Yea, the promises... My home group and the other group I attend don't read them, I always like it when they are read at a meeting...

Mark

Its called the moral high ground.......its the perfect place to hang out if you wanna stay sick.

i stopped drinking once for about a month..ish............the wife said "you might as well drink cos you sure act like you are"..
i learnt the difference between recovering and recovered.

newcomers dont need to be belittled by fake gurus.......its like water off a duckS back anyhow..and in my experience its as useful as a chocolate T pot.

Sharing the message
 

Don't create crosstalk at meetings unless it has already been agreed with by the group involved. Otherwise, you will be shut down with no remedy. It rarely will be agreed with, so don't hold your breath, lol. Even then, agreed crosstalk isn't really crosstalk, more like allowed disagreement to be offered politely and nicely. heh heh. Don't go there....

It is allowed though to follow through with what someone has just said offering your own ESH and from a different perspective that draws the group to consider a differing experience. When done skillfully and with grace, accomplishes much more then rogue crosstalk.

And there is always speaking privately to whoever you will, and nothing there can be considered crosstalk either.

Your enthusiasum for the newcomer to hear the message of hope is very correct and honorable and I encourage you to not be dismayed at members who suffer from ignorance when they attempt to "help" the newcomer in ways that really just don't help anybody much.

"if you're new i hope your life sucks" statements can perhaps be refuted by following with "if your new and think your life sucks now, just wait and you'll find out from working the program that those days of stinkin' thinking are falling more and more behind you each day."

So have a good one!! Dance, dance, dance.... :) for the joys of freedom!! Yaaaay!!!

RR

good stuff. :)

You are so right, living a sober life and attempting to work the 12 steps in all my affairs should mean that I have found sanity, hence step 2. I am not referring to "sober" alcoholics, I am referring to active alcoholics. I did nothing in my active addiction to deserve the life I have today. I did nothing in my active addiction to deserve sobriety or sanity. The Grace of my higher power is the only reason I was given a chance at sobriety. I will forever be grateful for that. As a result of working the steps, I had a spiritual awaking. I have found sobriety, sanity, and even serenity. Once again as I stated, this is all contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

This really doesn't make much sense, so you are saying you can drink, because you have sobriety? So if you take a drink, the misery and insanity of alcoholism will not return? Perhaps we have been reading a different Big Book?


Perhaps I do have prejudice against alcoholism. A great prejudice it is. I have yet to find that level of serenity where I grew butterfly wings and someone patted me on the butt and said everything is going to be perfect now. Perhaps when I get 20+ years I will feel differently. Alcohlism is still destroying my mother, my brother and my sisters lives.

Is there some pride involved, yes. I am proud of my sobriety, I am proud have a wonderful relationship with my wife and that my son has not had to experience the insanity of alcoholism as I did as a child. I am proud that I have a host of friends and a fellowship has grown up around me. I am proud of the young men that I get to guide through the steps and see their lives change.

"But for the grace of god there go I" -

I said this myself to someone a little while ago and too felt uncomfortable after. I asked myself, do I believe this? No. So why am I saying it? Because that is what others say..........

I've been reading this thread with interest. Thanks for posting.

there but for the grace of God go I - Wiktionary

Okay CStyle, so I'll just quote your whole original post then, to be more clear.

I know for me it is vital to see the effects of active alcoholism and addiction in peoples lives.

--for your own ESH, sure, its not the way i want to look at others, but i'm not you, so no problem!

I got sober when I was 23, I will be 32 in a few days. My built in forgeter (alcoholism) likes to tell me that maybe it wasn't so bad, and maybe I was just being young, and maybe I can drink like a normal person now.

--my alcoholism does not have a built in forgetter, but if it did, i would remedy that with some rigorous honesty in my sobriety concerning my actual gratitude for where I'm at today with myself and perhpas not be so worried about where i came from yesterday and what happens if i should ever forget. Being sober has always been proof against my forgetting, you see.

I don't know about you, but I need these constant reminders to keep me grounded. I love working with new comers and seeing their lives change. I also get a first hand chance to see why I am doing what I am doing, and the results that people get from old behavior. Old behavior gives you old results.

--And i don't know you, like i already said, and yeah, you for sure don't know me. I don't need the present misery of others suffering from alcoholism to keep me grounded in my sobriety that i enjoy today. I do agree though that old behaviours gives old results, for the most part.

Today I am not better than or less than anyone else. It is that I am granted a daily reprieve from my active alcoholism, insanity, and chaos that is contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

-- ROCK ON!!!

When I see a new comer in the insanity of their addiction, I state "but for the Grace of God there go I" because I know without a doubt that I deserve to be going through what they are going through and that I am only one drink away from being right where they are. To me this is a statement of gratitude, nothing more.

