Facing Demons
toosweet
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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Facing Demons
[FONT=Arial Black][COLOR=Indigo]Thought I'd start a new thread to continue the saga of my mysterious break up with ACOA bf. If you followed the thread called Hurting and Trying.....you know that I was dumped very suddenly and in a very cowardly way by my boyfriend in the middle of a very close and loving relationship. After a week and a half of no communication, he finally began talking. He wanted me back and last Saturday I went to his house and we spent a good deal of the weekend talking.
He basically had freaked out as he puts it, terrified at being in love again, guilty over the inclusion of a child in his life when he lost his own daughters years ago, depressed over being laid off for the winter and being out in the country stuck in the snow, money stress, etc. He is used to running away from problems, as in his past. He used drinking, moving from place to place, etc. He said that he felt trapped this time because he is out of places to run. He has "demons to face" as he put it, mainly those he hasn't fully confronted in terms of his childhood with his alcoholic father. He refers to his behavior also as that of a "dry drunk." (having been sober for 10 years himself) He said that he came to the realization that he can no longer run, and that "wherever you go, there you'll be." In other words, he knows that his running has not helped him to escape pain and difficulties in his life, the "demons" he needs to face.
He said that he wants to face these things rather than running.
In relation to me, he says that he loves me and wants to stay with me. I told him that he had hurt me very badly, scared me and that I deserved much better treatment than that. He said that he had been trying to get it together and figure out a way to tell me he was starting to panic and needed some space and didn't manage to do so until he was already freaked out. I sort of understand, but made it clear that it was not at all acceptable to treat me that way and that I would gladly give him time and space when he asked for it, but that hurting me was not okay.
He agreed and has apologized more than I need him to at this point. He seems committed to me and this relationship and I am proceeding with caution.
Anyone else able to relate to these things.....those running away behaviors, etc.? I think it is more a guy thing, retreating into the cave. I know that I have used my own methods which have served to distance people from me when I really didn't think I wanted to, but subconsciously I have sabotaged relationships in the past.
So you know, I am fighting every codependent urge I have to take care of him and letting him face his own issues without interfering or trying to fix anything.
I love him and I believe that he loves me and want to make this work, just am cautious now.
Little tiny bunny paws
Offer this egg to you.........
He basically had freaked out as he puts it, terrified at being in love again, guilty over the inclusion of a child in his life when he lost his own daughters years ago, depressed over being laid off for the winter and being out in the country stuck in the snow, money stress, etc. He is used to running away from problems, as in his past. He used drinking, moving from place to place, etc. He said that he felt trapped this time because he is out of places to run. He has "demons to face" as he put it, mainly those he hasn't fully confronted in terms of his childhood with his alcoholic father. He refers to his behavior also as that of a "dry drunk." (having been sober for 10 years himself) He said that he came to the realization that he can no longer run, and that "wherever you go, there you'll be." In other words, he knows that his running has not helped him to escape pain and difficulties in his life, the "demons" he needs to face.
He said that he wants to face these things rather than running.
In relation to me, he says that he loves me and wants to stay with me. I told him that he had hurt me very badly, scared me and that I deserved much better treatment than that. He said that he had been trying to get it together and figure out a way to tell me he was starting to panic and needed some space and didn't manage to do so until he was already freaked out. I sort of understand, but made it clear that it was not at all acceptable to treat me that way and that I would gladly give him time and space when he asked for it, but that hurting me was not okay.
He agreed and has apologized more than I need him to at this point. He seems committed to me and this relationship and I am proceeding with caution.
Anyone else able to relate to these things.....those running away behaviors, etc.? I think it is more a guy thing, retreating into the cave. I know that I have used my own methods which have served to distance people from me when I really didn't think I wanted to, but subconsciously I have sabotaged relationships in the past.
So you know, I am fighting every codependent urge I have to take care of him and letting him face his own issues without interfering or trying to fix anything.
I love him and I believe that he loves me and want to make this work, just am cautious now.
Little tiny bunny paws
Offer this egg to you.........
Last edited by Cynay; 03-29-2006 at 02:50 PM.
