toomuchdrama

If interested in talking/chatting about the failure of the OXFORD Group and how that relates to today in AA, please follow the local Blog entry labeled toomuchdrama in the Blog Lists provided on this site.

Your input and feedback is very much needed to save a life...

smacked

If the life of someone is threatened, I believe they might need more help than us reading your blog about AA's supposed downfall. I read it.. a lot of it makes no sense to me.

I do not use AA in my recovery, but I simply cannot follow your blog post logically.

Be well, and I hope whoever's life is hinging on this stunt is helped... or something.

tommyk

Good read, thanks for the blog entry.

It makes me appreciate the AA meetings we have here and everything AA does for me.

Sucks to be where ever you are, but hopefully it will improve.

I'd suggest hitting some different meetings.This whole thing sounds something like a person who flunks out of one college and therefore condemns all colleges.

Boleo

The Oxford Group fell apart mainly because Frank Buckman tried to personally reform the Nazi's. Once he became associated as a "Nazi sympathizer", the Oxford group was doomed.

Thanks to the 12 traditions nothing like that could happen to AA.

keithj

A little too much drama for my taste.

joedris

I'm not sure what your point is in all this. If AA is collapsing, somebody had best warn GSO. I'm sure they'd love to know. As to the Oxford Group, Bill W. chose to leave, he wasn't asked to. Among other things that Bill has issues with was that Catholics couldn't belong to the Group, and that the Group's pursuit of perfection conflicted with his idea of progress, not perfection.

bugsworth

I think understanding the time period and the history surrounding the oxford group sheds light on the ideology that grew from it. There is much information about the oxford group and Wilson that helps us understand the dogma which is still present in the rooms today. I'm not sure if understanding any of it will save a life but it does help when one has legitimate questions about the program.

FightingIrish

Thanks for the link and the heads-up. Kinda short on specifics, but you seem like you are trying to be helpful, so thanks. Gotta get some work finished up so I can go make coffee at our beginner's meeting tonight...takes a while to brew that much coffee, so I don't want to be late!

freya

Well, I guess I look at it pretty much like I look at worrying, obsessing, futurizing and/or catastrophinzing about anything. If that "thing" is important to me and, in some sense, "my business," then I need to consider carefully what my rightful part and responsibility is in trying to protect and/or save and/or fix it is. If I discern that I have a part, then I need to do my part.

Beyond that, I need to live and enjoy and appreciate my life and all of the blessings in it right here and now and turn what may or may not happen in the future over to HP. If a "doomsday" -- of any type -- is going to come, it's going to come whether or not I let my worrying about make me irritable, restless, discontent and/or hysterical today.

freya

yeahgr8

Wow i am very lucky, the meetings that i go to (not in the US) are not like that at all, the majority, actually i would say all, are unselfish, tolerant and informed individuals that really want the newcomer to get sober and into the program. For example tonight, in our step meeting, there was a newcomer and so instead of step work everyone went back to step 1 and telling their drinking stories and how they got into AA. There was not one person who raised their eyebrows at this and at the end of the meeting phone numbers were offered, literature and an schedule of meetings. The newcomer kept talking during shares and noone told them off...it was a great meeting and nothing more could have been done to get the new guy in, now it is up to him. My home group is small, between 10-12 people...i did go to one up the coast which had 40 people in and did not like it as much as their seemed to be clicky groups of people all sticking to themselves...but just because it was not for me doesn't matter, it's just a matter of my preference...

Anyway that's just my experience and i hope i never can relate totally to what you have posted in your blog:-)

Taking5

The proper comparison would be between AA and the Washingtonian Movement. The WM lost its singleness of purpose and was so dead that when Bill W and Dr Bob started AA, they had never even heard of it.

Washingtonian movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Oxford Group was never about alcoholism, even though they managed to sober up a few folks. The Oxford Group was much more of a cult than AA (even though AA often gets accused of being a cult) based on the reliance of a single leader - Frank Buchman.

Both Bill W and Dr. Bob gave the Oxford Group credit where credit is due, they just decided to start an organization for alcoholics only, regardless of the specific religion they practiced.

McGowdog

Thanks for saving me the time smacked. I won't bother with the read.

I do use A.A. in my recovery and the thread title just sort of caught my eye.

My attitude is such that A.A. could fall today and I'll be O.K. I'm staying sober no matter what. I'll find another drunk somewhere and a pot of coffee and a Big Book and a resentment and we'll wing it. A.A. can drink for all I care. I'm staying sober no matter what. I hope that y'all that need sobriety will do likewise.

