Weeza

NOTE: This share is NOT a bash against AA. AA is my program and I love it dearly, so folks who may be inclined to say negative things about AA, please sit on your hands. Thank you.

The other day, my sponsor and friend of 18 years "fired" me because I took her direction to find a new doctor and was following doctor's orders. This is the 5th doctor I've seen in the last year, and the new doctor had the same diagnosis for me as the other 4 doctors.

It's been a head trip to have so much time in the AA program, doing it in a rigorous way, but I've been treated less than civil and it's affecting my serenity....

In my 18 years, I've done lots of service (GSR in LA, NYC and Europe, Central Office, secretary meetings) but after I became a mother, my life is now focused on my kid, and well, it's not like he was invited to go along to meetings with me because I've been turned away from them for bringing him along, so I just learned to be a Loner in the program, which is okay.

I feel I have enough foundation and was keeping in touch with my sponsor... only... she wasn't phoning me back so I thought, 'okay, she's just busy with her newer sponsees, don't take it personally. You have over 15 years, shush up.'

Anyways, I've been doing a lot of writing on my experiences lately and now see I did indeed do my part to inform my sponsor about doctor visits (not required for AA by the way!) and what pain medication was prescribed (also not required)... One doctor told me I was terminally ill so needed medication or would die if I didn't take it... But my sponsor 'missed' those messages because her work created 'distraction', so I relied on my husband's feedback as he has 23 years sobriety... "Follow doctor's orders" is was what he said.

With that said, I've gone through a battle of being put on meds and getting off them because they have bad sides effect on me. It just may be that either my body can't tolerate or I have been so brainwashed to fear them that I go into a panic about taking any...

For the most part, I've been whiteknuckling through pain until one doctor suggested I not do narcotic medication but go for herbal therapy using 2 puffs of medical cannabis or consume by way of edible food. This change from narcotic to medical cannabis script was done around the time I had a crisis in my life and informed my sponsor of both but she didn't respond, so I just went ahead and took the doctor's advice to avoid narcotic relievers and trial run medical cannabis. In all, I used the medical cannabis off and on as-needed over a two month period and have not touched the stuff in 3 weeks since discussing with my sponsor, and I didn't notice any withdrawal symptoms. It was easy to let it go.

Just so you know, pot was not my drug of choice when I was using back in 1991. I hated the stuff because it made me feel stupid. My buzz was booze and disco drugs, not pot. I've not had a high nor drink in over 18 years but when I finally could not carry this resentment with my sponsor anymore about the poor communication between us, I got her on the line and told her everything to which she said I was no longer sober and had to start all over again like a newcomer, take newcomer chips, call her everyday, find a new doctor for 'second opinion' (5th, really), etc.

I did just as my sponsor instructed, calling every day but my sponsor in the entire 14 days of my calling her every day never once picked up the phone or called me back. It was like talking to a wall.

I decided to go to NA meetings because then I could talk about issues other than alcohol since AA's specific about keeping shares to alcohol and I didn't feel I slipped since I took prescription medication since it was prescribed by a doctor. Plus I was good about telling another sober member, didn't drink.

The NA meetings were helpful in that I could talk about all this stuff yet their feedback to me was that I didn't slip, so I told my sponsor that and she said "addicts will tell you anything, they have a way of signing on to your sht" -- my jaw dropped when hearing that. I don't believe it... It's just the opposite. But maybe my sponsor (now former) is talking stuff that's not even AA but more of a fringe of it with the unusual way homegroup does things...

In my founding homegroup, men are not to have facial hair, members must wear professional attire for meetings (skirts and hose for ladies, jacket and tie for men)... those are some things I've had issue with and I've been told I'm a 'brat' because I don't do what everyone else does... it's not the AA I've known all around the world, but that's how it's done with this group and I did it that way for my first three years, had a bump in the road when I moved in with a guy who wasn't 'approved' to date by my sponsor and step-sisters, so when I left that relationship and started going back to the homegroup's meetings, all my friends shunned me... it was like I was a ghost. So because I felt abandoned, I thought I'd change my life, start over on the other end of America, doing a 3,000 mile geographic to get away from that scene.