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Hi TS,
My partner has talked with me about his tendency in the past to run in times of emotional crisis, or what he was experiencing as emotional crisis. At those times, he feels trapped by whatever is creating the emotional upheaval, and distancing himself from it feels like the only solution to remain in control and manage his emotions.
I think all of us have experienced this at some point when things feel 'too much' and we want to run, hide, avoid. I know I have. But my abandonment issues are such that I'll always return and have in the past acted out of a desperate need for resolution.
Re my partner, he has worked on so much of his underlying stuff and healing childhood wounds and trauma, that this doesn't happen in the same way with the same intensity any more. Alongside this healing is a far greater sense of safety in the world and in our relationship.
About 3 weeks ago we had a conflict that triggered this response in him. He felt trapped, and all the old messages were going on, and he felt like he wanted to run. He took some time alone, and after about a half hour, the feelings subsided. As he explained it to me, he was able to observe what was going on in him, and at the same time, tell himself that is not a crisis, not at all the same as other times he felt in danger and know I or the relationship was not the cause of what he was feeling.
At the same time, I recognized that I've come a long way too. In the past, observing him in this state would have triggered my abandonment issues big time. And although small flares were going up, I too, had the wherewithall to not see this as a panic situation and trust this was temporary, and I stayed quite calm.
In all, the whole thing lasted an incredibly brief time and we were able to reconnect quickly. But it's taken a lot of work both independently and together to see the underlying emotional issues at play and heal from them.
Being cautious right now is a good thing. It also sounds like a great thing your bf is recognizing he has a lot of emotional pain ("demons") to face. What happens from here will depend on the choices he makes on how to do that.
Glad things have settled a bit,
gf
My partner has talked with me about his tendency in the past to run in times of emotional crisis, or what he was experiencing as emotional crisis. At those times, he feels trapped by whatever is creating the emotional upheaval, and distancing himself from it feels like the only solution to remain in control and manage his emotions.
I think all of us have experienced this at some point when things feel 'too much' and we want to run, hide, avoid. I know I have. But my abandonment issues are such that I'll always return and have in the past acted out of a desperate need for resolution.
Re my partner, he has worked on so much of his underlying stuff and healing childhood wounds and trauma, that this doesn't happen in the same way with the same intensity any more. Alongside this healing is a far greater sense of safety in the world and in our relationship.
About 3 weeks ago we had a conflict that triggered this response in him. He felt trapped, and all the old messages were going on, and he felt like he wanted to run. He took some time alone, and after about a half hour, the feelings subsided. As he explained it to me, he was able to observe what was going on in him, and at the same time, tell himself that is not a crisis, not at all the same as other times he felt in danger and know I or the relationship was not the cause of what he was feeling.
At the same time, I recognized that I've come a long way too. In the past, observing him in this state would have triggered my abandonment issues big time. And although small flares were going up, I too, had the wherewithall to not see this as a panic situation and trust this was temporary, and I stayed quite calm.
In all, the whole thing lasted an incredibly brief time and we were able to reconnect quickly. But it's taken a lot of work both independently and together to see the underlying emotional issues at play and heal from them.
Being cautious right now is a good thing. It also sounds like a great thing your bf is recognizing he has a lot of emotional pain ("demons") to face. What happens from here will depend on the choices he makes on how to do that.
Glad things have settled a bit,
gf
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: chapel hill, nc
Posts: 70
Too sweet -
Thank you for your post. No words to say how much I can understand his behavior because this was me too.
As a ACOA, one of the main things we deal with, is that we never learned to feel our emotions. Just think about it? When you are a child in an alcoholic home, where maybe the alcoholic is strong, dominating, controlling, etc..., you cannot express your feelings out of fear! If you do, there will be consequences to pay. Big ones!
So you learn to hold everything in, to repress, to not talk or share. THAT is how you leearn to deal with it.
Your BF is really a very good person, a very good human being on the inside, he just learned a behavior that is not healthy nor works for him anymore. This effects not only him, but EVERY realtionship that he comes into contact with. I speak from experience.
The Alanon slogan is: Awareness, Acceptance, Action!
Simply by being aware and accepting this, he has taken a major step. Now comes the action. I personally believe that action could come in the form of Alanon, CoDa, and therapy. I have been working these for three and a half months and I see tremendous changes in myself. Is it easy, heck no. In fact it is quite painful. But what's the choice? If he doesn't he will only continue the same behavior forever.
