New here...just saying hi

Old 03-07-2006, 07:43 PM
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Unhappy New here...just saying hi

I was searching today for a message board relating to families of alcoholics and stumbled across this one, so I am hoping to find a place of support. I don't really have anywhere else to turn!

To make this as short as possible- My dad has been an alcoholic all my life (25 years). Much happened growing up, and after several years of therapy I was able to forgive him and we began to have a real relationship. He had been sober and in AA for 6 months at that time. After 16 months he began drinking again. As much as it hurt, I was able to distance myself and deal with it. He also would keep his distance, he knew I didn't agree with it or want that in my life anymore. When he would sober up or stop drinking for awhile, he would get back in touch with me and things would be good.

At the same time, I was living with a 72 year old woman who was like a mom to me. She became sick, and I took care of her for 3 years. She died 3 months ago from lung cancer. The pain of this has been almost inbearable, and it still hurts to just talk about it. I have been horribly depressed more than normal. (I have been on meds for Depression, Bipolar, PTSD for 5 years now)

My dad lost everything about 4 months ago because of his drinking. Not working or paying bills, he was evicited from his house, has almost no relationship with his 14 year old son. My brother, 23 allowed him to move in with him. After 3 months and his continued episodes of drinking/stopping drinking/drinking again, my brother kicked him out after a fistfight with him.

So dad calls me, the whole "this time I mean it" speech and asked to stay with me. After all I am now in a 3 bedroom house by myself and it is very lonely. I agree, with the exception that no alcohol was allowed in the house.

He has been very depressed as well, and has been for many many years. He is just now beginning to realize this, or I guess accepting it is a better word. He agreed to seek treatment for the depression, and return to AA. I have done everything I could think of to help support him- gave him gas money so he could work, stocked the house with food, let him talk when he needed to, gave him all kinds of info on depression and alcohol abuse, etc.

Yesterday I found out he was drinking. He had gone 3 weeks without it, or at least that is what he says. I knew something was up, after dealing with this for as long as I have, I had a gut feeling. I found the beer cans outside and confronted him. He admitted to it, that he started the day before and it carried over. He reasons that he drank outside, so technically the alcohol was never in the house.

I am a mess over this. My brothers and sisters won't have anything to do with him, his sisters won't either. He has burned so many bridges. I can't talk to my family, because all I hear is "I told you so" and they don't think I should have let him come here in the first place. I am so mad at myself for believing that this would be it, I should have known better. I don't want him to leave, it is just to hard to be alone right now. He has agreed to continue seeking help, he has his first appointment next Wednesday to begin treatment. (Substance abuse treatment at local psychatric facility, they will also have him see a doctor for his depression).

I have tried attending Alanon meetings in the past, I went to 2, however was not comfortable. I don't do well in group situations. I know that I only went to 2 sessions, however I have been in group therapy before and quit after 6 weeks because it just wasn't for me. I am considering returning to therapy, but then seem to talk myself out of it. I was in therapy for 2 1/2 years, so I don't see what else there is for someone to tell me. For now, I am just needing a place to "feel normal". I wanted to make this short, but it went longer then I planned, sorry about that.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:05 PM
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Hello ranae, and welcome to SR.

I'm sorry to hear that your Dad and his disease is causing you so much pain. I'm glad you

found us, this is definetly the place for people like us. If you check out the "Friends and

Family" forum you'll find a lot of information and suggestions on how to deal with the kind of problems you're talking about. You'll find a lot of us have the same feeling and emotional pain that you do, so you are definetly "normal" around here :-)

Welcome again.

Mike :-)
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:24 PM
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Welcome to SR ranae1221

I can understand why this is so frustrating for you. I know that you want to do the right thing for your father. But at what price your willing to pay? Look at the stress it has brought it you. Its hasn't made you feel better. You have too much on your plate... you need to deal with things one at a time. You just lost someone who you deeeply cared and loved. You need to heal. On hand its good your dad is starting a program to sober up, on the other hand its not your responsibility to make sure he's not drinking. You really need to stop letting him make excues because excues doesn't change anything. If he can't do it, then he can't do it. If he can.. hopefully this is the last time. Stop going aroung in circles.

I understant why your siblings and your father's sisters do not want anything to do with him because at some point you get so sick of it that the excuses and short term "bliss" aren't worth it. My dad tried stop drinking once and didn't last a month and now he is doing it again.. but its obvious he is still drinking. My dad has burned bridges too.. my siblings and I do not want anything whatsoever with him. I am already at the point that I could care less what happens to him. I think the reason why your mad at yourself is because deep down you know that this is too much. You know this isn't right, you don't have to deal with this. If you don't want to be alone, find something that can allow you to take your mind off of things for a little while. Something that you enjoy. If its being around people, spend your time with people that isn't your dad. You need to get him out of your house. Have a friend stay over or maybe get a pet. Pets are great companions. Considering the condition your dad is in... he is too unstable for you. Him being around you will and is making you worse. He is toxic for you.