The move did me a world of good because I got to experience AA all over the world, an AA without love-bombing or shunning, but then when I moved back to the area, I got pulled back into my founding homegroup and first sponsor. I remained as minimally involved with the group as possible and this was only because my family needed me at home more than I have any desire to drink... I don't feel bad about that. I've been called all kinds of names by my step-sibs... told I'm 'half-measuring,' 'not working the program,' 'on a dry drunk' and much worse since...

Now the climax of this long story: My sponsor dumped me as a sponsee over the phone the other day because my rheumatologist said I must take a non-narcotic medication in order for my health to improve, my sponsor says I've "slipped again" and am a "junkie who is going to die soon from a drug overdose."

I'm beside myself. I could never dream to belittle or shame another alcoholic, addict or person suffering FOR ANY REASON, especially if they phone me every day and are truthful and trying. God knows I've tried. It was horrible to be a 'newcomer' again, especially when I didn't feel right about saying I was, but that's how this group does things... even over the counter medication for a cold or flu is a slip for that crowd....

So my head is wrestling with myself about what I got myself into... Like where's my backbone? Why am I reacting to this insanity? It's clearly not the AA way...

Currently I'm under fire from 'step-siblings' (other members of the group who are sponsor's 'babies' (sponsees), and getting what feels like hate messages. I'm told they can't talk to me because I'm 'in denial' and need to check into rehab but it won't matter because I'll 'soon die from a drug overdose.'

These people contacting me to tell me I'm going to die probably feel in their hearts that they're doing right for my welfare, but this mobbing feels like something 'other' than AA and it's scaring me.... I don't know who my AA friends are anymore and that I would be better off to go into hiding, but that's the LAST place I should go because then I surely could develop a resentment and justify picking up a drink -- like, "well you drove me to drink!"

So, all I have right now where I feel safe is this SR board and the NA meetings I've been going to..... I think I may need to see a professional therapist for evaluation about possibly being affected by peer pressure, but maybe just writing all this out will be healing enough and then time will just take over and burn those bad memories away...

Has anyone gone through something like this before?

Does this seem like some strange reaction and behavior from a group? It's a large group, too, with about 2,000 members... So you can imagine the snowfall of feedback I'm getting for 'going out' by the members...

But...... God's given me one saving grace-- TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE... In the face of this badgering, I know in my own heart that I've only done my best with staying sober even when scorned and ridiculed.

Thank you for listening,
Weeza

CarolD

As this topic is all AA focused....
I've moved it over here.

CarolD

No I've never experienced this in AA
and I'm sorry you have.

Weeza

Carol,

Thanks for helping to move the post to the right forum. I'm still new to the board so was used to the one forum...

But you are right that as this is a post that's all AA related, it will be better for feedback from AA friends.

xx Weeza

FightingIrish

Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other, that they may solve their common problem and help others recover from alcoholism...

You know the rest. I would find a new group. My sponsor says that one of the gifts of the program is that we get back the power to choose. To make decisions about our own lives while being open to the help and suggestions of others.

A group with a dress code?? Hoo boy. I guess if that works for you...

M

least

I too would say find another group. Preferably one without a dress code or members acting as doctors and psychiatrists. If it were me, I'd never darken the door of that homegroup again. Sounds like they have a 'group attitude' problem to me. I think you're doing the right thing in questioning such strict rules and attitudes. Sounds a little too "holier than thou" to me.

I hope you can find a new home group without the 'scare tactics' used by your old home group. With all the problems you have to deal with, you certainly don't need them and their problems.

(((hugs)))

laurie6781

Well i am no Dr I don't discuss my medical issues with others just my Dr.

Your sponsor did you a favor, by following her directions you were being put in misery and pain and she was possibly 'killing' you sooner.

As your husband has told you, FOLLOW YOUR DRs INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!

I M H O, again I say, NO you have NOT SLIPPED.

Find a new sponsor, find a new home group, that acts like they live in the 21st century, use your tools daily. I believe without the 'stress' of your sponsor and former AA cohorts you will start to feel a bit better, along with following your DRs orders.

