SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/)
-   Alcoholism-12 Step Support (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism-12-step-support/)
-   -   What is the Ego? (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism-12-step-support/164032-what-ego.html)

adore79 12-09-2008 11:54 AM

What is the Ego?
 
Hi everyone. I am not in AA, but I have gone to AA meetings and I read AA literature, and I read this forum and use many AA concepts in my recovery.

My question is basically, what do you think the ego is in regards to the AA program? It seems to me that AA considers a big ego as being a bad thing, that the person with it is self-centered and thinks that she is more powerful than her HP. And a person with a deflated ego is a humbled person and more willing to turn it over to their HP.

When I hear the word ego I think of the Freudian concept of the id, ego and superego, where:

Id: is our basic primal selves, our base desires and drives, the id always wants immediate gradification.

Superego: Our "concience," our idea of right and wrong that is taught to us by our parents and our cultural beliefs.

Ego: The mediator between the id and superego, it is our rational selves.

So, our id might want us to eat a candy bar while our superego thinks it should be a salad, so our ego might decide to eat half the candy bar instead.

Or, an example for alcohol: our id wants a buzz, our superego tells us no, and it is up to our ego to decide if we drink or not.

Do you think that we alcoholics have a naturally weak superego, or ego, or both, according to the Freudian theory?

If you want to read more about the Freaudian theory, here is one link:

Thank you for any thoughts and have a great day!

Astro 12-09-2008 12:11 PM

Deep thinking there Felicia, I don't know if I'm sober enough to answer this :lmao

j/k

I try to keep it as simple as possible. One of the acronyms (or "alconyms" as they're sometimes called) for ego is Edging God Out. So my understanding of that would be that I try to live my life according to my will rather than His will. I play the director and try to run the show, or I'm the driver rather than the passenger enjoying the ride. Either way, I'm living my life based on self-will rather than turning it over to a Power greater than myself.

What I know for sure is I tried using my will for 27 years, and you can see where my best thinking got me.

I loved this thought and want to thank you for sharing it:

It seems to me that AA considers a big ego as being a bad thing, that the person with it is self-centered and thinks that she is more powerful than her HP. And a person with a deflated ego is a humbled person and more willing to turn it over to their HP.

Yes, it seems that the more humility I have, the less I struggle with everyday life.

Peter 12-09-2008 12:43 PM

I believe the literature speaks about the "overinflated ego" or "self will run riot".

There is nothing wrong with ego or self will. It is the obsessiveness of it that got me in trouble.

justanothrdrunk 12-09-2008 12:50 PM

My understanding of Frued's theory is that the Id is inate or instinctual while the Superego is learned. Meaning, all the functions of the Id are present at birth.

With the Superego being the moral center (according to Freud), it seems to me that the "ego" of which is referred to in the rooms of AA actually is the Superego (to some degree anyway).

I don't think any of the elements (Id, Ego, Superego) can be "weak" in an otherwise healthy person. The program of AA sets a sort of moral standard. And when member's own moral standard (the Superego) differs in certain ways, one is said to have a problem with their "ego."

The challenge then is to retrain the Superego to establish a moral code that is consistent with that of AA.

For example, one might think there are times when it's appropriate to be dishonest. It's their Superego that has developed this difference between right and wrong. But the program of AA teaches that members must be "rigourously honest with themselves." Thus it's the Superego that needs the adjustment.

sugErspun 12-09-2008 01:04 PM

What a question! So simple..yet very deep at the same time.

The only thing that comes to mind is "that which I observe myself with", naturally this leads to the core belief that I have that I am separate from everything else. ie - "I am a distinct entity from even my own body".

I took the following from Andrew Cohen (a new age spiritual teacher here in the U.S.)

"Ego is that emotional and psychological knot in consciousness that is the fundamental cause of the sense of separation from all of life. From the spiritual perspective, this is defined as pride, self-importance, and the narcissistic need to always see oneself as being separate – separate from others, separate from the world, separate from the whole universe. Ego is a love-denying obsession with separation, narcissism, and self-concern."

Somehow that makes sense.

Ago 12-09-2008 01:41 PM

"The Feeling of conscious separation from"

hehe just read that a few minutes ago in Chuck C's book, covers it for me

Tommyh 12-09-2008 01:42 PM

my selfishness and self centeredness = my alcoholic ego

MCH 12-09-2008 01:47 PM

Ego is at the root of all my character defects. It gives me an elevated sense of me and minimizes everything else to dust. God is absent in my ego and fear seems to fuel it.

God keeps me out of it. He is my only redeemer. I cannot escape ego through self, I must go to and through God. Conscience contact does that for me.

I've gotta live this, I can't just wish it or talk it and believe me, I've tried that and it seems that my ego is out to get me. Given enough rope, I'll hang myself. I'm grateful and relieved that God is in my life and His heart is my home.

Sheryl85 12-09-2008 02:15 PM

One definition that I really like is, "Ego is taking credit for God's work and Humility is giving God credit for His work."

As with several other people who have posted, my over inflated ego has been one of my leading character defects. The middle part of the Steps helps to deliver me from the clutches of ego.