I lost someone because of my actions. There is still a chance we can be friends, but the trust may be gone forever.
It is NOT on purpose he does this, nor is it your fault or responsibility in any way. He must do it for himself. But it does make a big difference to know there is someone who loves you and is waiting there for you hen you recover. It does make a big difference to know that someone is there to support you, and say it's okay, you doing great! Two steps forward, one step backwards they say.
Do you reallly love him? If so, stick with him. Let him know you can't do it for him, but when he can work the program, show you he is trying and making positive changes, you can welcome him back fully with love and compassion. I KNOW it will make a major difference in his recovery!
Ken
Thank you for your post. No words to say how much I can understand his behavior because this was me too.
As a ACOA, one of the main things we deal with, is that we never learned to feel our emotions. Just think about it? When you are a child in an alcoholic home, where maybe the alcoholic is strong, dominating, controlling, etc..., you cannot express your feelings out of fear! If you do, there will be consequences to pay. Big ones!
So you learn to hold everything in, to repress, to not talk or share. THAT is how you leearn to deal with it.
Your BF is really a very good person, a very good human being on the inside, he just learned a behavior that is not healthy nor works for him anymore. This effects not only him, but EVERY realtionship that he comes into contact with. I speak from experience.
The Alanon slogan is: Awareness, Acceptance, Action!
Simply by being aware and accepting this, he has taken a major step. Now comes the action. I personally believe that action could come in the form of Alanon, CoDa, and therapy. I have been working these for three and a half months and I see tremendous changes in myself. Is it easy, heck no. In fact it is quite painful. But what's the choice? If he doesn't he will only continue the same behavior forever.
I lost someone because of my actions. There is still a chance we can be friends, but the trust may be gone forever.
It is NOT on purpose he does this, nor is it your fault or responsibility in any way. He must do it for himself. But it does make a big difference to know there is someone who loves you and is waiting there for you hen you recover. It does make a big difference to know that someone is there to support you, and say it's okay, you doing great! Two steps forward, one step backwards they say.
Do you reallly love him? If so, stick with him. Let him know you can't do it for him, but when he can work the program, show you he is trying and making positive changes, you can welcome him back fully with love and compassion. I KNOW it will make a major difference in his recovery!
Ken
toosweet
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: This side of heaven
Posts: 10
GF and Ken, thank you for your replies. So glad you each can relate. This is really tough for me. Like GF, I have my own abandonment issues and loving someone who has a tendency to "run" at times, even only emotionally for a time, is so scary. I am facing this tonight. Any time I don't hear from him now for the course of a day or after an intense talk, as we had on the phone last night, in which we didn't agree on certain issues, makes me wonder. I know the best thing for me is to sit tight, do my own thing until he does contact me. I have learned not to follow someone into the cave when they go in. I don't know that he has gone in, just trying to apply some things I'm trying to learn.
Ken, I am so sorry that you may have lost someone you love in the process of sorting through all the issues we all must face. I understand. I lost someone due to my own issues a few years ago and it hurts. We learn from these painful experiences, but sometimes at such a cost. If there is some hope of things working out for your relationship, I hope that they do.
What my bf and what you, Ken, do in running away, is not really that different from the things I do when feeling certain emotions which often take the form of flashbacks. I run from the old feelings and flashbacks in the same way that my bf runs. I run to certain things, like clinging to someone in the present, or using some eating disorder behaviors, etc., to escape. I do have fantasies of running in the physical sense, like just going to a bus station and getting on with no particular destination, or even just driving for hours to go anywhere. I have run away to the coast when I could, and other places. So, I do understand. It's just that in my case, I don't run from those I love. It is a little difficult to understand why someone would. Difficult for me, I mean, as it is the opposite of what I feel like doing when I'm hurting or scared or sad or whatever.
It is good for me to hear from others who do understand this way of coping. I feel completely unloved and unwanted when someone I love distances themselves from me in this way and I am trying to learn, as GF said, not to panic and not to see it as permanent every time.
