SoulSister

Well, people in meetings, in home groups and sponsors point you to God.

God provided a place for us to be together and it is in meetings, in home groups and through sponsors that we hear the truth and are pointed to God. God works through people to help us.

When any two are gathered in His name, There He is.

Of course we must not drink. We seek out those that have found the way out. They show us what they did.

In meetings, in home groups, one on one, over the telephone...don't drink, go to meetings, get a home group, get a sponsor...all sounds pretty helpful to me.

Gottalife

I might add that it is only through sponsoring and working with others that we come to KNOW God.

Joe Nerv

This is the type of sentiment that I feel really hurts AA. It's not true. It might actually keep someone sober. Someone might also walk into an AA meeting, decide it's not for them, and still remain sober. There are no requirements for AA (except for a desire to stop drinking), and there are no requirements for sobriety. Lots of people get sober, every day, lots of different ways.

In regard to the OP, that's 1 message people hear at meetings. That's a message that works for some. I know lots of oldtimers who put the plug in the jug and went to meetings. And died, sober.

The flip side of plug in the jug meeting makers make it people are the big book thumpers. It all balances out in the end .

I know for myself that the 12 steps are an absolute 100% solution to the disease of alcoholism. I know because it's worked 100% for me for decades now. If people choose to do what I and countless others have done to get sober, awesome. If they choose some other way, that's awesome too. I'm there to help others achieve sobriety. Best way I can do that is by sharing my experience, strength, and hope. Not someone else's. Not a book's. If they have something that works better for them I can support that too.

Dee74

Just a note that the original post on this thread is 7 years old, gang.

D

muvinon

I get your complaint.

I think people try to think up actions that are simple for folks to do. Go to a meeting is simply easier to grasp than "Clean house..." which then has to be explained and then the whole topic of working the steps WITH sponsor comes up.

People are attempting to keep it simple, but it's a bit of a lazy message.

I do personally think that AA waits for people to walk into meetings these days rather than actively seeking out people to help as in the past.

muvinon

lol.......Nevermind*

biminiblue

It's still a really great thread. Classic question/answer with another of those AA "How does it really work?" debates.

Being new to AA, there are many things I question. I have to keep reminding myself that the people in AA are still people. They are all struggling with life, just like I do. What works for one, may or may not work for another.

Honestly, I don't agree with the "Here is what you have to do to stay sober" mantra of some people in the program of AA. I'm beginning to understand that isn't the message I am meant to listen to. No one knows me like me. No one has the right to judge or tell me how to do it. It isn't obstinacy, it isn't rebellion, it isn't arrogance on my part. It is the fact that there is a lot inside each of us. There are thousands of experiences that make up every personality. No one can know me like my Maker. Only my Creator can show me the path to healing - and if I honestly seek it, I will find it. There is one path each of us walks. It is our path, no one else walks it for us. No one heals us but God. No therapist, no sponsor, no friend, no doctor, no pill can do it for us. God. The only way.

With that said, I do see the value in the steps. The 12 Steps guide us to God: to honesty, to love, to tolerance, to acceptance of ourselves and others. I see that in order to be able to sponsor, one needs to have a working knowledge of the steps and the process, and I think sponsoring is a calling that not enough people heed. That is the thing that keeps me interested in doing the steps. Being of service in the future. Otherwise why continue to go to meetings after the first year or so?

It's a complex program for complex people.

dox

Lest we forget.
.

Boleo

I don't doubt that just going to meetings is enough for some people. However, is it a reliable way to stay sober?

For me - Recovery is a 24x7 endeavor. I want I want it to be reliable.
For me - Recovery is a life-long process. I want it to be comfortable.
For me - Recovery is a life or death matter. I want I want it to be safe.

I would not waste my time or money investing in a unreliable, uncomfortable or unsafe automobile. Why would I waste my time and energy with unreliable, uncomfortable or unsafe recovery. There is far more riding on it than what I need from a car.

The Spiritual Awakening described it the 12th step is;

The most reliable way to stay sober
The most comfortable way to stay sober
The safest way to stay sober

Confuzd

I do not think I could stay sober with meetings only, I need the steps and my Higher Power. But without going to meetings how are you supposed to learn what the steps are, or find a sponsor, or help other alcoholics. Without getting a home group, how does one effectively share the message of AA with others and welcome others into the fellowship. I guess technically these things are possible without regular meeting attendance. I'm sure the early AA's did not have meetings as readily available as many of us do now. But I think meetings, home group, and sponsorship help many.

NYCDoglvr

It's simple, excellent advice for newcomers, who are frequently overwhelmed in early sobriety. Just ignore it if it bugs you, I had to do that with the slogans in the beginning (they irritated the hell out of me, now I love them).

Lily

I prefer to hear Trust God, Clean House, and help others.