You have come a long way .............................. you are doing good.

Keep posting and venting.

I know from personal experience, as does Carol D how hard having serious health issues in sobriety can be.

Love ang hugs,

PS. feel free to PM me anytime

lizw

Sorry to hear you're having such a horrible time. I think I would be pretty insane if I was being treated the same. I have seen some people get treated very badly in AA and I have the tendency to forget we're all sick - some more than others, obviously.

I would also have to agree there is a certain amount of 'peer pressure' in AA or any 12th step program or even in any group of people with a common interest.

My expereince has been 3 years ago I was diagnosed with serious medical problems and found most of my AA friends were keen to offer medical advice and medication advice and some have found it too hard to stay in touch with me as I find it hard to get to meetings etc... Like yourself I am a LIM and receive their monthly newsletter and have a few AA people I write to. Plus SR has been a god send. I've had to find new ones to stay sober and I know some members don't agree but what they think of me is none of my business. I can't control their minds and trying to drives me nuts.

If I have learnt anything over the last 3 years (I've been sober 11 years now too) it is that my program is my program but not in the 'I'm going to do it my way' kinda way. It is inside me. It is not at meetings, in other members or in my sponsor. It is my relationship with a HP. I.e. he is the father, we are the children etc...

And people in AA are always gonna talk or shun someone, so don't worry too much, your turn will be over soon. : )

I also have to ask if you've ever considered attending Al Anon? They are quite good for teaching people how not to react to crazy situations. I've found them fantastic. Their preamble talks about having peace of mind which is not dependent on things outside of ourselves. I.e. what others think of us.

Take it easy.

WakeUp

Jeez, that group sounds like a religious cult rather than AA.
I would dump both the sponsor and the homegroup, and tell everyone you do not want to contacted again. There are great groups out there. I love my homegroup.

Sometimes AA sponsors remind me of Mormon clergy. While having good intentions of service, they are untrained volunteers. Unless a sponsor has a degree in theology, psychology, medicine, law, ect, they are another DRUNK just like all of us.

Whew, strong words, I'm putting my flame proof suit on.

barb dwyer

I'm so glad you found SR!

Now go find a new home group.

I red in the Grapevine (it may have been an old one)

about a nudist AA group ... that would be fun.

The group you describe ... would NOT be a fun group.

navysteve

Wake up hit the nail on the head- this is a cult disguised as AA. It happens although many like to turn a blind eye to it. It sounds like the last time I was at the Pacific Group (1996).

barb dwyer

*thanks button* thanks steve and Laurie and wakeup

you said it so much better than I did.

Ribeye

Your husband is right. Follow the Dr's orders and take medication as prescribed.

If anyone tells you that is a 'slip' run away, run....far, far away. They are not practicing the program of AA. There are pamphlets AA publishes on just such topics.

Google ' AA pamphlets on prescription medication' or something like that.

Weeza

So I'm not insane......

Thank you Carol, M, Least, Laurie, Liz, Wakeup, Barb, Steve and Ribeye.

For all your kind reinforcements to what I know is right inside me, being that "To thine own self be true," your support remedies the hurtful messages i've been getting from the same number of people who've been on my case...

I've visited self help sites for people who've experienced peer pressure groups and answered the questions to determine if I had fallen under the influence of a sect and the results say Yes so it baffles me because this particular group is the rescue group for homeless drunks on Skid Row, and many of these vulnerable people are bussed up to the glitzy Wednesday meeting and so must do everything the group tells them or lose shelter care... This group is a famous AA group and has many power speakers that are given roundtrip tickets and hotel accommodations to speak all over the country, so many first time listeners to these shares are very impressed and have a high view of the group that's also run by the guy who runs the shelter on Skid Row.

When I got sucked into that group, I had been an isolated drinker so was pink clouded by all the attention old timers were giving to me, but at the same time was huddled by the women in the group and told not to talk to the men because it would get in the way of my recovery. At least that bit of direction was smart because when I took my first cake, a line of guys showed up to my party with phone numbers. Apparently there's a rule there that people can't date until after they have a year.