Love the topic.

gravity 12-09-2008 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by sugErspun (Post 2017417)
"Ego is that emotional and psychological knot in consciousness that is the fundamental cause of the sense of separation from all of life. From the spiritual perspective, this is defined as pride, self-importance, and the narcissistic need to always see oneself as being separate – separate from others, separate from the world, separate from the whole universe. Ego is a love-denying obsession with separation, narcissism, and self-concern."

Somehow that makes sense.

Makes sense!

It's all about me!

To me :), my ego is those thoughts (and emotions) that keep me separate from life. It's really an illusion. Living in the past, fear of the future, thinking I'm better than others, thinking I'm inferior, wanting to always be right, self-hatred...all thoughts, not reality. It's no wonder I used to feel so lonely.

My ego blocks me from living a spiritual life, a good life. I can't truly live in accordance with spiritual principles if I only care about myself - it's impossible.

adore79 12-09-2008 02:55 PM

Thanks!

I like the spiritual definition that some of the replys have been talking about: the ego is the scence of "self" that keeps me from feeling connected to all things. That makes sence to me. I read that our sense of self comes from the left half of our brain and our ability to really live in the moment and comprehend that we are connected to everything comes from the right side of the brain. I wish I could do away with the left half of my brain!

Justanotherdrunk- I like the idea that we are not weak in our morals just because we have a drinking problem, but that it just takes a readjustment to get better.

I guess the Freudian stuff doesnt really matter but I've been through lots of psychotherapy and I just kinda tend to think in terms of id, ego and superego. I like the concept of ego as self a lot more.

Dean62 12-09-2008 03:09 PM

Great question Felly!

Great answers too. I love ego = separation. So simple.

I don't know if I came into this life without one or it was empty, either way it has grown unchecked throughout my life. Separating as has been said or isolating me. An eye opener for me Felly was when my sponsor told me low SELF esteem and SELF pity are a huge part of ego (for some of us).

The BB mentions "freedom from bondage of self". That's a big part of what recovery is to me.

Sorry I don't know the Freud thing.

adore79 12-09-2008 04:23 PM

It is different for different people, but when I was a kid my parents rarely ever drank and never became drunk. I also learned from what I heard and experienced around me in everyday life that it is okay to drink, and it is okay to get drunk at parties, but it is not okay to be a drunk or an alcoholic so naturally, my superego, or moral compass, developed the notion that it is fine to drink socially, to get drunk at parties on occassion, but not to become an alcoholic. Of course, I never knew what an alcoholic was, I guess in my mind it was just a person who was always drunk, homeless, dirty, a bum. As long as I wasnt a drunk, I could drink.

Being a drunk or alcoholic (which I believe I am) my id, or basic drive, is to drink all the time. The needs of id come from genetics and hormones, and physiology, the cards we are dealt when we are born...Whatever I am doing, wherever I am, my id is screaming at me for alcohol.

When our id and superego have conflicting needs, that causes us anxiety. I have anxiety over drinking because I have, on one hand, an id that is always screaming for alcohol, and on the other hand I have a superego that believes I should be able to drink as long as I am not living on the streets or a bum. In the middle is my ego, my rational self, which knows that I am a not only an drunk but I am a bum (cause I am, I have no money and I would be living on the streets if it wasnt for my parents.) One reason that I have low self esteem is because my superego (that says that it is not okay to be a bum) is conflicting with my ego (that says that I AM a bum.)

So, I guess, like justanothrdrunk said, if I can adjust my superego to be at peace with my ego, I will no longer have anxiety over drinking. I guess it must be the process of working the steps that does this and that is why it seems that many people who work the steps seem to find some peace with themselves.


In a way, I guess my superego has been shifted somewhat through meditation, prayer, holding on to the feeling that I am intimately linked to all things, being kinder to myself on a daily basis, and the joy I get at interacting with my friends here at SR. There is also the fact that since I stopped drinking, I have felt better physically and my medications help keep my mental illnesses in check.

Wow, I am really glad I posted this topic, I was hesitant to at first, but the responses here have really helped me to work through things a little.

doorknob 12-09-2008 05:27 PM

The psychological definition makes much more sense to me. That was my major, too. Thanks, Felly. :)

Dean62 12-09-2008 05:30 PM


One important reason why the great spiritual teachers have always enjoined upon their disciples the need of surrendering the ego, of giving up the self, is that when the mind is continually preoccupied with its own personal affairs, it sets up a narrow limitation upon its own possibilities. It cannot reach to the impersonal truth, which is so different and so distant from the topics that it thinks about day after day, year after year. Only by breaking through its self-imposed pettiness can the human mind enter into the perception of the Infinite, of the divine soul that is its innermost being.
Paul Brunton

I had to come back and post this one. Hope it helps.

