adore79

Just curious. If you were chairing an AA meeting and a court ordered person came up before the meeting started and asked you to sign their slip so they could leave and not stay through the meeting, would you sign it or not and why?

Lets say also that the reason that this person doesnt want to go to meetings is because she doesnt think AA is right for her, even though she has been going for months. She thinks it is unfair for a court to send someone to an anoynomous organization in the first place.

suki44883

No, I would not sign the paper unless the person had attended the entire meeting. So, the person doesn't think AA is right for them? Big deal. They evidently got in trouble with the law because of their drinking and they are now having to suffer the consequences. After they have fulfilled their duties under the law, they can stop attending meetings if they wish; however, in the meantime, they shouldn't be allowed to "cheat" their way out.

Mark75

Well, at that point it comes down to our own integrity. Even though it's anonymous and all that, no one is going to check, when we sign that paper we are saying they attended that meeting. And what sort of message would we send? Yea, we'll lie for you... and we will justify our dishonesty by saying that we agree with you, that AA isn't right for you.

It's about how we treat ourselves. It's about honoring our own word. We don't have to agree with court ordered attendance, that's beside the point.

Mark

suki44883

In my opinion, what it comes down to is lying. I would never sign my name to something that I know is a lie. Why would anyone do that?

adore79

But does signing the paper really mean that the person stayed the entire meeting? What if they got there half way through? I'd bet they would still get their paper signed then.

Isnt signing the paper meaning that the person signing the paper sees that the person is there at the meeting? That is the extent of their responsibility. They are not police or school teachers there to make sure everyone behaves. jmo.

suki44883

Your initial question was...If you were chairing an AA meeting and a court ordered person came up before the meeting started and asked you to sign their slip so they could leave and not stay through the meeting, would you sign it or not and why?

Now, you are qualifying that. I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to get at, but this person is trying to cheat the system. Whether or not they think they belong in AA is not the issue. The issue is that they obviously got into trouble because of their drinking and they have certain steps to take because of that. As a chairperson at an AA meeting, to sign their paper knowing they did not attend the meeting would be a disservice to both themselves and the person ordered to be there.

Mark75

Well, if a person comes to you at the start of the meeting, makes it clear to you that they don't intend on attending, you would be complicit in the lie...

If someone comes late, puts the paper in front of you at the end of the meeting and simply asks for an initial... now we get ourselves into the enforcement question... Me, I'd sign it, they were there.... then it's between them and there own conscience.

There is a young guy who attends my home group... comes late, sits in the back, wears his iPod ear buds through the meeting and brings his crumpled sheet up at the end.

No where on the form does it ask... Was he on time, Did he listen, Did he share....

Mark

suki44883

I hear ya, Cubile. I guess I'm just a hard a$$...and I'm not even an AA person. LOL

barb dwyer

I've seen a LOT of wierd papers while chairing meetings.

I have to remember-
when I'm spiritually fit...
it's none of my business how someone else
works whatever they're doing.

But -
I also wouldn't sign any paper
saying sopmething that wasn't true.
That alone is pretty simple.

So
when it 'gets to me'
what someone else is doing-
I know it's time for ME
to do some spiritual maintenence.

Mark75

See there.... You don't have to be AA to be a hard a$$... lol

Mark

suki44883

This is true. I have to remind myself that just because when I made the decision to stop drinking, I threw myself into 5 days of detox and then 5 weeks of IOP. I was bound and determined to beat this thing. I need to remember that not everyone is that determined. Many still are in denial, and some think they can skate along and eventually drink like people who aren't alcoholics. I'm no better than anyone else, it's just that when I hit my own personal bottom, I knew it...deep down in my soul. I knew that this wasn't a game. It's not a game.

navysteve

Yes I would do it in a heartbeat!

I am not a court appointed person, AA has no affiliation yada yada yada...

I got sober off a court slip

Our job in AA is to carry the message not the drunk, if they don't bother the meeting with their behavior they can come and go as they please.

Most AA groups do not keep attendance records as it would not be in keeping with the "Anonymous" part of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Many think this is a violation of tradition:

While an A.A. group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never to go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied. An A.A. group can bind itself to no one.

I used to sign my own slip, no one ever questioned it, I even stole a stamp from a meeting and did it myself


An interesting paper on the subject:

http://www.intoaction.org/files/gene...courtslips.pdf

lizw

Ok, I am AA and (for me) signing something which is untrue, is dishonest and amounts to no more than people pleasing or the inability to deal with conflict.

I would never sign a form if they told me they were leaving and didn't plan to stay - how they feel about AA is none of my business that's between them and their PO and/or God - but AA does cooperate with courts/law professionals etc... and lying for people who don't want to attend does not do anything to nurture these relationships. If they're sending us people to help and we're (knowingly) co signing their BS, then it's a pretty poor state of affairs isn't it?

I would (and have) signed afterwards and if I saw they were (continually) late/disruptive etc... I would say something and tell them I can't keep signing and to ask someone else because anyone of us (who is an AA member) can sign.

And if it were me (wanting forms signed) and I didn't want to go to AA I'd just sign the form myself and lie about attending. It's easy to forget actions speaking louder than words so if court orders are turning up at meetings, they must (at least) be lonely and looking for some kind of solution.

Over here it is Secretary's who usually signs the forms too. Not the chair person as the chair person isn't always a member of the home group. We also have ones who are on waiting lists to get liver transplants and have hospital forms that need signing.

Ribeye

I'd sign it and let them do whatever they wanted.

I'm not an officer of the court. (problem with authority....naaaaah.)

If a person is attending AA meetings to avoid jail and they don't see the need to take it seriously, what can I possibly say or do that could help them ? At any given time, most people aren't ready.

Also, most people the court sends aren't alcoholic anyway. They may drink too much and get in trouble, but that doesn't mean they need a spiritual awakening in order to stop drinking. AA works best (imho) when it's one of the last places a person goes. When it's the first most people are just gonna say "I'm not that bad" and file it. Just getting your paper signed and leaving means you know where the meeting is (it's filed).

After reading this thread I kind of feel like a bad citizen though........

Boleo

I have a short speech prepared ahead of time:

"I would be happy to sign your sheet AFTER the meeting."

barb dwyer

I just think of it

if I sign this....
will I be able to look the parent
of the person
they might kill driving drunk later

... in the eye?

Could I say to that parent
"yes I lied about their attendance".

And the answer to THAT ....

is a big No.

*shrug*

24hrsAday

adore: no i would not.. i have "chaired" many meetings and i never sign any slips until at least half way through the meeting. it is not my fault that the courts order people to go to A.A.

Mark75

My brother, AA 23 years, won't sign them at all. That's his perogative and I don't question it. He says it's better to give a resentment than get one. It took me a while to figure that out... I mean, c'mon, no need to be an a-hole about it. As I read this thread and consider it fully, I see what he means!

Mark

FightingIrish

I would sign regardless, I think. I know tons of people who are sober and productive members of A.A. who came in on court slips and cheated the system until something took hold.

jimhere

At my home group, we pass a basket at the beginning of the meeting. The basket has a sign on it that says "Attendance Slips Only. This is Not Seventh Tradition." Before the basket is passed the format says "Please put your attendance slips in the basket. They will be signed and the basket will be on the table near the door. If you wish to leave, please do so quietly."

We don't believe in making anyone sit through an entire meeting if they don't want to. We believe that meeting attendance should be voluntary.