Following my first year cake and being hounded by guys, when I avoided the men because I got the vibe they just wanted some action, my subsequent sponsor ordered me to collect three phone numbers from men during coffee break because she said it was 'time to date' and that it was necessary for me to 'build self esteem.' That made me feel like I was being pimped out... I did as she complied, turning over the numbers and then she reviewed them and said which guys to call. I wasn't into calling any but did phone one guy who turned out to be using cocaine and he wanted to come over to my home and get me high. I told him NO WAY then phoned the 2nd sponsor up about it and she said he was probably messing with my head but the guy kept phoning and was dirty talking so I had to change my phone number. That taught me a lesson about following that kind of 'sponsor's direction.'

Another thing with that group is that they have private meetings in homes called 'baby meetings' and they're by invite only, not registered in AA directories. There's also a Step Guide that's not an official AA text. Oh, the list goes on. Many members marry other members in the group so there becomes a kind of pageantry about that with big weddings, bridal showers, baby showers... plus events called The Yard where you go to the house of the main leader, pick up all his dog poop, then the women play volley ball while the men play baseball, then break for a hotdog lunch... so it's like your entire life gets sucked into pleasing your sponsor and step sisters or brothers. Anyone who questions all that activity is told they are having defect character issues and need to work their program better... plus it can be dang expensive meeting all the parties which require nice gifts on top of the potlucks.

Supposedly all that 'action' of 'being of service' with doing these invite only activities is supposed to replace the time one would spend out there drinking in bars or clubs, but I found it interfered with my work and family. When I would miss attending these events because I needed to focus on family or a college exam, the members around me would tell me about their disappointment for such 'failure' to 'suit up and show up,' and say that I was just 'seconds and inches away from a relapse.'

I probably should cut my losses and put blocks on my email inbox to prevent receiving criticism from the members who have opinions that I'm 'not giving AA my priority.'

Last thing I remember discussing with my former sponsor from that mobbish group is that I told her I was worried about being brainwashed by a mob and that the AA I know from outside the group and all around the world has the view that the experience of sobriety is supposed to help build a bridge back to life and I'm living fine as I am with my family and volunteer work. Maybe my health is bad but I didn't create my health issues... However my sponsor said that pain is manufactured by drunks who just want an excuse to justify medication abuse. So I asked her why one celebrity from the group could be on a couple dozen medications but keep her time, why Bill Wilson was able to keep his time despite writing about using LSD and cocaine in recovery (his book is called Pass It On), and she said, 'if you want to build a case...' Anyways, there is a double-standard within that group and a lot of sexual acting out if I may rightly say so... it's not for me. I didn't do the dress up thing after I wised up to all that being so Stepford Wive-ish...

I feel I ought to put a call into Central Office about how that group's behavior is contrary to the Traditions but I'm afraid that the group itself also has a stranglehold on the Central Office (those guys don't miss a beat).

So I will sigh a little better from venting here. I've needed to get all this out of my system. I'd out the group but don't want to come across vindictive... plus, there's no telling what the repercussions for that would be as I'm sure someone from that group will look in here and read this..... last thing I need is a home visit...

Man, o man.....

Weeza

Also... if you were receiving negative email from members who told you you're going to die from an overdose soon for taking medication as prescribed by a doctor, but then their tone switches to "I'm praying for you" would you reply or just ignore?

I've been ignoring so far because I felt if I answered any, then that would welcome to open the door for potential criticism to reignite...

I'd just like to tell them to shut up and leave me alone but then that would sound like a crazy person reacting, right? So maybe ignoring is the best tactic, and, remove from social network friend list, too... cut off ties altogether...

Sugah

Weeza, please accept this with the spirit of love in which it's offered, because I'm not sure how it'll come out, not hearing my voice or us seeing eye to eye as I say it...

First, it sounds like there's some sick stuff going on in this group. My strongest suggestion to you is to find at least one day a week where you can visit a group or groups a town or two over. What you've said above sounds like the makings of a big resentment and that, not how you dress when you go to a meeting or whether or not your partner is on an "approved list," is what will get you drunk.

