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bob_sapp 03-11-2009 06:22 PM

People who develop an attitude in sobriety
 
This may come off as a rant...

I have noticed after a few years in AA, that some people who I came in with, or have been around since I started, have developed a bit of an attitude. Granted, I have known a couple people who have been like this the entire time I have been in AA. Guys who have to: have the most money, be the most important guy in the group, boss people around, do others inventory, brag about their service work and how much they do for AA, be disrespectful to their "friends," and generally treat other people like crap under a veneer of great sobriety.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't care if someone wants to be a jerk, become one, whatever. If a person inside or out of AA wants to do this, I don't have time for it and will move on until they change. I didn't get sober to put up with maltreatment.

I have one "friend" in particular, we have been fairly close all through the program. We have a lot in common, but lately he has really changed. He won't pick up his cell when I phone, or phone me back. I mean, ever. We went from being like best friends and reading the big book over the phone, helping each other in dark moments, going to church together, going through the steps... we were pretty close. Now he is just too good for me.

I'll go for lunch with the guy, and have to get there early and order for him because he only has 30 minutes for lunch (he only WANTS to talk 30 minutes, because "time is money"). Then he'll talk "business" on his cellphone for 20 minutes of the time we are there(I'm not making this up), proceed to talk about how god is just filling up his life, tell me about the $50,000.00 he made off the house he just sold, the great girl he is dating, and then as soon as he's finished his sandwich and his glory stories of life, leaves and wants me to pay for the appetizers when he's earning $35/hour to my nothing. I feel ignored and don't even get a word in AND I have to feel like a chump because I'm not a big shot.

He's not the only one... there's been and there are others. I'm just tired of the people who were supposed to be my "friends" ignoring me, refusing to pick up or return calls, and then seeing me for 30 minutes maximum every few weeks (because they are too busy making money and living their amazing life) because that's all they can spare me. All this from single guys in their 20's?

I don't know where this obsession with money comes from, but I see a few guys in the program get it. They also begin to see themselves as better than everyone else. I accept that they are the way they are, but I think it's unfortunate that this is the way things are. It seems like the most genuine people with the best sobriety are often the really old guys, or the guys who have one year or less and are busting their ass to stay sober. I'm tired of guys who think they are too good for fellowship anymore, and only care about money and themselves. It's even more insulting when I get treated better by my friends who are still drinking themselves stupid than I do by the guys who I went through AA and did all this spiritual work with. I can still rely on my sponsor, my sponsee, and other guys on the periphery, don't get me wrong, but the other guys often say the exact same thing as me and I don't get it.

24hrsAday 03-11-2009 06:29 PM

bob: "i don't get it" myself.. i kinda know what you are talking about though. friendship is a 2 way street and if someone is too busy to be my friend... oh,well it's sad to say. but, i would say the hell with 'em..

Ago 03-11-2009 06:36 PM

It's a stage of recovery

Many never come out of it

Reread your post in a few days as if it werew written by someone else, you will say to yourself "huh, those people sound just like alcoholics"

They sound like alcoholics, because they are

Love is an action word, and when I find myself getting "walked on" like the guy you "do" lunch with, it's time to take some action, and show some love for myself by not letting the door hit me where the good Lord split me on the way out the door.

Read "The Family Afterwards" it talks about "the money stage" of recovery, most alcoholics go through it at one time or another, I certainly did, it was tedious.

Pray for these guys then find guys more in line with your sobriety, when we get sober, we grow, not always at the same rate, and not always in the same direction...do however, remember this post,. then if you should ever get bitten by "The Money Bug" at some point in your sobriety (I see it happen at year seven for men frequently) you can have a good laugh.

tommyk 03-11-2009 07:53 PM

Allow others their own journey.

(I have a hard time following my own words though, you're not alone.)

:)

Rob B 03-11-2009 08:10 PM

Bob, where are you at with your daily inventory writing?
I've felt like you in the past, after prayer meditation and writing I was able to see I still had a lot of belief systems that depended on people meeting my expectations and playing the role I assigned them. This never has worked out for me. Today I do it a lot less, it's not completely gone, but my attachment and dependence on people is not what it used to be.

I worked with a book called The Way To Love by Anthony DeMello, it's about dropping belief systems that serve no useful purpose, the teachings in this book are powerful, I think you may benefit from it.

PaulN 03-11-2009 09:00 PM

10-12 Bob ... you know it, I know, all of us who've taken the steps know it.

I used to think I was pretty good in taking the 10th & 11th daily. Key word "think" ... I found a useful little tool (Rob found the same one), it's where I take 10 & 11 on paper.

