Sober but not clean
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 196
Resentment is the 'number one' offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick.
the only place a disease is mentioned in the first 164 is on page 64 where it talks about spiritual disease stemming from resentment, I would be interested to hear what the above passage means to everyone?.
the only place a disease is mentioned in the first 164 is on page 64 where it talks about spiritual disease stemming from resentment, I would be interested to hear what the above passage means to everyone?.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
At one point it surely was McGowdog; treatment in the 70's and 80's was a goldmine for facilities focusing on Alcoholism and Drugs. Unfortunately, many companies eventually went out of business because they could not overcome the relapse rate of their clients. I can remember Auto Workers in the Midwest scheduling vacations around treatment stays in AZ, CA and FL. Large corporate companies through their internal employee assistance programs were funneling thousands to Care Units all over the country; sometime three and four times a year. I am not proud of my many treatment adventures, but if a Drunk like me could stay in 26 individual 28 day or longer treatment programs over the years, think of what the truly inspired and creative Drunk could do. I used treatment centers like the 25,000 mile tune up; get in, sober up, rest up, sex up, eat up, talk up and head out.
Knowledge, rest and recuperation from our illness helps, no doubt in my mind, but unless I have made a decision that I am ready for drinking to be done once and for all and I am willing to let a Greater Power run the show, nothing absolutely nothing will keep me from the next drink.
Knowledge, rest and recuperation from our illness helps, no doubt in my mind, but unless I have made a decision that I am ready for drinking to be done once and for all and I am willing to let a Greater Power run the show, nothing absolutely nothing will keep me from the next drink.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Yeah! Now you're talkin'!
I got stuck with an $8000.00 bill from the last treatment center I went to... to "save my job". I'm resentful at the employer that dogged my and stuck me with the bill... 8 months AFTER I had sobered up, and the treatment center... $16,000 for 14 days and I didn't even spend the night there. I was outpatient. They gave me the bill, and by the time I was able to call them up and question them about how I was gonna pay it, it was too late. Inside of 2 weeks, it had gone to the collection agency.
Thank God I have a caring wife who helped me pay it off. I might as well have gotten a DUI. It would have costed the same.
Ef treatment centers! Unless you're indigent, of course. Go to the treatment center so they can tell you to get and stay sober in AA.
Oh, to the OP. Take a shower and use soap. That's my opinion.
To BB Dave: resentments kill.
I got stuck with an $8000.00 bill from the last treatment center I went to... to "save my job". I'm resentful at the employer that dogged my and stuck me with the bill... 8 months AFTER I had sobered up, and the treatment center... $16,000 for 14 days and I didn't even spend the night there. I was outpatient. They gave me the bill, and by the time I was able to call them up and question them about how I was gonna pay it, it was too late. Inside of 2 weeks, it had gone to the collection agency.
Thank God I have a caring wife who helped me pay it off. I might as well have gotten a DUI. It would have costed the same.
Ef treatment centers! Unless you're indigent, of course. Go to the treatment center so they can tell you to get and stay sober in AA.
Oh, to the OP. Take a shower and use soap. That's my opinion.
To BB Dave: resentments kill.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Yea, I had to go to a treatment center to save my career... would I have sobered up without it? Good question... In fact, it's the 20,000 dollar question!!! Oh well, I have a job.
Love your posts McGowdog, maybe I won't always agree, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to!!
Mark
Love your posts McGowdog, maybe I won't always agree, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to!!
Mark
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
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Boy we sure do give words power here but who cares?????
Do you really think that if we erradicated the word "disease" people will really stop blaming their condition on something outside themselves???
Dave, I understand the word disease in reference to alcoholism to imply that we can treat it, that simple. And I think that by using that word where it is illustrates that. What is a spiritual disease?????? Why if we use it there does the word get so much flack when someone uses it in other sentences. I have seen so called "recovered" AA's get upset when someone says something like " My disease is doing pushups". I don't know guys, if my serenity was contingent upon you using proper lingo I know I would have stopped going to any meetings long ago!
Who the hell cares what the Orange papers put out. They have quite a few holes in their accuracy.
Boy we sure do give words power here but who cares?????
Do you really think that if we erradicated the word "disease" people will really stop blaming their condition on something outside themselves???
Dave, I understand the word disease in reference to alcoholism to imply that we can treat it, that simple. And I think that by using that word where it is illustrates that. What is a spiritual disease?????? Why if we use it there does the word get so much flack when someone uses it in other sentences. I have seen so called "recovered" AA's get upset when someone says something like " My disease is doing pushups". I don't know guys, if my serenity was contingent upon you using proper lingo I know I would have stopped going to any meetings long ago!
I guess my whole contention about this is all the flak AA is getting from minions of the Orange Papers and stuff.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by Cubile75 
Yea, I had to go to a treatment center to save my career...
Once I got out of there and got "debriefed" and "deprogrammed", I did manage to lure a couple of new comers to my meeting and that "other" meeting across town.
:rotfxko
Love your posts McGowdog, maybe I won't always agree, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to!!
I don't know guys, if my serenity was contingent upon you using proper lingo I know I would have stopped going to any meetings long ago!
My Monday night group and the one in Denver solves all of this. It's a very experiential experience... if you know what I mean.
Who the hell cares what the Orange papers put out. They have quite a few holes in their accuracy.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by McGowdog
. Let's see how many clients bring their own BB into the treatment center.
My love of the BB developed when I was in a 30 day in-patient rehab. There was a volunteer there by the name of Frank who had been sober several years. Frank brought in a Big Book study one night a week. Attendance was voluntary, and I was there for every meeting. I didn't understand a lot of what was read, but I believed there was a solution.
I will always be grateful to Frank for bringing that BB study into rehab.
