kennethhoff

Ok, I am hoping for an honest answer.

1) I asked a person out to a play giving 2 weeks notice and she agreed.
2) Five days before the play I asked if she'd like to go to dinner. She agreed. We both said we'd meet at the restaurant.
3) On the day before the play, I was concerned there wasn't enough time between dinner and the play and asked to go a bit earlier. She said no because it conflicted with her daughters babysitting.
5) I replied that same day and I gave an alternative to go to another place that does not take as long. I did not here from her.
6) Now the next day arrives, the day of the play. It is now 5 hrs before the play and I still have not heard. So I emailed her, that since I haven't heard, I made other plans for dinner and the ticket for the play is still waiting at the box office if she still wants to go.
6) She emails me that she feels I am angry because I said that, and maybe it would be better if she should skip the play and we should get together another time.
7) Now I feel like she just isn't interested and say thank you but maybe it's not best that we should get together again.
8) She says she cancelled plans to go to the play, had many problems with babysitters and if were that concerned I could have called her.
9) At this point, I say I am sorry she had problems and such, but I belive I was fair throughout but she could (should) have called me because I had no ideas about her problems at all. I tell her a ticket is being held at the theatre if she can make it.
10) She does not show up. I go and enjoy the play.

My feeling is that I offered her the tickets two weeks in advance, I asked about dinner and she initially agreed. When shen said maybe dinner isn't a good idea. Well I say OK.
I offer other arrangements for dinner and she still says no.
I didn't here from her until five hours before the play, so I make other plans but still say if she still wants to go, there's a ticket.
Then she feels anger in my email and maybe we should just get together another time and I am thinking why, this sounds like a problem that may become a history.


I know I have issues of control as being an ACOA. But I wonder how far I should go to meet in the middle? Was I fair or controlling?

Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to answer

Ken

DesertEyes

Heya Ken,

Tough questions. I can't answer them cuz I don't know you that well and I don't know the lady at all. This is the kind of thing where a "support group" of real live people along with a sponsor are all about. It's really not about who said what to whom, it's about what you _feel_ on the inside and what your motivations are. That's stuff that's best handled with a "mini-4th step" and shared with a good friend in the program (aka: a sponsor)

Whadya think?

Mike :-)

kennethhoff

Mike,

Yes I do agree and I certainly will talk with my sponser. Still would like unbiased opinions as well. I understand these are only opinions and that is how I recieve it. Not an endorsement or condemnation.

Sometimes it is good to get others feedback regardless of right vs wrong. Just thoughts

Thanks!
Ken

DesertEyes

Heya Ken,

I can give you some general guidelines that _I_ follow in my life and that work well for me. See how they fit for you.

- I don't do "compromise" or "meeting in the middle". To me that means that somebody loses something for the other person to gain something. I prefer "cooperation" where _both_ people benefit and _nobody_ loses. If I feel I'm giving up something, or expecting the other person to give up something, then it's time for me to do a "mini 4th step" and figure out why I feel the need to give up, or the need to control another. Or both.

- What people say with words is not useful to me. Words are very good at describing objects and measurements, but they suck at describing feelings. I listen to people's actions. If people _act_ in a certain manner then that is what I base my decisions on. Regardless of what they say. In turn I have to watch _my_ behavior and ensure that it matches my own words.

As far as your specific questions. My impression from your description is that there is a mismatch between the ladies words and actions. How important is that mismatch to you is something that only you can decide. Whether _you_ were controlling in your behavior requires that you look at your own motives in that situation. Why was it necessary for _you_ to be concerned about how much time _she_ had between dinner and the play? Was it because you feel uncomfortable with a tight schedule? Was it because you did not feel she was being sufficiently organized with her planning? There could be lots of reasons, some benign and some controlling. Perhaps there's more than one reason.

When I make an appointment with somebody we agree on a date and a time and that's it. I show up as scheduled and if they don't show I have alternate plans. Repeated contacts to confirm the appointment don't work for me because they show that _I_ am uncomfortable with something in the plan. If I'm that uncomfortable it's time to hit the mini 4th step again.

Mike :-)

Peter

Sounds to me like the problem was originally a conflict of times.

You changed the dinner plans on her.Perhaps you should have been the one to call.

Her suggestion that maybe it would be better if you both meet some other time seems a valid one.However you know her better than I do and only you can say if you think the relationship wont work.

I am not sure from reading your post just what exactly was more important to you. The play or being with the person.

If the person was more important than the play then maybe you could have stuck to the old plans or maybe you would have called.

You mentioned "middle ground" but that is a hypothetical place that can be hard to achieve sometimes in relationships.It can make for a very lonely existence.I am talking from experience.

To answer your question. Yes I think you tried to be fair, but yes it also sounds like you may have been a little "controlling" by being too rigid in your rules.

kennethhoff

Thank you Mike. I always enjoy reading your comments and opnions. I enjoy perspectives. It gives me a chance to hear others where I may have erred or not.

So in thinking about your words, I am comfortable in what were my intentions. I do belive in the middle way. It is how I am taught as a Buddhist. Two sides working to meet in the middle for the benefit of both.