The red flag I see is the potential condition of your spiritual state. Having my relationship with my HP as my main priority, not the AA fellowship, is what keeps me sober in all manner of the word. And as you said, "to thine owns self, be true." I know that a good resentment can help me justify anything. Be careful, stay connected. If you seek it, you'll find your fellowship.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Weeza

[QUOTE=Sugah;2465421]The red flag I see is the potential condition of your spiritual state. Having my relationship with my HP as my main priority, not the AA fellowship, is what keeps me sober in all manner of the word. And as you said, "to thine owns self, be true." I know that a good resentment can help me justify anything. Be careful, stay connected. If you seek it, you'll find your fellowship./QUOTE]

You're absolutely right, Sugah.... I do recognize the risk I have for relapsing. When my (former) sponsor took away my 18 years to Day One, by the second day I thought to myself, 'well, since I've already slipped, I might as well go find a glass of Grand Marnier.' I would have picked Zima as that was the new drink in fashion during my first year of sobriety and I was sorry to have missed it by just a couple of months...

But yes, that's where my head was going... The logic of the alcoholic brain remains intact but hiding and when all this spiritual crisis was going on and my body was suffering for weeks without prescribed medication so I could meet my 'wiser' sponsor's 'direction,' that alcoholic peabrain in me got triggered and was saying, 'but dollface, since you're a newcomer and have this new sobriety date, what's the difference of starting over two days from now? It's just a day's difference... Go have that Grand Marnier because you know how much you like it and it's been ages. You're probably a normie now.'

I didn't go for the drink though. I saw that internal thought for what it was-- a resentment. Well let me tell you, I've not had resentments or secrets in ages so when this internal id critter was goading me on to go find a shot of Grand Marnier, I went to a meeting and shared about it. I now feel a bit embarrassed for bringing this stuff up at a sober living home where the meeting was held because most of the people in the room have less than five months, and here I am some lady with 18 years and for them it must seem unreal that someone in the room could have that much time. But I think I needed to be just right there for this matter because my heart was having to cope with being a newcomer all over again and it was these new members telling me "you're being hard on yourself. You should find another sponsor and keep your time. Go look around on the internet for a support group and run things by other old timers."

I've also heard from around the rooms lately that my story of having a mess of years and taking newcomer chips have been seen in the rooms before, but this one is a first for me. It's also a wake up call to not entrust so much in another drunk that it gets in the way of what I know is right or wrong for my Higher Power.

Hopefully soon all this will be behind me and I can go back to being clear headed enough to help the new guy out. I do though admit to feeling phobic about taking my 18 year cake... I've not taken it yet and it's already six weeks over due... At this point I feel it's got to be given to me because i've earned it but I just don't know how to go stand up in front of a group and do so...... is it really necessary even?

FanofJoeMcQ

Wow, my heart goes out to you. I have seen such types of toxicity take over a group on whole. Time to find other meetings. Pray for those people. I have been a member of the same home group for over 13 years. I stay in spite of. Thats me. I earned my seat and that sort of social spider egg can remain and run its natural course. Its not why I am there. I don't run their program and they aren't running mine. Like Sugah said, we each answer to our own HP.

Many people in AA (including myself) have had to take medications as instructed for various conditions. I have a medical condition that is chronic and I do not share about it with many people in AA. I have had two surgeries as well. I don't share about it in the rooms, its not their concern. I also have a licensed recovery counselor as well as using a sponsor. I have seen sponsors break their sponsee's trust by sharing personal details with others in AA. I have also witnessed people in AA dispensing medical advice. Under the guise of '12 stepping' HELLO???? I usually pipe up. We are not professionals. I sincerely hope that you remain true to your recovery and remain hopeful that there are good folks in the fellowship in spite of your recent experience.

We are here. So glad you reached out. Hugs.

Ribeye

Honestly, I would ignore them but I would find another group first.

I've moved on a few times in AA from groups I just outgrew or didn't click with. Nothing as dramatic as your experience but the principle is the same I think. We all change and it probably doesn't take 18 years to do it. You may be over due for a change in venue....who knows ? Give it a try and see
how you like it.

Rusty Zipper

weeze hell no!

and Run For the Hills from that Bunch!