It was humbling for me ... got me right sized again too, which I needed.

PM me if you'd like a copy of the template ... you can even check out Rob's blog on here ... he was gracious enough to share his.

My thoughts are with you my friend :)

Paul

Tazman53 03-12-2009 03:23 AM

Bob people change sober or not, I quit drinking because I could not handle living that way, when I quit drinking I found out who my real freinds were and who were drinking buddies. I have to say it did not take me long to not miss them or their crap at all.

My sponsor and other old timers I hear share that they do not let folks live in thier head rent free, they simply accept them for who they are and move on. I have had several folks in AA that I thought I was pretty tight with let me down or annoy me, I accepted that dealing with them was just not in my best mental health interest and just let the relationship go..... as with my drinking buddies, it did not take me long to not miss them and I feel more at peace now not resenting what they did or did not do by simply not pursuing a relationship that was not really good for me.

I do sit down and look at myself (inventory) to see if there was something I did to lead to the change, sometimes there is and I make amends or change if needed, but sometimes it is just them and in that case I have to accept them and move on.

Dime 03-12-2009 04:49 AM

Hi Bob,

I find that when I start noticing things like that I get relief reading pages 416 to 420 in the chapter on acceptance. I read those pages every day for four weeks first thing in the morning and I was able to see the positives much better. People and meetings that were driving me nuts no longer disturbed me and it was a lot easier to find the good parts again. When I noticed the good parts again it seemed like the people and meetings had suddenly changed. Well what the heck most of them!:c033:

This also worked well for other aspects of my life that I found disturbing. The tough part of having worked the program is realizing that when I am disturbed I have to work on me. Realizing this though and emotions do not always go hand and hand for me. I have to work at it before my emotions catches up with recognizing the problem is occurring.

RufusACanal 03-12-2009 05:50 AM


Originally Posted by Rob B (Post 2145302)
Bob, where are you at with your daily inventory writing?
I've felt like you in the past, after prayer meditation and writing I was able to see I still had a lot of belief systems that depended on people meeting my expectations and playing the role I assigned them. This never has worked out for me. Today I do it a lot less, it's not completely gone, but my attachment and dependence on people is not what it used to be.

I worked with a book called The Way To Love by Anthony DeMello, it's about dropping belief systems that serve no useful purpose, the teachings in this book are powerful, I think you may benefit from it.

Rob, I just bought that book and awaiting to have it delivered.

nelco 03-12-2009 05:55 AM

Hi Bob,

I too have such a big business to keep running it takes all of my work and energy.
Its called "my own business" .

If this effects you then you need to change, and perhaps remove yourself from them if its taking your peace..Let them be where they are at......live and let live.

bob_sapp 03-12-2009 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by nelco (Post 2145705)
Hi Bob,

I too have such a big business to keep running it takes all of my work and energy.
Its called "my own business" .

If this effects you then you need to change, and perhaps remove yourself from them if its taking your peace..Let them be where they are at......live and let live.

I said in my original post that I accept the way they are today, and will move on until things change. I just think that is unfortunate when some people change for the worse. If I didn't have any reaction then I wouldn't care about their friendship.

CAPTAINZING2000 03-12-2009 09:56 AM

hmm

Ever read that story about a little girl awlking down the road and picking up a snake?

If, you know how some people are, distance yourself from them.

Every one finds their niche in AA. I've told people at a meeting, there's a lot of you, I wouldn't have drank with and by the same token, you wouldn't have liked being with me while drinking either

navysteve 03-12-2009 10:42 AM


I have noticed after a few years in AA, that some people who I came in with, or have been around since I started, have developed a bit of an attitude. Granted, I have known a couple people who have been like this the entire time I have been in AA. Guys who have to: have the most money, be the most important guy in the group, boss people around, do others inventory, brag about their service work and how much they do for AA, be disrespectful to their "friends," and generally treat other people like crap under a veneer of great sobriety.
Damn Bob, sounds like you are talking about our co-founders and early AA members. Or more close to home...

Me???????

I used to get real upset about this and pine for the days when AA was all about something...

Then I learned that we are simply a microcosm of society. Then I learned about Bill W's shortcomings and I was angry at him for setting the bar so low. Then I deified Clarence Snyder as so many do until I learnned he was no saint either. Now I relate to them because of their failings instead of because of some pre-conceived notion of what a person in AA is suppsed to be like.

After all, we are brothers in defects more than we are cousins of virtue.