I sure am scared right now. I really hope that we can work through all of these things. I don't want to feel scared and insecure and doubt his love for me. I know he is worth working through these things with. Only time will tell, and his willingness to work out his own issues as I work out mine.
So, Ken, yes, I would love to stand by him, as I do love him. I just have to get to a point where I can believe him when he tells me how much he loves me when I feel abandoned some of the time. Is this perhaps close to what your significant other was feeling?
Ken, I am so sorry that you may have lost someone you love in the process of sorting through all the issues we all must face. I understand. I lost someone due to my own issues a few years ago and it hurts. We learn from these painful experiences, but sometimes at such a cost. If there is some hope of things working out for your relationship, I hope that they do.
What my bf and what you, Ken, do in running away, is not really that different from the things I do when feeling certain emotions which often take the form of flashbacks. I run from the old feelings and flashbacks in the same way that my bf runs. I run to certain things, like clinging to someone in the present, or using some eating disorder behaviors, etc., to escape. I do have fantasies of running in the physical sense, like just going to a bus station and getting on with no particular destination, or even just driving for hours to go anywhere. I have run away to the coast when I could, and other places. So, I do understand. It's just that in my case, I don't run from those I love. It is a little difficult to understand why someone would. Difficult for me, I mean, as it is the opposite of what I feel like doing when I'm hurting or scared or sad or whatever.
It is good for me to hear from others who do understand this way of coping. I feel completely unloved and unwanted when someone I love distances themselves from me in this way and I am trying to learn, as GF said, not to panic and not to see it as permanent every time.
I sure am scared right now. I really hope that we can work through all of these things. I don't want to feel scared and insecure and doubt his love for me. I know he is worth working through these things with. Only time will tell, and his willingness to work out his own issues as I work out mine.
So, Ken, yes, I would love to stand by him, as I do love him. I just have to get to a point where I can believe him when he tells me how much he loves me when I feel abandoned some of the time. Is this perhaps close to what your significant other was feeling?
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TS -
Yes, I do believe so. I do believe this is what she felt. And god bless her for feeling this way and saying goodbye at that point in time, or I just would have continued a wrong way of behaving.
You and your BF are really no different than me and my friend. We both have had deep personal issues that effect our inner selves, as well as how we relate to others.
To me, the best relationship is when two people can love each other, work for and want the best for each other, find ways to support and help each other, yet still remain whole withing themselves alone. The needs is gone, the preference remains.
Maybe the best thing for you is a time-out. Time for both of you to take space apart and just work on yourselves until you both reach a point of wholeness and peace within. You BF has said to you he has many demons inside he needs to work out. And I believe you do as well. Abandonment, lonliness, clinging, eating disorder type of behavior, etc..
Until you both become whole, there will always be these continued issues.
Sometimes taking a little time and space apart is really the best thing to do. But I know, it scares you to think what if it then doesn't work out between us? what if he leaves? what if I am all alone and feel that abndonment? These are all so natural and common questions.
The answer probably is yes! you will feel some of that. But that is what is supposed to happen. It IS the right way and the best way. You can learn to stay, learn to grow, learn to become whole again. I can promise you that if your intent is sincere, it DOES work! I can tell you this from my personal experience.
Some great authors: Pema Chodron, Melanie Beatty, Ken Keyes Jr,...
You maybe in a co-dependent relationship. If so, melanie Beatty's books are the best. Ken Keyes has one called "A conscious guide to loving". Pema comes from a buddhist perspective and is very western in her approach. They are all great.
Keep the focus on yourself TS. This is not selfish, it is self-caring. When you really love yourself whole, you can truly learn to love others, and find a real deep sense of peace. And when true love is the focus, things will work out exactly as they are meant to be. Promise!
Ken
Yes, I do believe so. I do believe this is what she felt. And god bless her for feeling this way and saying goodbye at that point in time, or I just would have continued a wrong way of behaving.
You and your BF are really no different than me and my friend. We both have had deep personal issues that effect our inner selves, as well as how we relate to others.
To me, the best relationship is when two people can love each other, work for and want the best for each other, find ways to support and help each other, yet still remain whole withing themselves alone. The needs is gone, the preference remains.