--okay, so in the bold is what I'm speaking to now. i understand, i think, what you are saying here is that without having sobriety, then you'd deserve to be going through what they are going through, yes?

if yes, it still is not a statement of gratitude, or "but for the grace of God there go I" statement and here's why:

to have and enjoy our sobriety requires us to live in the moment, not in the past, and not in the future. We remember our past not to glorify our present sobriety, but to have humility and forgiveness for our past unmangeable life and the destruction and sorrow we brought to others through our past actions.

we look to our future not to chastise and complain about our present moment in sobriety, nor to boast and become prideful sitting on our laurels as we watch others struggle with their own sobriety challenges.

Okay then, CStyle. We have a different ESH, and thats just the way its gonna be no matter what is posted or not posted in this thread. Like i said, i have no offence for you, and I'm not chewing a bone. Obviously I believe I have something to say that may help you. Take it for where it's coming from, or leave it, no problem guy. :)

Originally Posted by RobbyRobot http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s/viewpost.gif
--if a so-called "sober alcoholic" is only one drink away from being right where they [a new comer] are [using and abusing alcohol insanely] then that sober alcoholic is not sober in any meaningful way. One-drink-away describes abstinence and not sobriety. Sobriety is a life experienced without not only alcohol but without all the garbage of living a drunk existence. Sobriety is not just a flimsy to-drink or not-to-drink daily choice or chore to be reasoned out come what may.

--okay, this one above is from the post directed at me, your second post. Your kidding, right? Where do you get I'm saying you can drink because you have sobriety? Or the misery will not return? Or a different Big Book? You're pulling my chain, yes?

--that says it right there, I'm thinking.

CStyle, I'm not deaf to your post to me, and thank you for the feedback from your ESH. I'm sorry your family is in harms way with alcoholism, mine is too, to let you know something from me. As for the 20+ years and the whole butterfly wing jazz, yeah you'll feel different.

if i may, the difficulty with prejudices and resentments is that it steals away from ourselves the very same values we are trying to honor, uphold, and protect. We become what we hate. And no one will be there to say "i told you so" more then the drunk still suffering who sees his chance to throw some crap about how sobriety sucks and whatever. When its our own family and dear friends that suffer we can often feel guilty somehow for our progressive and enlightened sobriety. Sometimes having and holding prejudices against alcoholism makes it easier to bear the guilt of our successes with sobriety because we transfer the pains and can then justify and blame ourselves. How sad.

I'm not pointing a finger here, CStyle. I'm just saying, I've been there and that is what i worked through to get free from the suffering that is still ongoing with my own family. Inter-dependence rather than co-dependence. Its an ongoing endevour, to be sure.

Lastly, the pride you are talking about in your last post to me, about your wife and son, your friends and fellowships, is not the selfish pride i was referring to, okay? Yes, be proud with the righteousness of knowing you have become sober to live a good and happy life, without paying a price for your drunkness. That may not be easy for you to see today, but eventually I would like to think that you will realize we owe nothing to our former lives, or to the people who we harmed, except that amends must be made in good order for our sustained sobriety, peace of mind, and to bring closure. Our continued suffering while sober will not right any of our past wrongs, no matter our deepest intentions or heroics.

sincerely, have a good day, CStyle.

Robby

Amen to that. Pretty advanced concept in my opinion.

Is AA a sober Elk's Club? Where people come in, make some new friends, and don't drink because that is the 'normative' behavior of the group they are now hanging with?

It certainly isn't what AA is in my opinion, but I do think that is how a lot of people use AA.

Maybe that's why I hear a lot of the same people going in an out of the rooms saying the same BS over and over and never recovering.

Thank you.

I remember, in rehab, the 2nd month, attendance at community AA meetings was required... additionally it was our responsibility to find rides, by asking the AAs who brought meetings into the treatment center... this was a bit stressful because advancement in the treatment program was contingent on making these arrangements... and there were always a few people in 2nd month of treatment hustling rides... competitive...

I was completely ignorant of AA... I wondered why AAs were taking time out of their weekends to bring meetings way out in the country on Saturday and Sunday nights... in the first place... and then even more so... they were there after the meetings willing to make arrangements to pick up residents and take them to early AM meetings before the sun came up...

WTF? I thought.

I eventually found someone... It was great, he played good music and drove a vintage Mercedes convertible... "Why do you do this?" I asked him after the meeting at the Dunkin Donuts...

"To keep it green" He said...

At the time, I was awash in shame, regret, confusion and fear.... "Whatever" I thought... If this helps you to "Keep it green", fine... I liked him and I was too wrapped up in my own misery to give a rat's a$$ about whether I was offended. I was grateful that the guy was reaching out...

I read something in the Big Book about Bill W. at the Mayflower Hotel and a list of phone numbers of contacts at local churches... He needed to find another drunk to talk to...

Was Bill W. "Keeping it Green" ?

Mark

BTW good thread... Thanx CStyle and Robbie, good stuff!