.
whatever helps.............take care...................shaun.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Thanks shaun and endzoner,
I think alot of my confusion is due to the different methods used to do the steps.
As an example, when I was in rehab, all of the steps were covered in separate booklets, and you had to write out all kinds of stuff to cover each step. The first step was designed to write out all the negative consequences you experienced during your drinking days, to show you how unmanageable your life became, .... It was a life story.
OK, then I spoke with my temp sonsor and he asked, do you feel you're powerless over alcohol and your life is unmanageable? I said yes and he said, well you've done the first step, now do you believe that God can restore you to sanity? Again, I said yes and he said, well that's step two. We then prayed the third step prayer and he told me afterwards to begin immediately on my fourth step. Thiis all happened in about an hour. What makes it confusing is when I sit in meetings and someone says it took them a year to do their first step. I wonder how that can be? I just seem to get all mixed up on this stuff, and I'm really not a dense man, maybe each person has to find their own way and go at thier own pace, but then again that goes against some who say "How long do you want to be sick?"
As an alcoholic, I admit I like the easier, softer way, but here lately I've been bashing my head into concrete walls and my brains are turning to mush.
Well, back to step one.
I think alot of my confusion is due to the different methods used to do the steps.
As an example, when I was in rehab, all of the steps were covered in separate booklets, and you had to write out all kinds of stuff to cover each step. The first step was designed to write out all the negative consequences you experienced during your drinking days, to show you how unmanageable your life became, .... It was a life story.
OK, then I spoke with my temp sonsor and he asked, do you feel you're powerless over alcohol and your life is unmanageable? I said yes and he said, well you've done the first step, now do you believe that God can restore you to sanity? Again, I said yes and he said, well that's step two. We then prayed the third step prayer and he told me afterwards to begin immediately on my fourth step. Thiis all happened in about an hour. What makes it confusing is when I sit in meetings and someone says it took them a year to do their first step. I wonder how that can be? I just seem to get all mixed up on this stuff, and I'm really not a dense man, maybe each person has to find their own way and go at thier own pace, but then again that goes against some who say "How long do you want to be sick?"
As an alcoholic, I admit I like the easier, softer way, but here lately I've been bashing my head into concrete walls and my brains are turning to mush.
Well, back to step one.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 39
I found step three a hard one. I am an intelligent, educated, and erudite fellow who prays but is an agnostic. The idea of turning my will and my life over to some Santa in the sky was difficult to fathom. For 2 years I was in and out of AA, I would put together some "white knuckle sobriety" but inevitably I would drunk again. I had not surrendered completely, despite near fatal car accidents that put my in a coma, jail, psych wards, suicide attempts etc.
At some point I completely let go. By surrendering my will I gained so much, and staying sober became "easy". It required constant work, but the ache/obsession to drink was gone. I immersed myself in AA, I made AA friends, joined AA baseball teams (and I suck at it), I went for coffee with AA people at every opportunity. A put AA before everything, even my job. I told my boss I could not work certain nights late because I had prior commitments. I shunned anything and everything that could get me drunk. Before the obsession was lifted if I had a craving I started calling every AA member I knew.
I think making AA my life helped. It may seem extreme but my life was on the line. I had come close to dying several times, and I now wanted to live.
At some point I completely let go. By surrendering my will I gained so much, and staying sober became "easy". It required constant work, but the ache/obsession to drink was gone. I immersed myself in AA, I made AA friends, joined AA baseball teams (and I suck at it), I went for coffee with AA people at every opportunity. A put AA before everything, even my job. I told my boss I could not work certain nights late because I had prior commitments. I shunned anything and everything that could get me drunk. Before the obsession was lifted if I had a craving I started calling every AA member I knew.
I think making AA my life helped. It may seem extreme but my life was on the line. I had come close to dying several times, and I now wanted to live.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: far far from home
Posts: 373
Here's my real problem. Even after going to rehab, many meetings, through a couple sponsors, I still think the same. I've tried to do the steps right, then someone tells me I didn't do them right, and that's my problem, and I get frustrated thinking that this is really p&ssing me off. Then I rebell again, and say to h&ll with it and get plastered again. I've gotten so ticked a couple times that I've taken the bb out and tossed it in the trash, only then to have to get another.
What worked for me was to get just one sponsor and go to him. Now, my particular experience is that I asked him after 10 months of sober observation of him in AA. (No, I am not trying to hurt the OP by telling him to wait, this is my experience) Actually I plotted how to kill my sponsor for 4 months because he always talked about the BB and I could not stand him, then I spent 4 months thinking "maybe this guy is on to something" and then I worked up the courage to ask him to sponsor me for another 2 months.