Maybe the best thing for you is a time-out. Time for both of you to take space apart and just work on yourselves until you both reach a point of wholeness and peace within. You BF has said to you he has many demons inside he needs to work out. And I believe you do as well. Abandonment, lonliness, clinging, eating disorder type of behavior, etc..
Until you both become whole, there will always be these continued issues.
Sometimes taking a little time and space apart is really the best thing to do. But I know, it scares you to think what if it then doesn't work out between us? what if he leaves? what if I am all alone and feel that abndonment? These are all so natural and common questions.
The answer probably is yes! you will feel some of that. But that is what is supposed to happen. It IS the right way and the best way. You can learn to stay, learn to grow, learn to become whole again. I can promise you that if your intent is sincere, it DOES work! I can tell you this from my personal experience.
Some great authors: Pema Chodron, Melanie Beatty, Ken Keyes Jr,...
You maybe in a co-dependent relationship. If so, melanie Beatty's books are the best. Ken Keyes has one called "A conscious guide to loving". Pema comes from a buddhist perspective and is very western in her approach. They are all great.
Keep the focus on yourself TS. This is not selfish, it is self-caring. When you really love yourself whole, you can truly learn to love others, and find a real deep sense of peace. And when true love is the focus, things will work out exactly as they are meant to be. Promise!
Ken
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
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Originally Posted by toosweet
I feel completely unloved and unwanted when someone I love distances themselves from me in this way and I am trying to learn, as GF said, not to panic and not to see it as permanent every time.
I sure am scared right now. I really hope that we can work through all of these things. I don't want to feel scared and insecure and doubt his love for me.
I sure am scared right now. I really hope that we can work through all of these things. I don't want to feel scared and insecure and doubt his love for me.
I began to see this as a result of not having successful 'attachment' as a child to those who I loved. I wanted so much to be connected and attached to my father and mother, to matter, to be loved, and this attachment process was entirely disrupted. And I came to have compassion for myself that considering this, when I feel attachment is interrupted as an adult, I feel so very threatened -- the core of my abandonment issues.
I then started to see that I didn't have to be attached to my parents to be whole, but that I could be attached to the universe. This is mixed in with my spirtual beliefs. And I developed a kind of mantra for myself, one which I use in my meditation to this day. "I am attached to the universe. I am whole. I am connected." And when I feel that attachment threatened now, I call up that same mantra, and get a sense of myself in the world, in the universe, and that, even though this particular attachment is not all that I want it to be right now, I have not lost my greater attachment, my sense of wholeness, and groundedness.
I don't know if I've explained this in a way that makes sense -- I haven't really tried to explain this before.
best,
gf
toosweet
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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TS and Ken, thank you for your last responses. I am struggling too to find a way to feel "attached" without needing another person to supply that for me. I was realizing that while I was with my bf this weekend. (even though he was very loving and attentive and "attached" this weekend) The funny thing is, I am actually a very independent person. Growing up in a household in which I was left to fend for myself most of the time has made me quite self reliant. Being codependent, of course, my pattern has always been to take care of everyone else while I feel depleted most of the time. Yes, I struggle still with being "other directed." Also, though, I have noticed that if I can stop and do reality checks with myself from time to time it helps. I had a terrible morning, felt terrible due to some really bad feelings coming up in regard to my mother and our current situation and a fight I had with my bipolar son. (I have a teenager, not the six year old I have mentioned before) When I got to work, with dear friends whom I know care about me and respect me, I felt very disconnected, unloved, outcast, etc. I had to step back several times and really make myself look again at these people in my life and see that they were not rejecting me. I was looking to feel rejected. It is a familiar, expected feeling and I came to realize that I feel rejected so often when it just isn't really happening. I have had to stop and think about that before, but I am trying to be able to do that more often in the midst of these little crises I have in all relationships. My own feelings of being unlovable and alone hurt me far more than other people do, at least now that I am an adult. I have to stop looking at those whom I love in the present as representation of those who hurt me in the past. I have to realize that the times my bf prefers to sit in the easy chair rather than sitting next to me on the couch is because he likes to recline in the chair and maybe needs a little space and not because he is not attracted to me or doesn't love me. Little things like that may make me sound crazy, but they are little internal dramas I have putting myself through my whole life.