Tommyh 12-09-2008 05:51 PM

I`m glad you posted this too because it brings up a great many topics relavent to living soberly and peacefully for me.I`m not too educated on super egos,etc,but I had anxiety over not drinking.I realize today I had a lot of anxiety before I ever took my first drink,and I believe that anxiety caused obsessions and a lot of self pity,and fear.Drinking relieved those things.I loved the effect booze gave me then.While the 12 steps and the AA way of life has relieved these things a lot,I realized one day after I had been sober a number of years some of those things still existed.I think I could have ignored it as best I could and continue on as I was in AA and it would have continued to get better.However,I found a non medical program outside AA that uses C.B.T. that really gave me a giant help.Today life is so much better.

When our id and superego have conflicting needs, that causes us anxiety. I have anxiety over drinking

the ego is the scence of "self" that keeps me from feeling connected to all things.

before I ever took a drink,I never felt connected to others,I felt like a outcast.Drinking helped me feel connected at first,so I felt like I was one of the others,I was at peace for a while.
The booze finally quit working.Sobriety has brought a lot of inventory for me concerning these feelings.My oldtimer friend Fred uses the I.S.M of alcoholism for saying "I Separate Me" from God and all others.When I am feeling separate,the ism is trying to make a comeback in my life.
I feel like our deepest human need is to feel loved,needed and wanted by our fellows which is really a deep yearning for my God...Only when I rest in God can that really peace happen for me.

just my thoughts and a little experience.....tks for the post!

BP44 12-09-2008 08:36 PM

Mind made false sense of self.

jimhere 12-09-2008 09:20 PM

I try not to think in terms of "bad or good" anymore. We often think of the ego as "bad." Yet a healthy ego is necessary to survival. Without an ego, I wouldn't brush my teeth or take a bath. Hell, I wouldn't be typing this if I didn't have an ego. Many of the movers and shakers that get things done in a positive way get those things done with a healthy sense of self. Once in a while, I get asked to do things in AA, like speak. It is my ego that gets in the car and drives over there. You see, I gave all of me, the "good" and the "bad" to God. God uses what is at hand and uses me as I am, including my ego. The ego only gets me in trouble when it becomes the master and not the servant. When the ego gets out of proportion is when the trouble starts.

But you can't smash your own ego. At least I can't. I can't bring about my own surrender. Thank God for alcohol, The Great Persuader. It brought me to a place of being willing to say "I give up, I can't do it. I need some help." After the initial surrender, the trick is to live a surrendered life. That comes about through the practices of inventory, confession, prayer, meditation, and service. Even then, the ego isn't smashed, it is only in its right place. And it manifests itself in subtle ways. Which is why inventory is so vital. I can't smash my own ego, but I can see what it is up to and then laugh at it. Since I can't defeat it, I may as well make friends with it.

For me, one of the surest signs that the ego is re-emerging is resentment. I am not getting the recognition I deserve, I am not getting paid enough, I, I, I,.....You see, low self-esteem is not the problem. Resentment is too much self-esteem, an ego that is out of proportion. Lack of proportion in my thinking has been one of my problems. One that can lead to a drink.

When I have a resentment and write inventory it plays out like this: This first two columns are I resent her because she left. The third column is the seven areas of self that my ego will use to define me and my relations to others. Self-esteem is the role I assign myself. Self-esteem: I am the best boyfriend she's ever had. Pride is how I think others should see me in that role. Pride: She should realize that I'm the best boyfriend she's ever had. It doesn't look like low self-esteem is the problem here. Ambition: I want her to come back so I can be complete. Security: I need her to come back so I can be OK. Anytime the ego can convince me that I need anything outside of myself to be Ok, it has won. Personal Relations: Sex Relations: A real man would just ghet her back or maybe get another woman, to hell with her.

If you look at how the first three columns play out, the third column is the lies that I base my life on. I am the actor that not only wants to be the director, I want to write the script and assign the roles. And then I become offended when others don't play the role I've assigned them and when I am not recognized in the role that I've assigned myself. It is really funny when I see this. And when you can laugh at yourself, your ego is back in its proper place.
Jim

Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

Tazman53 12-10-2008 02:51 AM

Per Webster:


Main Entry: ego
Pronunciation: \ˈē-(ˌ)gō also ˈe-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural egos
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, I — more at i
Date: 1789
1: the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world
2 a: egotism 2 b: self-esteem 1
3: the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that serves as the organized conscious mediator between the person and reality especially by functioning both in the perception of and adaptation to reality — compare id , superego
— ego·less adjective
I concur with what Music says, one must have an ego in order to function in life, I have heard it said in the rooms in my area by some of the old timers that humility is when one's ego is deflated enough to allow thier HP room to enter into them and give them guidance.

Before I worked the steps, I had an ego that was inflated beyond beleif, I was right in all matters, the world revolved around me! It was all about me, yet for some odd reason..... I never felt "good enough"! I some how always thought that I could become good enough if I had MORE!!!!! More beer, more women, more money, more everything! It was all about me!!!!

As I worked the steps and experienced that physcic change, it was no longer all about me, I became "a part of". A part of AA & a part of the world. Surprisingly I felt "good enough", I was okay with me, I found peace and happiness.

I keep in mind that there is a HUGE difference between humility and humiliation.

AW2486 12-10-2008 05:50 AM

me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me

Just in case you were wondering.. its all about me


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:06 AM.