Problem drinker vs true alcoholic
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by bugsworth 
Once the line into full blown alcohlism has occurred the ability to stop drinking by one's own power is GONE.
Where is this line??? Who determines how bad it has to get before one crosses the line??
If one has the ability to get sober without the steps they never crossed that line? That is absolutely false.
It is also an insult to all those who have gotten sober without the steps and there are many good people here at SR who have decided that aa is not for them and THEY ARE SOBER. Maybe they really weren't alcoholics afterall....
.
Where is this line??? Who determines how bad it has to get before one crosses the line??
If one has the ability to get sober without the steps they never crossed that line? That is absolutely false.
It is also an insult to all those who have gotten sober without the steps and there are many good people here at SR who have decided that aa is not for them and THEY ARE SOBER. Maybe they really weren't alcoholics afterall....
.
This thread was not started to create an argument about the merits of AA. I placed it under the 12 step support forum because I did not want it to turn into an arguement about the merits of AA or religion, so can we please refrain from going there with this thread?
The thread is about the difference between being a problem drinker and being an true alcoholic. A problem drinker has not lost the ability to stop drinking on their own. The true alcoholic has lost that ability. Does that mean AA can not be beneficial to both, NO!. AA can and is of great benefit to those who choose to utilize it to find sobriety.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Well Said
Originally Posted by nandm
Bugs, it is not about the steps. It is about the person losing the ability to stop drinking using just their willpower alone. That is the line. There are people who stop drinking without using the steps or AA that have crossed the line into true alcoholism.
This thread was not started to create an argument about the merits of AA. I placed it under the 12 step support forum because I did not want it to turn into an arguement about the merits of AA or religion, so can we please refrain from going there with this thread?
The thread is about the difference between being a problem drinker and being an true alcoholic. A problem drinker has not lost the ability to stop drinking on their own. The true alcoholic has lost that ability. Does that mean AA can not be beneficial to both, NO!. AA can and is of great benefit to those who choose to utilize it to find sobriety.
This thread was not started to create an argument about the merits of AA. I placed it under the 12 step support forum because I did not want it to turn into an arguement about the merits of AA or religion, so can we please refrain from going there with this thread?
The thread is about the difference between being a problem drinker and being an true alcoholic. A problem drinker has not lost the ability to stop drinking on their own. The true alcoholic has lost that ability. Does that mean AA can not be beneficial to both, NO!. AA can and is of great benefit to those who choose to utilize it to find sobriety.
Jim
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by bugsworth
I understand that this is about the problem drinker and the alcoholic.
Like I stated before many "true" alcoholics have stopped on their own, nothing did the stopping for them.
Like I stated before many "true" alcoholics have stopped on their own, nothing did the stopping for them.
I realize you do subscribe to the 12 step way of life.
With that in mind I will choose not to respond to your posts on this thread as it is in relation to AA and how the problem drinker and true alcoholic relate in that environment.
I choose not to go into the religious forum and disrupt their threads with my view on religion as I do not subscribe to religion. It is too bad that you feel it necessary to choose to come into the 12 step forum and disrupt our threads.
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nadmn, if it were only true that these beliefs stayed in this forum, they don't, they spill over into other forums as well. But out of respect for you and many others I am sure, I will leave you to your 12 step way of life.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by bugsworth
nadmn, if it were only true that these beliefs stayed in this forum, they don't, they spill over into other forums as well. But out of respect for you and many others I am sure, I will leave you to your 12 step way of life.
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Questions to consider
In Pondering where "the line" is, our basic text offers some questions that do not require answers, they require experience. I post this to help those who are honestly looking at their relationship with alcohol:These are paraphrased, the copyright issue we have been dealing with should not apply, if so, this was taken from a 1st edition.
Can you or could you control the amount you drink once you start to drink?
Do you believe that physical craving would occur if you took a drink today?
Could you take 2 drinks a day for 30 days? – No more, no less?…
Does your experience abundantly confirm that once you put alcohol into your system, something happens in the bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually impossible for you to stop?
Did you ever drink when you didn’t want to? – Even after swearing drinking off forever?
Do you believe that Personal Knowledge is of no use with respect to your drinking?
Do you believe that you will be unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge?
Do you believe you have lost the power of choice in drink?
Do you believe that you have only two choices today?
A.)To live spiritually or B.) To die an alcoholic death?
Do you believe you have a spiritual malady which creates unmanageability in your life?
Do you believe that lack of power is your dilemma?
Do you believe that a time may come where you will have no effective mental defense against the first drink?
Do you believe your defense must come from a Higher Power?
Do you believe that you have to find a power greater than yourself which will solve Your problem?
It is true, Only the individual can decide they are alcoholic. However these questions will help anyone who is honestly looking for their truth. My experience confirms I am alcoholic, as does the cumulative experience of every individual I have sponsored through the work. I have had to tell a few people they do not fit the description of alcoholism. Everyone of them has gotten upset, I don't tell them they can't be in AA, I don't control the membership, I tell people, I will not start a foundation of recovery on a lie. To this day, I do not understand why anyone who didn't need the program of recovery would want to hang out in AA. Some people say I need the fellowship, I just need a place to share, It's always "I need". Well, I need to say that if this is the case it is selfish and self centered to the core.
Can you or could you control the amount you drink once you start to drink?
Do you believe that physical craving would occur if you took a drink today?
Could you take 2 drinks a day for 30 days? – No more, no less?…
Does your experience abundantly confirm that once you put alcohol into your system, something happens in the bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually impossible for you to stop?
Did you ever drink when you didn’t want to? – Even after swearing drinking off forever?
Do you believe that Personal Knowledge is of no use with respect to your drinking?
Do you believe that you will be unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge?
Do you believe you have lost the power of choice in drink?
Do you believe that you have only two choices today?
A.)To live spiritually or B.) To die an alcoholic death?
Do you believe you have a spiritual malady which creates unmanageability in your life?
Do you believe that lack of power is your dilemma?
Do you believe that a time may come where you will have no effective mental defense against the first drink?
Do you believe your defense must come from a Higher Power?
Do you believe that you have to find a power greater than yourself which will solve Your problem?
It is true, Only the individual can decide they are alcoholic. However these questions will help anyone who is honestly looking for their truth. My experience confirms I am alcoholic, as does the cumulative experience of every individual I have sponsored through the work. I have had to tell a few people they do not fit the description of alcoholism. Everyone of them has gotten upset, I don't tell them they can't be in AA, I don't control the membership, I tell people, I will not start a foundation of recovery on a lie. To this day, I do not understand why anyone who didn't need the program of recovery would want to hang out in AA. Some people say I need the fellowship, I just need a place to share, It's always "I need". Well, I need to say that if this is the case it is selfish and self centered to the core.
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