Was I uncomftable with a tight schedule. Yes. Then I ask myself why. My answer. Because I wanted both of us to have a nice relaxing time. When she could make the first one, I understood and offered an alternative. I do belive this is fair. When that didn't work, and it was told to me shortly before the play, I made other arrangements. This I think is fair.

What I have learned thru Alanon, is that I cannot change anyone or their opinions. I am responsible for mine. And so, though I disagree with her, I can detach now and wish her the best. I LOVE detachment. One of the best things I have learned in Alanon.

Peter -
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Who calls, who doesn't is always a tough one. I figure if she has a problem that I don't know about, or couldn't, it would be up to her to let me know. But that is my humble opinion. But thanks for the thoughts, I really do appreciate them.

Ken

GettingFree

Hi Ken,

Here are my 2 cents for what it's worth. Email is great for sharing information but it can be often misinterpreted or, worse, harmful when it comes to dealing with anything with emotional content behind it (smiling at the irony that all of the dialogue here is shared through 'email'.)

I don't know all the contents of your email outlined in step number 6, but if was as you wrote above, I can see that it could have been interpreted as abrupt or annoyed without anything else to explain your state (tone of voice, mannerisms, body language, etc.)

I do understand that your intent was to accept her non-response by that time as disinterest in dinner or perhaps as well the play and go about your plans. But she may have misinterpreted.

And also, you too may have misinterpreted her not replying earlier. There could be a number of reasons why she didn't reply earlier than 5 hours before, some of which may have to do with you, and some that may have nothing do with you.

Who knows what might have happened if you did give her a call to check out what was going on. I've learned the hard way -- when there's uncertainty about what's in an email, or not hearing back via email, etc etc, -- old-fashioned technology that provides for real-time two-way communication is more reliable and more productive.

best
gf

utopia

i could relate to the feelings in that post, i though of Keep it simple and How important is it. sometimes my past issues with abandonment and betrayal are inflamed when my social plans are cancelled or moved around because for me i can experience those things very personally as a rejection or lack of sincere interest in me, my time and the relationship im interested in building. still if i try to keep things simple i find things are more easily shrugged off and i dont feel so speared in the heart and sort of like "ohh! so i mean that much to you!!! i hate you.......why dont you love me!!!!" thats been in my past anyway. so even though i get annoyed when people change or cancel plans or fail to get in contact i also try to remember humans make mistakes like ""occasional"" carelessness and forgetfulness. part of the human condition and that to build intimacy in my relationships it calls for a little forgiveness and patience with others. For me i had to have patience and love for me first to shrug off situations like this every now and again. its hard for me to always give people the benefit of my doubts when my family used to always let me down hard but one day at a time...

TheGirlInside

Ken,

Here's what I found out via emailing....I agree with Mike and GF; that email is a dangerous vehicle for expressing emotions. Hurt can be seen as anger, concern for control, and on and on.

As a female, I've learned that men (in my opinion, from my experience) like to just get to the point, state what they need to state, and be done with it. From that approach, we ladies sometimes receive the message: the man is the man, and when he lays down the law, well, that's it! or, that the man doesn't really care, or that he's being very abrubt and coarse with us (we hate that).
Conversely, in my opinion, woman as a whole prefer to explain ourselves, giving reason for why we wrote what we wrote (which, I suppose men could see as women crybabying/griping about our problems, or trying to "pull" an emotion out of the man in question).

I've had similar sort of issues with a buddy in AA who, thankfully, has the maturity and wisdom to deal with me gently. He and I have had issues of misinterpretation, where he thinks I'm going off on "I hate men," (which I'm not), and I've thought he is saying, "I am the authority on all things AA," (which goes completely against his in-person demeanor).

When you told your lady friend that maybe you shouldn't get together at all, that seemed like an inner child talking for you (something I'm VERY familiar with....the old "I'll reject you befor you reject me. Ha! Take that!" oh wait, I'm the one who feels sad and alone. What the?).

If you really care about her, give her a phone call, or better yet, meet her in person, and explain yourself. Apologize, but only if you know what you're apologizing for (misinterpreting her schedule as a lack of interest, responding to her in hurt instead of in strength and with a caring attitude...you know, those kinds of things).
And then, say, "Next time, I'll..." and figure out a better way.

Best of Luck!

SaTiT

It's suttle, but it's the old mind talk.
The rejection (feeling) triggers old , thought, behaviors.

I'm not sure what role you played as a child growning up
in an alcoholic home. There's verious roles we played to survived.
I'm the lost child. Some try to keep the peace or do whatever
to make it okey. Most of us just get neglected or rejected
or abandent. if not pyhsically...mentally and emotionally.

I've been stooded up....a play too as a matter of fact.
Got tickets, and whole nine yards.
I ended up going to the play by myself. Her lost not mine.
I think it's part of the dating process. It happens.

It dosn't make you unloveable or worthless.
It just feels like it. It's okey to feel what you feel. Process it.
it's just a matter if maintaining a posistive attitude (new thought,behiviors).

I'm reading from a book , it pretty much gose into details in reguard
to your experince.