This is just my experience, not a reccomendation. Probably a good idea to get a sponsor ASAP. But what you may want to look at is what I have done now for a year and half. I have one sponsor that guided me through the steps and who I ask about things in AA to. No one else, so I get no mixed messages. That is the reason that I highlighted your comment in bold, only my sponsor talks to me about how I am doing step work in AA, more specifically he is the only one I listen to.
And one other thing, my problem is not that people or things **** me off, my real problem is a drink of booze. Everything else is just a situation.
And yours was not a post of self pity, it was a damn good one telling where your at. If no one knows where your at then they cannot help. And there may be someone out there who feels like you do but doesn't feel like they can post, you may have just spoked for them and helped them out. And look, trucker and endzoner stuck their hands right out to you with an offer to talk and hrhxtc offered his experience.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Glad to see you here as well, Dallas.
That notion that you keep making the choice the drink tells me that you haven't you haven't grasped Step 1. You have the delusion that you are in control of your drinking, even if you are drinking against your will.
Yes, that sounds like I'm telling you that you haven't done it right. I'm not.
I'm saying it's more difficult and way more subtle than just a rote going through the motions. There needs to be the experience of surrender. Of knowing, in my heart, that I am not in control.
It's one of the downsides of the lack of unity in AA. I walk into a meeting, and 25 people have 25 different ways of doing the Steps. And everyone shares, 'this is what I did.' It's confusing.
And then there are the directions laid out in the BB. They are specific and precise, and they are the things the first AA members did. They are the things I did, and they are the things that the guy sitting next to me did.
I don't think everyone needs to do the Steps in exactly the same way. In fact, nobody does them exactly the same way. But the closer I stay to those directions from the book, the closer are my results to the results described in the book.
That's been my experience over and over with new guys.
This thing doesn't have to be so complicated. If worksheets and stuff work for you, I have no problem with that. But if it's not working, find someone who can show you the directions that AAs have followed since before they were even written down.
That notion that you keep making the choice the drink tells me that you haven't you haven't grasped Step 1. You have the delusion that you are in control of your drinking, even if you are drinking against your will.
Yes, that sounds like I'm telling you that you haven't done it right. I'm not.
I'm saying it's more difficult and way more subtle than just a rote going through the motions. There needs to be the experience of surrender. Of knowing, in my heart, that I am not in control.
Originally Posted by firestorm090 
I've tried to do the steps right, then someone tells me I didn't do them right,.
And then there are the directions laid out in the BB. They are specific and precise, and they are the things the first AA members did. They are the things I did, and they are the things that the guy sitting next to me did.
I don't think everyone needs to do the Steps in exactly the same way. In fact, nobody does them exactly the same way. But the closer I stay to those directions from the book, the closer are my results to the results described in the book.
That's been my experience over and over with new guys.
This thing doesn't have to be so complicated. If worksheets and stuff work for you, I have no problem with that. But if it's not working, find someone who can show you the directions that AAs have followed since before they were even written down.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
It my perception that alcoholics dont have choices.....problem drinkers have choices......the power remains for them to choose not to drink.
i come across newcomers with that perception that powerless means once they take the alcohol then and only then, they become powerless
this can be cemented by hearing lots of "just dont drink"...
so why do some drinkers continue to drink....the alcoholic..even when he is stone cold sober........i did.
i had loads of evidence of what happens when i drink.....i become the whirlwind.
if i have a mental obssesion when i dont drink.....and i have a strange allergy to booze when i do drink.......thats a pretty shafted position to be in dont you think?........Finally pushed into a corner and nailed to the wall be alcoholism.
for me.......that position was a death trap.......i wished for the end...truly
so there you have it.........the full width.......powerless with it.......powerless without it and doomed to attempt it again.
that a fatal malady right......But what if there was something...that had limitless power and you could tap into it...
something that would only be too happy to help....
put away your piles of step working guides and read the dotors opinion and beyond.
step one is a realization not a academic exercise.
i come across newcomers with that perception that powerless means once they take the alcohol then and only then, they become powerless
this can be cemented by hearing lots of "just dont drink"...
so why do some drinkers continue to drink....the alcoholic..even when he is stone cold sober........i did.
i had loads of evidence of what happens when i drink.....i become the whirlwind.
if i have a mental obssesion when i dont drink.....and i have a strange allergy to booze when i do drink.......thats a pretty shafted position to be in dont you think?........Finally pushed into a corner and nailed to the wall be alcoholism.
for me.......that position was a death trap.......i wished for the end...truly
so there you have it.........the full width.......powerless with it.......powerless without it and doomed to attempt it again.
that a fatal malady right......But what if there was something...that had limitless power and you could tap into it...
something that would only be too happy to help....
put away your piles of step working guides and read the dotors opinion and beyond.
step one is a realization not a academic exercise.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Chapter 7 is where you can find those directions Dallas
I too strongly suggest.......find a man willing to sit
down with you ...read and discuss the solution....