My 3rd edition is now falling apart, and I was given a 4th edition, but I keep that one handy in case a newcomer needs one.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by Freedom1990
My 3rd edition is now falling apart, and I was given a 4th edition, but I keep that one handy in case a newcomer needs one.
I went to eBay and bought a nice older 3rd Edition BB with no markings in it for about 3 Bucks. The shipping cost more than that, but now I got a 3rd Edition BB that ain't all marked up.
Like Frank used to say, "It's not what they highlight in those books, it's what they DON'T highlight."
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 196
Merriam Webster definition of dis-ease
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Hmmm. Maybe it is a disease. But try to convince the anti-AA dorks of that.
But what I want to know is who within AA condones the use of the term and why?
Oh, take a shower if you're dirty.
Flashforward to Steve: Head nodding drooler! Good'n!
But what I want to know is who within AA condones the use of the term and why?
Oh, take a shower if you're dirty.
Flashforward to Steve: Head nodding drooler! Good'n!
Last edited by McGowdog; 04-15-2009 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Thousands and millions of years ago into the future...
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
The Orange Papers seem to be born out of some serious resentment. Who says resentment can't be a motivator?
They do actually make a few good points however, but stuff that anyone in AA who isn't a head nodding drooler would already know.
They do actually make a few good points however, but stuff that anyone in AA who isn't a head nodding drooler would already know.
problem with authority
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 870
C'mon man, I think you need to set all of this aside, now. Have a new experience!
.
I think this comes from worshipping Mark H tapes... I regrettably speak this from experience.
My Monday night group and the one in Denver solves all of this. It's a very experiential experience... if you know what I mean
My Monday night group and the one in Denver solves all of this. It's a very experiential experience... if you know what I mean
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Hey, that stuff was great! Until I got sick of it. I used to travel and drive a lot. So I listened to it a lot. But I started to sound like the guy. Then the next year, he'd reverse everything he'd said the year before!
Not that there's anything wrong with growth. But what kind of guy sells tapes of himself? Oh, am I judging again?
Not that there's anything wrong with growth. But what kind of guy sells tapes of himself? Oh, am I judging again?
problem with authority
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 870
I listened to all of them, but I couldn't help but feel like I was listening to Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons...
Originally Posted by McGowdog
Hey, that stuff was great! Until I got sick of it. I used to travel and drive a lot. So I listened to it a lot. But I started to sound like the guy. Then the next year, he'd reverse everything he'd said the year before!
Not that there's anything wrong with growth. But what kind of guy sells tapes of himself? Oh, am I judging again?
Not that there's anything wrong with growth. But what kind of guy sells tapes of himself? Oh, am I judging again?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 196
I am not much of a circuit speaker fan either I heard Chris and Myers R in London a couple of years ago and talked to them a little they were genuinely nice guys,
I do struggle with the attachment of celebrity status to alcoholics though, a woman here showed me her book with Joe and Charlies autographs in, I would have to ask some serious questions of myself if I was signing autographs,or asking for them,
where is the humility?,
I do struggle with the attachment of celebrity status to alcoholics though, a woman here showed me her book with Joe and Charlies autographs in, I would have to ask some serious questions of myself if I was signing autographs,or asking for them,
where is the humility?,
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly and NYC
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by DaveBB164
I am not much of a circuit speaker fan either I heard Chris and Myers R in London a couple of years ago and talked to them a little they were genuinely nice guys,
I do struggle with the attachment of celebrity status to alcoholics though, a woman here showed me her book with Joe and Charlies autographs in, I would have to ask some serious questions of myself if I was signing autographs,or asking for them,
where is the humility?,
I do struggle with the attachment of celebrity status to alcoholics though, a woman here showed me her book with Joe and Charlies autographs in, I would have to ask some serious questions of myself if I was signing autographs,or asking for them,
where is the humility?,
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Tell it to the judge. AA, by it's own traditions does not get into controversial topics like the Disease Concept. Show me anywhere undisputed evidence that AA endorsed, pushed, or otherwise signed off on the "Disease" label! I don't care what it "sounds like"
There is nothing "controversial" about actually knowing what you are talking about or knowing the definition of a word, there just isn't. There is nothing controversial about a simple statement of fact.
Merriam Webster definition of dis-ease
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
Therefore: Alcoholism is a disease.
Quite simple actually, I will leave it to the lawyers to quibble about the exact definition of "is"
I'm not talking about the so called "disease model" or anything else, I'm talking about understanding basic concepts such as looking up words in the dictionary if I don't know what I am talking about, or citing sources, or learning to say, "this is my opinion".
One of the first things my sponsor made me do was buy a dictionary to go with my Big Book so I could look up complicated words that had more then two letters.
He then made me look up definitions of words as we were reading through the Big Book. To someone who knew everything this was extremely humiliating. What made it worse was I was frequently wrong about the meaning of a word. What it taught me to do was utilize a dictionary and learn to cite sources before I shot my mouth off so I didn't look like a complete moron on our nightly gatherings.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Keep me posted on this sick soul would you?
so·ber (sbr)
adj. so·ber·er, so·ber·est
1. Habitually abstemious in the use of alcoholic liquors or drugs; temperate.
2. Not intoxicated or affected by the use of drugs.
I like the way I feel today, the good the bad and the ugly.
Anything, I place inside me to change the way I feel is not remaining true to myself period!!!!!
so·ber (sbr)
adj. so·ber·er, so·ber·est
1. Habitually abstemious in the use of alcoholic liquors or drugs; temperate.
2. Not intoxicated or affected by the use of drugs.
I like the way I feel today, the good the bad and the ugly.
Anything, I place inside me to change the way I feel is not remaining true to myself period!!!!!
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