EgbertSouse

no actually if you are real alcoholic will power is of little or no use in recovery. that's why Surrender is an essential step in recovery. The big book covers this in over 1/3 of the first 164 pages. addiction is a disease for a reason.

Bunny211

I dunno, I think there is something to be said for keeping it simple in the beginning. I finished my 5th step and began my amends at 9 months sober. I had NO CLUE what I was doing. My eyeballs were not even pointed in the same direction. I was told "DO THIS NOW OR DIE" and so I did it. I did not have any sort of spiritual experience from it...I think I was too new in sobriety to grasp onto anything. I was completely numb. I read my 5th step in a trance. Never cried. Wasn't angry. None of that. I felt NOTHING. ZIP. ZILCH. Now, at 2.5 years in I have all these resentments from childhood that NEVER came up before. Why? I think I was too newly sober to begin the work. I really feel that keeping it simple early on would have been a better path for me. I am now writing again and hoping to have that spiritual experience and finding inner peace that everyone talks about.

awuh1

Yes bunny. While the steps are the same, the experience of them is different for everyone DEPENDING ON PAST EXPERIENCE! And the spiritual experiences that result are different.

Just my opinion, but I also believe that to a very large extent, what you get is what you seek (though rarely what you expect). Those on the path are spiritual seekers. May you find what you seek,

and more.

Pathwaytofree

Bunny,

I think your experience was different because your sponsor had your head spinning too much for you to have a spiritual awakening. You were on autopilot following her demands, and it was impossible to allow the process to happen naturally. I can't wait for you to have a true spiritual experience this time around with your new sponsor.

Best,
PTF

DayTrader

I recall thinking the same type of thing at around the same 2 and a half year time. I looked back at my experience from the first time through the steps and concluded I got nothing from it. hah..... I'll tell you this, I look back at that conclusion I had around 2 years now (with just over 10 years) and see that I had no idea what I was even looking at back then to be able to venture a decision like I did at the time.

What am I supposed to GET from the steps? What am I supposed to FEEL from the steps? They seem like valid questions for sure. What about that decision we made in the 3rd step though.....that one where we've come to the conclusion that deciding how things should be, what should happen, how we should feel and what others should do was a completely ineffective way of playing God and that we were now deciding to turn our will (or choices.....or determinations of what should/shouldn't be, if you will) over to God?

If I've made that decision then it's not up to me what I'm supposed to get or feel from doing the work - that's God's call. My job is to grow spiritually, which interestingly enough comes more from the removal of stuff (how I play God) than it does form acquiring things (like knowledge).

Here are some considerations I spent some time with and came out with some pretty neat new truths -

Is it possible I did EXACTLY what God wanted me to do in those first couple years?
Is it possible that I got precisely what I was supposed to out of those first couple years?
Is it possible that what I THINK I should have gotten bears no resemblance to what God knows I truly need?

I can't count the number of ppl I've heard at meetings who've talked at greaaaaat length about all the amaaaaazing things they got out of doing their 4th step and/or 5th step.........only to watch those same ppl rest on their laurels because they were sure that wonderful experience would be enough to get and/or keep them recovered and eventually go drink again.

IMO, it's my job to do the work necessary to grow spiritually. It's God's job to determine what I receive from that experience. Isn't it funny that even in my quest to deepen my relationship with God, I think I know better than God how it should progress, what it should look like and how it should feel?

Gottalife

I had quite an amazing experience with step five, just as the book described. Far from making me want to rest on my laurels, it inspired me to continue with the program, onto step nine in a few days. Why? because in my experience at the time, the fifth step promises turned out to be true, a discovery I could make only by taking the step, omitting nothing.

I didn't get the great effect some get with step three, though I did get much more of an effect than I was aware of at the time. It is probably truer to say I didn't notice.

But I have seen people fall flat after step five in particular. In nearly every case the problem can be sheeted home to a poor choice in who would hear it, mostly sponsors. Another observation is medication, taken for the wrong reasons, seems to be a block to a spiritual experience. I would also include other mind altering substances in that.

Ken33xx

Yeah, I heard the same thing from a couple of members in early sobriety who struck me as angry/argumentative. AA is supposed to be a program of attraction and whatever they had I didn't want.
Also when I got sober it was recommended by others with time you do the 12-steps within your first year. There really wasn't any set rule.

As far as having a spiritual awaking is concerned. I had what I consider a spiritual experience while walking home from after my first meeting. I felt a calmness and realization I didn't have to drink anymore. Which isn't to say I was sure I wouldn't drink but this is what I felt and I haven't picked up since.

I've gone to a lot of meetings in a lot of different places over the past 24 years and while there is one solution the experience can vary. For example I've never felt "rocketed into another dimension" but that's o.k. I think it's best that I keep my feet on the ground.

SoberCAH

I personally do the part which makes you cringe as well as your suggestions regarding developing a relationship with God.

They're both smart approaches to take to sobriety and a fulfilling life, but they aren't mutually exclusive.