I never use the term "Dry Drunk" ..
.but if anyone said I was one...
Bettter a dry than a wet one".....would be my retort.
All my best
I too strongly suggest.......find a man willing to sit
down with you ...read and discuss the solution....
I never use the term "Dry Drunk" ..
.but if anyone said I was one...
Bettter a dry than a wet one".....would be my retort.
All my best
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Thanks everyone for your help. This is really helping me understand better where I'm off the mark.
Surrender is tough stuff for guys like me. However, my way of bashing my head in has made me willing and I know I'm going to get this. I'm not gonna stop till I do get this. I've never really been a joiner, but what choice do I have today. Getting to today has been tough, getting to the point where my sobriety has become my #1 priority has taken me years of playing around with fire. I'm burnt to a crisp and my emotions lie in ashes at my feet, while my soul seems to have left the building.
Surrender is tough stuff for guys like me. However, my way of bashing my head in has made me willing and I know I'm going to get this. I'm not gonna stop till I do get this. I've never really been a joiner, but what choice do I have today. Getting to today has been tough, getting to the point where my sobriety has become my #1 priority has taken me years of playing around with fire. I'm burnt to a crisp and my emotions lie in ashes at my feet, while my soul seems to have left the building.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I hear ya, Dallas,
I didn't drink (YET), but I got miserable enough to get willing.
I never met anyone who thought the Steps looked like fun and a great idea, so let's do it. I think we're all forced. One way or another.
I didn't drink (YET), but I got miserable enough to get willing.
I never met anyone who thought the Steps looked like fun and a great idea, so let's do it. I think we're all forced. One way or another.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
I kinda took the steps as some type of correspondence course, if it sounded good, I should pass the course and get an "A" for my efforts. Well, at least a "B".
When you talk about surrender, as I understand it now, you're talking about changing the very foundation of my thinking, and that's where I trip up. I can logically say I surrender, but how do you get that down deep into your gut? How do you change a warped alcohol sodden brain into getting this on a daily, hourly basis without your brain fooling you again? My mind lies to me daily. One minute it will agree that booze is sucking the very life outta me, then the next minute it will tell me today will be different. That's warped. I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works. Till then, I'm dogfood.
When you talk about surrender, as I understand it now, you're talking about changing the very foundation of my thinking, and that's where I trip up. I can logically say I surrender, but how do you get that down deep into your gut? How do you change a warped alcohol sodden brain into getting this on a daily, hourly basis without your brain fooling you again? My mind lies to me daily. One minute it will agree that booze is sucking the very life outta me, then the next minute it will tell me today will be different. That's warped. I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works. Till then, I'm dogfood.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I did those workbooks in rehab... did more harm than good was my own personal experience... may work for some... Hell I already knew that I almost burned the house down... drank and drove... put others in harms way... I knew all that.
What keith and trucker said about choice, and not having one...
It's in there. Knowing I cannot always make the right one. Giving up the choice to my higher power... abdicating that choice... that's my experience and ESH there... that's all I can offer you. Since I don't get to choose, I don't have to... Freedom!
Many come to believe that the 12 steps and the program of AA is, actually, the easier, softer way.
Mark
What keith and trucker said about choice, and not having one...
It's in there. Knowing I cannot always make the right one. Giving up the choice to my higher power... abdicating that choice... that's my experience and ESH there... that's all I can offer you. Since I don't get to choose, I don't have to... Freedom!
Many come to believe that the 12 steps and the program of AA is, actually, the easier, softer way.
Mark
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by firestorm090
I kinda took the steps as some type of correspondence course, if it sounded good, I should pass the course and get an "A" for my efforts. Well, at least a "B".