TTOSBT

I know this is not what this thread is about but I noticed this in the blog
"But I will tell you after being sober now longer than anyone else in any group I go to, and most of Akron this year,"
Is this you?? I am just curious as to how many years of sobriety you do have?

And in response to this thread...
I have seen meetings fail and close over personalities but I can not imagine that AA as a whole is going to disintegrate over differences of opinion or spiritual beliefs. That is what we ahve the 12 traditions for. I am not sure about elsewhere but I am very blessed to live in a community that is virtually anal over adherence to these principles.

mistycshore

I haven't read the blog and don't care to. I do believe that AA is shrinking but that's due to two reasons: An artificial inflation (a BOOM) brought on by the recovery craze of the 80s (and all the treatment centers that offered only 12-step treatment); and the increasing diversity of approaches to recovery in realms outside of AA now. I think it is a good thing for AA to get smaller - to recognize its own limitations and focus on its strengths. At any rate, I would surely hate to see AA dissolve - but I also understand that will never happen, no matter what else might happen with AA at the national or worldwide level. Any two people who have a desire to stop drinking, and meet together seeking that end, may call themselves AA. Something kinda cool about that, and I say that as a person who is no fan off AA.

CarolD

:Hmmm....your experience is certainly not mine.

No way is AA collapsing
In the past 10 years my home group has almost
tripled in membership I estimate over half
now have 5+ years of continious sober time.

We have added 12 more weekly meetings to
our calander .....now total 21. AA is alive and
flourishing in my small town.

If AA is not for you....that's ok with me.
Please do find something that will benefit you.

Where you see doom and distruction
I see hope and solid recovery.....

toomuchdrama

Interesting response. So far, most have ignored or even refused to read the questions asked? Is that in its self not contempt and narrow minded? I did not present this to debate the repeat,repeat, repeat of AA slang. My hope is to get an educated and sober minded talk about the fall of AA from its day of stability. The traditions are failing to support the movement without modification. Simple example; does your meeting have a group ID, GSR, Literature, Treasure ? Just to name a starting pont. If so, God bless you. If not, Dont lie about it or hide behind excuses - Close the Meeting or Fix it!

So far a couple of you have stated the theme of what I asked. For the others, my guess is, you may just be that generation I spoke of...

Soberiety Date: Sept. 1974 - No relapses, the problem has been removed. Not ego or any other tag you wish to jump with, simple sobriety fact.

CarolD

Well...
I did read your blog and see no point in replying to
your opinion on AA. I do not debate AA nor
do I find it necessary to discuss your personal views.

I am moving this thread into our Alcoholism 12 step Forum
where more AA members will notice it.
Obviously....it's an AA matter.

Congratulations on your sober years...

Mark75

I don't know... I haven't been around that long.

I do know this... There is a core of strong AA's at my home group and there is an awesome group of AA's here on this forum that very much believe in the program of AA as outlined in the first 164 pages of the Big Book.

The world can be thrown into a nuclear apocalypse and if there is a copy of the big book somewhere and some recovering alcoholics, AA won't die...

And if it does, maybe McGowdog will share his pot of coffee with me and we can read about the solution...



Hey, we've talked a lot here in this forum about the fellowship and the problems we all see at meetings... I am grateful to have a strong home group... with a group ID, GSR, Literature in the back and someone to count the dollar bills.... But, I don't care a whole lot about our ID or who counts the money... What is the sobriety like at my meeting? Are we discussing the solution or wallowing in self pity...

We had an awesome closed Big Book study group meeting last night...We read chapter two and people shared the message as they experienced it. We said the Lords Prayer at the closing....

AA ain't dyin'

Mark

Freedom1990

Absolutely we have a group ID. It goes on the checks for our quarterly contributions to district, area assembly, GSO, and the central office.

We also just elected a new GSR, Alternate GSR, and one of our former GSR's was elected as the new area delegate at the last district meeting. I stepped in as alternate district secretary until new district officers take over in January 2010.

Our new area delegate is also my home group secretary, I am the treasurer. We not only have plenty of literature available at our meetings, we keep literature stocked at the court house, all doctor's offices, the mental health center, and we make darned sure we have plenty of Big Books in stock for the newcomer. If they can pay for it, fine. If they can't, that's fine too.

Any more questions?

Firehazard

Baa Hummbug