Why do we treat this condition with such an antiquated method?
 

I get the core principles of AA - it was a good thing at the time. Back then things were very rudimentary and we did not have the science we do now. My question is how is it that we treat a condition based on a 70 year old book? For everyone who subscribes to this condition as being a disease, would you go back in time and treat cancer in the same way? Would you not want the most recent science to treat you? Anyway, I was reminded of an issue I have with AA and present this question to its followers. I am soon to enter a rehab and looked at the schedule. They say I can do "deviations," but I am afraid I am going to end up overpaying for one giant AA meeting, which I can drive two miles down the road and throw a buck in the basket. Been there, done that. I don't mean to offend and am really curious..

You need to go into rehab Katie, I've been reading your threads, please get it sorted :ghug3

I do look forward to seeing this thread progress though hehe

Ok, I respect that, but my question is still valid and I look forward to responses. This IS going to be a major issue to me. And I agree it will be interesting to see this thread progress through :)

My exgf's brother had the same concerns going into rehab in Gibraltar, a place called Bruce's Farm. He definitely is and was not religious and voiced the same concerns. When he first got there he had a meeting with one of the counsellers and they explained that even though he did not believe in God and thought that it was ridiculous that they should be using a book that was written by some guy who was not even a doctor that he should forget all that side of it and ignore these things completely. The counseller said all you need to do is to turn up to groups and listen, do the things we tell you to do as we are going to give you the tools to live a happy and sober life when you leave. That's it, the rest needs no thought!

Now Paul got thrown out the first time, he left the second and on the third time he stayed the full 90 days, continued to go for counselling and has over a year sober. You would not recognise the guy. I've always liked Paul, most people think he talks far too much, which he does, and wow does he say the most inappropriate things that make me cringe. His view on things seem to have become slightly more rational but are still pretty out there, the difference is now he is an eccentric who is really funny whereas before he was an annoying drunk.

A few years ago i used to walk through town and he would be sitting on a wall drinking beer and would scream out 'Cliff', i would be a little embarassed but would still go and sit with him for a bit. You can imagine the scenario Paul, dressed in a dirty old tracksuit, totally unshaven and quite honestly ponging a little with a can of beer in his hand and me, the senior marketing guy at the biggest gaming company in the country sitting in a suit with my laptop carry case chatting away. Hey i didn't care but must have seemed funny, we did get a few policemen stop and say things like 'Hello Paul, you behaving? Who's your friend?' lol Anyways it is an absolute joy when he shouts my name now and i go over to sit with him still but this time it is at a cafe table and we have a couple of coffes and a chat. Man i miss him actually:-( Will see him in a couple of months when i go back though:-)

That's my only experience with the AA and rehab topic:-)

I've been to Gibraltar. I lived in Spain - Toledo, so am familiar and miss it greatly :)

At any rate, I do really have an issue and am looking for guidance. Don't get me wrong. I have met some wonderful people in both rehab and in AA. But the one thing that really bugs me is this whole antiquated deal. AA is founded in Christianity. Now, perhaps this should be in the secular forum, but I put it here first. I really do have a concern that I am sinking all this money into a place wherein it could just be a giant AA meeting (btw, first one 32 years ago, so I am no stranger to AA).

I think my questions are valid and I've never received a response I thought made sense, aside from my friend who is going to come and put me in rehab. He spent 18 years in AA and left. His life is really pretty good, albeit for an occasional bender.

Katie,we do what we do because it works.The big book ,when it was new,had an answer for alcoholism for the first time in human history.A method that really worked.
Science may find something one day,but it hasn`t yet.I would not like to bet my life just on science.I think science is a good thing,but it just hasn`t sobered up many alcoholics.
Churches are good things,but not too many alcoholics I know got sober there.
When it comes to you getting sober,how important are your problems concerning AA`S beginning`s?

You are in the ocean drowning in a sea of booze,and someone throws you a life preserver,take it,you can worry about who threw it later.It will save your life

There is the answer. I am not a Christian, do not believe anyone walked on water or was raised from the dead three days after they were nailed to a cross, yet, through AA, I found an idea that works for me and has brought meaning to my life beyond my wildest dreams. Not everything that is old is outdated, people still read Plato and find meaning in it. AA is not a religion, it is open to all. If you want to discuss that issue with me in private, please PM me. That issue has a tendency to draw out some irrational posts and I don't have the time to banter with those folks.

The door is open for you...

Katie the simplest answer is because it still works today.

If something works why change it?

Sorry, I know I don't belong over here, but I saw your name, Katie. :wavey:

What I would do is call the place up and ask a thousand questions and voice every single concern that I have.

2 + 2 still equals 4. ;)

When you are totally ready to surrender, AA and rehab will be there for you.