When you talk about surrender, as I understand it now, you're talking about changing the very foundation of my thinking, and that's where I trip up. I can logically say I surrender, but how do you get that down deep into your gut? How do you change a warped alcohol sodden brain into getting this on a daily, hourly basis without your brain fooling you again? My mind lies to me daily. One minute it will agree that booze is sucking the very life outta me, then the next minute it will tell me today will be different. That's warped. I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works. Till then, I'm dogfood.
When you talk about surrender, as I understand it now, you're talking about changing the very foundation of my thinking, and that's where I trip up. I can logically say I surrender, but how do you get that down deep into your gut? How do you change a warped alcohol sodden brain into getting this on a daily, hourly basis without your brain fooling you again? My mind lies to me daily. One minute it will agree that booze is sucking the very life outta me, then the next minute it will tell me today will be different. That's warped. I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works. Till then, I'm dogfood.
Just to offer up a taste of just how deeply changed we become, Carl Jung, one of Freud's associates, in treating an early member of AA basically said to him...."you are a hopeless alcoholic. The only thing I've ever seen that causes one like you to stop is A PSYCHIC SHIFT BROUGHT ON BY A SPIRITUAL AWAKENING." A psychic shift.....a new paradigm .....a new design for living....brought on by a spiritual awakening (Step 12...the only result we are offered in the steps is a spiritual awakening).
AA told me that I must let go of my old ideas....that until I did the results would be "nil." First I let go....then I let God. Maybe timing is everything<G>
blessings
zbear
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by firestorm090
I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works.
I can not change the way my mind works.
Now, if I must change the way my mind works, and I can not change the way my mind works, then I'm in a real pickle. Oh my God, there is no way out of this mess! That realization, in my heart, that I am not going to stop drinking, provides the desperation of a drowning man.
I'm 100% screwed. This is what forces me into Step 2. Only then do I seek God on his terms, not mine.
Am I willing to believe that something can fix me? That some power exists that I can tap into? Well, I didn't believe, but I was willing to believe. I was willing to believe because I had become thoroughly convinced of the hopelessness and futility of life as I'd been living it.
A wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built on that foundation of surrender and subsequent hope. Or so I've read.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Hi Mark, good to hear from ya!!
I know you guys like keithj, trucker, and others here have gotten to a point where your lives are totally different and that's what I want. My mind is really screwed up. I don't trust my mind today. I stayed awake for hours last night just thinking of all the crap I've been through by listening to my own mind. Coming from an alcoholic home and family that still drinks, I realized my mind has always lied to me since as far back as I can remember. I've become the very person I never wanted to be. I don't trust my own thinking today. That's where I'm at.
I know you guys like keithj, trucker, and others here have gotten to a point where your lives are totally different and that's what I want. My mind is really screwed up. I don't trust my mind today. I stayed awake for hours last night just thinking of all the crap I've been through by listening to my own mind. Coming from an alcoholic home and family that still drinks, I realized my mind has always lied to me since as far back as I can remember. I've become the very person I never wanted to be. I don't trust my own thinking today. That's where I'm at.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by firestorm090
When you talk about surrender, as I understand it now, you're talking about changing the very foundation of my thinking, and that's where I trip up. I can logically say I surrender, but how do you get that down deep into your gut? How do you change a warped alcohol sodden brain into getting this on a daily, hourly basis without your brain fooling you again?
I used to think I'll "do these steps to get power over alcohol." --WRONG. Doesn't work that way.
Ya see, like you said, the core of your being has to change. Honestly, do you think you are capable of doing that before alcohol demolishes you? If you don't think you can.....you're in the right place.
If you're an alcoholic (aka a REAL alcoholic) you need a complete frame-off restoration, you need it NOW, and you can't do it. --that my friend is powerlessness and unmanageability.....and mabye a dash of hopelessness.
Here's the good news..... you have ONE shot. There's ONE thing you can do that not only gives you a chance, it'll basically guarantee results - you've got to find a power MORE POWERFUL than you that's willing and able to do that foundation rebuilding for you. And you better lean on that power for as much help, guidance, everything....that you can get. Because doing things your way gets the results you've been getting (and for sure bro...I'm not knocking you...I hope you know that... I like you and I care about you) and it will continue to get the same results.
As a mentor of mine put it to me: "So you don't like admitting you're powerless and that your life is unmanageable huh? well, keep living it in the manner you think is right, keep f*cking it up, and it'll get real easy to say. You're either going to have to figure it out or ELSE.....do you realize that Michael?"
Originally Posted by firestorm090
That's warped. I've got to find a way of changing the way my mind works. Till then, I'm dogfood.
Keepin you in my prayers D... gimme a shout anytime too man!
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