He won't pick up his cell when I phone, or phone me back
He must be getting sponsored by the same guys in my area. Many of them don't return my calls either. I just stop calling, but when I see them in meetings and they put on a smile and shake my hand like we are old buddies I call them on it.

Alot of people in the area I am in don't realize that I know alot of circuit speakers and AA celebrities ( I don't drop names). I was at a meeting and a guy who has been recorded and parrotted in many meetings mentioned little old me. All of a sudden I had new friends and started getting invites out for coffee, I politely decline if they are the ones who have previously ignored me.

What I am getting at Bob is that AA is full of selfish, self centered spiritually sick people. They deserve our pity more than our contempt, but they also need us. I am not afraid to sit in what I believe to be a sick AA meeting or a crappy one. I can't say that I don't get irritated when there are guys in my area who won't shake my hand because I am not in the right circle of friends because I do. But those same guys are inspiring me to work on my relationship with God more and more. Those guys who show me such behavior that they inspire me to be a better man. Because I realize that without this program I am not too far removed from them.

gravity 03-12-2009 10:55 AM

Your friend reminds me of how I was when I was in my late 20's and 30's (I'm 42 now). It was all about money, possessions, and career. Then alcohol kicked my ass.

I don't know why people change the way they do or why they drift away. It probably has nothing to do with me (I hope! :)). Just a part of life.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you are only getting a snapshot, hearing what he wants to tell you. Who knows what the rest of his life is like? Could be good or bad.

I'll admit that I have not spent as much time with my friends in AA as I used to. Life gets busy. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate what people do for me or that I am unwilling to help others. I explained this to my sponsor and he told me not to worry, that the whole purpose of AA is to get out there and live a good life.

RufusACanal 03-12-2009 11:09 AM

Sounds like me three!

navysteve 03-12-2009 11:09 AM

I relate more to Bill than I do Bob because Bill was a power hungry Jerk! But through Bill we get to see the miracle of the program! He wanted fame and was offered Man of the Year but turned it down. How that must have driven him nuts. He was offered an honorary Law Degree from Yale and he turned it down. Sometimes our biggest liabilities open the door to great self sacrifice. Steps 6 and 7 seem to come into play here.

I remember a good sponsor said to me after I had done some intense Step 6 and 7 work. I was sure I had turned over my defects with all my heart. Right after this great revelation I walked out of this church I was in where my divine moment I had just recently experienced, got into my car only to find my defect raising its head in defiance. I called my sponsor and told him of my shame and disappointment. He said that right at that moment, some other AA was praying for patience and God was going to give it to them through me!

The moral was, that our defects can be put to "His" use as well.

lizw 03-12-2009 12:49 PM

Dunno about anyone else but I came from this crazy family where (in my mind at least) the worse a person treated me, the more attention I thought I was getting which filled my need, as a person, to be loved.

AA is full of people who will treat you badly, like you said, if you let them.
I have also heard once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern and if someone does the same unpleasant thing to me three times, I try to walk away and let them go.

This doesn't always work out that way though and sometimes it takes me more than three times to act, because I like to play god and try to change other people.

It's a hard thing to learn this kind of stuff and I assume I will still be learning it in 20 years. My alcoholic head says I should be perfect at doing it by now but alas I am still human.

Take it easy

IO Storm 03-13-2009 12:32 AM

bob...

Could this be a turning point, or catalyst of some sort in your life..for change?

I read your post a couple of times..and it seems your friends are living their lives,

on the path (they) seem determined to follow at this moment..doing well, and

not "on fire spiritually" or for AA as they once were.

At the end of your post, you mention the oldtimers..and the new ones.

They seem to still have that "first love"..the spark that you have.

Maybe you want to offer yourself further and deeper in the way of service

to your fellows. If your heart is not in money, advancement, ..these superficial

things you regret your friend is into, then what are you into? What would you like to

change, see happen, where could you make a difference?

Find out. It could be a breath of fresh air.

:hug:

bob_sapp 03-13-2009 10:34 AM

By september I'll probably have entered my career as a slave and could be living anywhere. If I'm working 84 hour weeks 2 on 1 off I doubt I'll care about anything anymore let alone if people call me back. Until then I'm taking a maximum course load at university and I'm looking for p/t work to fill up my friday/saturday nights.

I obviously care about money too, but I have no illusions about it either. Everyone is into money these days, it's the attitude I'm on the receiving end of that I could do without. I just went out with one of my old drinking buddies last night who is making more money than the AA guy I mentioned, is busier and is farther ahead in all aspects of life except AA/sobriety/spirituality. I haven't experienced any of what I described in my OP with him.


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