Katie,

70 years is NOTHING. Penicillin was discovered before AA was founded, do you doubt its efficiacy? Is it antiquated?

Even if it is, why slam AA? (you are doing this even if you don't admit it). Just take another path and leave those that use AA to their own devices. I support your sobriety no matter how you get there, but why dis AA or any other method of achieving sobriety?

While I do not normally take a shot at someone's higher power, I think some people are so offended by the thought that there may be a higher power that that they reject AA from the start.

Would this be describing you?

By the way the admission that there may be a higher power is all that is needed for AA's 2nd step.

Very good point and can't argue with this at all. I will try to go to that place with an open mind.

The DR's opinion in the Big Book was written in the late 1930's. It is the medical estimate on our condition and discusses what happens to the body after alcohol is ingested. A craving for more occurs, this craving only happens in alcoholics. This is one of the defining traits of a "real alcoholic".

What interests me is this is as true today as it was then. I can't think of many other medical estimates that have not changed or been altered over the course of 70 years.

We could debate the remainder of the program forever, it will serve no purpose. Don't like AA, don't go. Find something that does work for you.

The best thing I ever heard in an AA meeting was a guy who said he figured all of this didn't come out of Home Depot. I have often thought about that. One looks at the ocean and mountains and it's true. I guess I just get frustrated. I wish I could be magically cured and just be normal.

BTW, I don't mean to diss AA. It does work for people. At times I do think the dominance of AA does prevent other movements from taking hold, however.

I fought it, too, Katie--the book, anyway. My sponsor asked me how badly I wanted to stay sober and suggested I give it a chance. Glad I did.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

AA is "antiquated??

Last time I checked into antiquity, 70+ years is an infancy. FAR from antiquated.

But more importantly, true spiritual wisdom is essentially timeless.
AA offers connection to timeless wisdom to those who want it.

Science may have advanced in terms of isolating drugs, identifying patterns, and intervening in certain processes,but science alone is not exact nor is it as holistic as alcoholism. The part of the word "alcoholism" that AA is perfectly adequate for is "holism".

Katie rehabs are for many not a waste of money, they are a safe place that allows one enough sober time to think clearly and begin to make decisions on thier path of recovery.

So many people with very little time sober decide that the program of AA or what ever is not the one for them and simply go back to drinking, then they try another program and after a week or 2 sober decide that one is not for them either and go back to drinking again. It becomes a vicous cycle.

I know people in AA that went through as many as 5 different rehabs, would go to AA for a month or so, decide that drinking was a good idea and back out they went, today many of them finally got it, came back into AA and have been sober for many years.

The idea behind a rehab is not to cure one of alcoholism, it is just to get them to the point where they have been sober long enough to think kind of clearly and decide what path of recovery they want to follow or to simply go back to drinking.

Excellent post and thank you. That is why I am putting myself in the hands of strangers for 90 days. I know 30 will barely scratch the surface. This will be my 5th rehab, but I figure the others really don't count. I actually did have over two years of sobriety in AA before. I went to one meeting a week and out for coffee after the meeting. I think the "meeting after the meeting" was more important than the meeting. It's there where you get to connect with other people with the same issue. And maybe that's what it comes down to - there is a reason that Bill Wilson sought out another person to do this deal.

Katie when I was in detox they pushed 90 or more meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor.

Well my butt was throughly kicked after a 40 year drinking career, yet I only had 2 thoughts running through my head the day I got out of detox:

1. I want a drink!
2. I did not want to drink!

I was given the Gift Of Desperation, I was desperate enough to stay sober that I was willing to do what ever I was told would help me to stay sober!

Dr. said you need to go to detox.

I went!

Detox said 90+ meetings in 90 days & get a sponsor.

I went to 90+ meetings in 90 days & got a sponsor.

Sponsor & those old timers suggested taking the steps.

I took the steps with my sponsor.

My sponsor when we were taking step 12 said "Pass it on!"

Today I am as they say, happy, joyous, & free!! Free of alcohol and free of self!

I do pass it on today, I go to at least 3 meetings a week and learn from others how to live life on lifes terms and share what I have experienced in my new sober life. I also sponsor other men. Sponsorship I have found to be the most rewarding thing I do in my life.

Katie just keep an open mind, be willing to do what ever you feel you need to do to stay sober and gaing peace & serenity in your life.

The road is not smooth, nor is it without potholes, you see I have found that life is life, but it sure is easier and far more pleasant sober then it use to be.

The greatest thing I can share with you is that you is that you will not be on that road alone, reach and and take the hand of that person in front of you and let them help you along the way, then take the hand of the person behind you and help them along there way!

Remember you are never alone unless you choose to be alone, my experience in AA has been, if I need help, all I have to do is ask for it and I get it.

Save yourself some money & time.

Why go to AA or to treatment if you already have the answer?