McGowdog

What do you think of this? Some meetings I've gone to use this before they close with the Lord's Prayer. Not all.

I'm curious to where it comes from and why it came about.

Any thoughts? Is it mainly for gossip or for personal or A.A. anonymity? Is it necessary?

justanothrdrunk

I too have heard it at some meetings while not at others. All part of the group conscious as to what's part of the meeting or not.

As far as its derevation, I have no idea.

For me, it goes without saying anyway. It means, to me, that AA is supposed to be a safe place for everyone to be rigorously honest and that those listening may be trusted with any information I choose to share.

I don't think it means that whatever is heard may never ever be repeated by another. Lots of times I hear things at meetings that are worth discussing with other AAs, my sponsor, etc. When talking with someone who was at the same meeting and heard the same thing, no worries. When talking with others after the fact (in a healthy discussion), I won't use names.

In addition, lives cross paths. May it be through work, mutual friends, relatives, what-have-you... I think the main sentiment with that statement is that what I say in this meeting should never come back to haunt me in any way because it was repeated by another to the wrong person.

least

I asked my home group to add that to their meeting's beginning, as I'd heard another member discussing a meeting out in public and not anonymously either. I wish it would be part of every meeting as too many newcomers don't seem to understand the 'anonymous' part of AA and the importance of maintaining confidentiality.

Sugah

Some time ago, our meeting format was updated to include a statement asking that everyone refrain from repeating the names of the people who've attended and what they've shared. This was not a group conscience decision, and a lot of members were uncomfortable with it, so over the course of time, each chair went with his or her own conscience and spoke the line in a different way. It was often stated, "If you've heard something of value to you, please respect the anonymity of the person who said it when you discuss it with others." Etc., etc., etc. That was fine for the home group members who'd been around awhile, but we had some newer home group members who wanted an opportunity to chair, and they often stumbled on the line.

I was charged about a week or so ago in updating the format to more accurately reflect the group conscience. This is how that section shook out:

"AA as a whole seeks to ensure that individual members stay as private and protected as they wish. Please place principles before personalities when sharing what you’ve learned and eliminate the names of those who’ve attended unless you are sure they would not mind."

The italicized line comes directly from "Understanding Anonymity." I personally don't care who says what about what I say or share, but I know that my view is not shared by everyone. So, the above was our compromise. Already in the few meetings we've used it, folks (non-home group members) have offered positive feedback. We're not a secret society, folks.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

freya

Most of the meetings I go to have that incorporated in some way -- most often on a little sign that is placed somewhere that everyone will see it. I've never been at any meeting -- AA or Al Anon where it was actually read or recited as a regular part of the meeting. In fact, I've only heard it said out loud when the topic of anonymity is brought up.

From what I can tell, it means that that nothing heard at a meeting should be repeated in such a way that the anonymity of the person who said it might be compromised.

And that's really the only thing that makes much sense because, obviously, there wouldn't be much sense in going to meetings if nothing anyone said could in any way "leave" the room in which it was said. I mean, lets face it, most of the "classic" program lines, anecdotes and stories would be totally unknown if this was to be taken as rigidly and literally as one could possibly take it.

freya

Taking5

The last two heres are actually hears, as in "hear hear" as in "I heartily agree" or words to that effect. So that means the people that chime in "hear hear" agree that it should all be left in the AA room.

"Hear hear" in my mind is more of a Brit thing. I have seen their parliament make arguments and when someone agrees with someone's argument, they respond "hear hear". It is used much more in the eastern USA than the rest of America in my experience, likely because there is still much more British influence in the culture there.

"Hear hear" can also be used sarcastically, as in "you're full of dog****".

Here is a good link on it:

Hear hear

laurie6781

I first saw the saying:

"What you hear here, What you Say here, when you leave here, let it stay here."

On the wall of a Rec Room in the home of a Secret Service Agent, where lots of higher up mucky muck law enforcement used to get together back in 1964 to relax with 'their own kind' lol

Many years later, I heard it at what was to become my Home Group. A Closed participation meeting.

For me, new to AA, new to recovery, it gave me hope that AA truly was "Anonymous." Made me 'the newcomer' back then feel SAFE.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this saying. A gentle reminder for both new and old alike, leave it in the room.

J M H O


PS I was only 19, and yes I was drinking with them drink for drink. Maybe another reason for the "Motto" to be predominately posted, lol as a reminder to them too.
Love and hugs,

FightingIrish

I can't imagine why there'd be anything controversial about this statement, but I've been surprised before.

I take it to mean that the default position should be not to repeat who shared what in a room to anyone else who wasn't there.

I also take it to pertain to people both in and out of A.A. So I shouldn't tell someone who is not in A.A., "gee, Bob Smith came to the meeting last night, and this is what he said..."