Phew! I needed to get some of that out. I am trying really to not only feel more connected without needing others to supply that sense of connection, but also to stay in the realm of reality and the present rather than feeling the dysfunction of the past in which I lived my entire childhood.
Am I making any sense at all? You know, I look very normal on the outside.
Phew! I needed to get some of that out. I am trying really to not only feel more connected without needing others to supply that sense of connection, but also to stay in the realm of reality and the present rather than feeling the dysfunction of the past in which I lived my entire childhood.
Am I making any sense at all? You know, I look very normal on the outside.
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Posts: 70
TS -
Yes you are a very normal person. A very special and wonderful person. Who you are is not of any question now, or ever was. It is the behavior, NOT YOU!
This took me twenty-eight years to recognize unfortunately, but now I have a second chance. You sound just like me in that I knew intellectually what I was doing, how I was acting, but left to my own devices, I could not stop. It is that addictive way of behaving, because we learn to act and cope in certain ways as children, which are no longer working for us.
At this point in your life, it is the behavior that MUST be changed if you want to have any hope of a peaceful, compassionate and loving life.
I and others can tell you all the reasons, understand to the max (which we do), but it will never be enough. As I mentioned, the slogan is awareness, acceptance, action. To some degree, you are certainly aware and accept. But now is the time for action. There is no other way. I don't wish this to sound too harsh, but there is no other way. This comes from compassion as one who has lived it, does live it, and is recovering.
The webiste is www.coda.org - This will help you to give you your life back. It will give you a path to follow. It will give you hope. But YOU must do it, no one else can.
I urge you to take advantage.
Be well,
Ken
Yes you are a very normal person. A very special and wonderful person. Who you are is not of any question now, or ever was. It is the behavior, NOT YOU!
This took me twenty-eight years to recognize unfortunately, but now I have a second chance. You sound just like me in that I knew intellectually what I was doing, how I was acting, but left to my own devices, I could not stop. It is that addictive way of behaving, because we learn to act and cope in certain ways as children, which are no longer working for us.
At this point in your life, it is the behavior that MUST be changed if you want to have any hope of a peaceful, compassionate and loving life.
I and others can tell you all the reasons, understand to the max (which we do), but it will never be enough. As I mentioned, the slogan is awareness, acceptance, action. To some degree, you are certainly aware and accept. But now is the time for action. There is no other way. I don't wish this to sound too harsh, but there is no other way. This comes from compassion as one who has lived it, does live it, and is recovering.
The webiste is www.coda.org - This will help you to give you your life back. It will give you a path to follow. It will give you hope. But YOU must do it, no one else can.
I urge you to take advantage.
Be well,
Ken
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(ooops I guess I was way off track where your bf was concerned ,sorry.)
Anyway, yes I can relate to the running away behaviour. Even though I never ran away without some kind of explanation or wild excuse.
It seemed a lot easier to do than facing my fears. Whatever his issues are is obviously going to continue to cause him problems unless dealt with and I admire your awareness that it is something he has to do on his own and in his own time.
Anyway, yes I can relate to the running away behaviour. Even though I never ran away without some kind of explanation or wild excuse.
It seemed a lot easier to do than facing my fears. Whatever his issues are is obviously going to continue to cause him problems unless dealt with and I admire your awareness that it is something he has to do on his own and in his own time.
toosweet
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: This side of heaven
Posts: 10
Thanks, Ken and Peter. It's okay that you may have been off base, Peter, about my bf's behavior. You were only going on the information you had in front of you. I wasn't much closer in understanding any of it myself until he and I talked at length and I had to relate his running away to my own means of escape. I tend to not run from the same kinds of things, but the avoidance of pain or that fear response is very common I think. I no longer have any doubt that he loves me and wants to keep building a relationship with me. I do know that we have some work ahead of us, and mostly the work is going to be within each of us. We each will have to face our "demons" and do some healing. We each have done some of that, but there is more to do. Ken, I am going to join an online Coda support group in addition to being here and another support group I recently joined. You are right that I have to work on being healthier myself. This is the first serious relationship I've had that I didn't feel like we were trying to heal each other. I know that he can't do that for me and I know that I certainly cannot do that for him. So, that's progress anyway.
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