But it also means (for me), that I shouldn't tell someone who missed the meeting last night but is normally there, "gee, John B. came in last night and told the group he was thinking about drinking again..."

I dunno, am I wrong here?

laurie6781

NOPE, you hit the nail on the head I M H O!

Now that saying does not preclude me from having a 'light bulb moment' from something someone shared, and sharing that "moment" with my sponsor or someone else, .................. ie sharing the moment, but NOT WHO said what.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Boleo

I would guess that something like 50% of the meetings that I have been to, closed with the Lord's Prayer. The rest used the Serenity prayer or some other don-denominational prayer.

As far as "Where it comes from"?

Book Of Matthew Chapter 6 Verse 9-13

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

Sugah

I guess it depends to a degree on the thickness of John B.'s skin and the health of the fellowship in your area. Would you be passing this information along out of concern for John B. or to gossip?

Lately, a good friend of mine I've known since way back when we were both contemplating sobriety the first time -- 1987 -- has been struggling. I know this because another good friend of mine (both neighbor and AA member) has told me, knowing that I care a great deal about him. Several of us have discussed the right thing to do for him, and as a result, a couple of the men have gone to see him. He's doing some better now.

I use page 125 and prayer as my guide.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Tommyh

it don`t sound too good to me
my home groups uses this


The anonymity of each person is a prized possession over which he or she has control.We ask you to respect this right by not revealing by name those in attendance at this meeting.
However,feel perfectly free to discuss any thoughts or ideas you may have gained.

I`ll check and see where it came from,and it may have come from ala non

Taking5

Boleo,

I think the OP wanted to now where the "let it stay here, hear hear' closing came from.

I am pretty sure everyone knows where the lords prayer comes from.

Tommyh

from a search at a aa history site

several replies,some of which are not affiliated with AA

**********************************
A few years ago, the local R.C.M.P. entered
the Hells Angels clubhouse in Nanaimo, British
Columbia with a search warrant. In a report,
the police told of finding a sign bearing that
slogan in one of the rooms. It is obvious that
we have no corner on the concept.
**********************************
the Al-Anon anonymity statement (as
used also by many AA groups, reads:
"Whom you see here, what you hear here, when
you leave here, let it stay here. Anonymity
is the spiritual foundation of our program."
**********************************

I've seen in documentaries about the Manhattan
Project the slogan "Whom you see here. What
you see here. When you leave here let it stay
here" posted in the factories.

The Manhattan Project (1941-1946) was the top
secret World War II project in which the United
States, Canada, and the United Kingdom worked
together to produce the first atomic bomb.
Research took place at over thirty sites in
the United States, Canada, and United Kingdom.

If this was a Manhattan Project slogan, it
seems likely that it was they who invented it,
and our Al-Anon sisters and brothers who then
later on "went nuclear" (lol) by adapting the slogan
for their use.
*************************************
The words "Who you see here, what you hear
here, when you leave here, let it stay here"
are printed on a yellow card issued by the UK
General Service office in York. The card
appears on tables at AA groups all over the
UK, and when winding up meetings secretaries
often say, "Please remember the Yellow Card
(reciting the words). Let's make this a safe
place to share."

Travers C., ******* AA old-timer, thought the
message was somewhat sanctimonious. I recall
him saying, "If we mean, 'Don't gossip,' why
not say so."

FightingIrish

Well, either...like I said for me this should be the default position unless there is some other compelling reason to repeat and attribute what someone said in a very specific way.

I have said to my sponsor about one of his other sponsees whom I am also close to, "J. seems a bit grumpy lately, everything OK?" This having been an observation I made from seeing J. in and around meetings. No need to attribute specific things that were said.

I might also say something like, "Jane had a great line at the meeting the other night..." to someone who knows Jane and who wasn't there. (Or I may leave Jane's name out of it...dunno.)

I guess in general before I start repeating specific things that were said and by whom, I need to pause and think whether I need to and, if so, why. That;s all.

jimhere

Everyone chant "Here! Here!"

You forgot that part. How can you forget that part?

Sugah

lol...

BP44

I always thought how nice they put a tradition in there to protect me from AA, then I found out it was the other way around. Anonymity is to protect AA from me. It went even deeper than that, practicing anonymity is a practice in humility. How many times before you got sober did you want recognition for what you did? Honey, I took out the trash for you, now lavish me with praise!!!! In AA we learn to serve without the expectation of reward or recognition.

McGowdog

I love the LP. Notice how they say "in earth" and not "on earth"?

I'm one of about 5 in 2 billion human beings who get this right.

baggervance

We read it at every meeting. It just means to use common sense not breaking someones annonimity.