You should give the alanon meetings a chance, shop around your bound to find one that makes you feel comfortable. And if it doesn't, that's okay too. If you prefer therapy, that's good too. Or maybe posting will help you. Posting and just reading other people's stories on this forum has helped me so such. Everyone has different way of dealing with these things. All i hope is that you find what your looking for and begin your progress of healing. My thoughts will be with you. Take care of yourself. Keep posting.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:41 AM
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Hi ranae.Welcome.

Your father will find every means necessary to rationalize his drinking (technically he did not drink in the house, please )

He is in your house, you set the rules now. It is either recovery and AA or you will have to make arrangements for him to live elsewhere.

I hope your situation changes soon
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:18 AM
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Thank you for all of your replies. I guess I am just not ready to give up on him, however I do agree that there will have to be changes. I have felt for several years that his drinking is a coping skill, unhealthy one, and that he has a major mental illness (likely Bipolar) that has been untreated all this time. He says he drinks to "numb" himself, and I know how that feels. I for many years find ways to "numb" my pain (although not with alcohol or drugs), and it was only after treatment and medication that I was able to find healthier and better ways of coping. That is what I want for him, although I realize I can not make him change. My hope is that once he begins treatment for his depression and/or whatever else he may have he will have a chance at staying sober. Maybe I am just a fool, I don't know.

I am going to insist that for him to stay here he must 1) Return to AA meetings 2) Attend his first appointment next week for treatment and continue attending. I plan on taking him so I know he went 3) I want him to write out a "safety plan", i.e. what he is to do when he feels the need to "numb" his pain, what are ways to cope with that instead of drinking 4) No alcohol on the property, including in the house and outside

I will also consider finding an Alanon meeting that I am more comfortable at, however it is difficult because I live in a smaller town, and there are only 5 meetings a week, and the times I can attend are limited due to my work schedule.

Thank you for listening to my "vent". I appreciate all of the advice.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:01 PM
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Hi Ranae! I actually don't have any alcoholics in my family, but I wandered over her from Nar-Anon b/c I like to read stories on all the boards. Some of the things you'll read are very inspiring and helpful, this is a great forum full of people who have the same experiences. My ex fiance became a drug addict after I got pregnant again, and I had (and still have) a very hard time dealing with everything. I do not feel comfortable going to NarAnon meetings, and don't have time, as I am now a single mom with two daughters. But, this site does help a lot. Don't force yourself into uncomfortable situations. Private therapy sounds like a better idea. You said that you're not sure what else they can say to you after going to therapy for years. But you have to remember, new problems arise every day, and you have medical problems (depression, bipolar) that make it much harder for you to deal with these problems. A therapist can help in your day to day living, especially now that your dad is with you, you'll need it. Whatever course you chose, I hope that you continue to post. You'll feel an instant connection and people here really do care about you. We've all been there in one way or another. You'll learn quickly that none of us can change the people that we love. Until he's willing to do everything to get sober, he won't do it. He has to want it for himself. Good luck, you seem like a nice person and a good daughter.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ranae1221
I am going to insist that for him to stay here he must 1) Return to AA meetings 2) Attend his first appointment next week for treatment and continue attending. I plan on taking him so I know he went 3) I want him to write out a "safety plan", i.e. what he is to do when he feels the need to "numb" his pain, what are ways to cope with that instead of drinking 4) No alcohol on the property, including in the house and outside
Sounds like a lot of policing and caretaking is going to fall on your shoulders in order to have your father follow through with a recovery program. This is a lot of responsibility and can be pretty stressful -- keeping tabs on someone, following up, being on high alert for transgressions isn't a lot of fun, to be sure. In essence, you've taken on a parenting role to your parent which is natural as parents enter old age or become ill, but with an addict, it's quite different. I'm especially touched by it as you're only 25, a time when ideally you should be focused on expanding your own life and dreaming your own dreams and looking at how to go about fulfilling them.

That said, as you go down this road, it might help to be clear at the outset with both yourself and with him about what happens if he doesn't follow through. You've made a good start by articulating your expectations. What about your limits?

What happens if he has alcohol on the property or anywhere else for that matter? What are the immediate consequences and next steps? What happens if he resists attending an appointment or misses one? And how far are you willing to go to faciliate his attending treatment? Are you willing to attend with him as a support if he's willing and compliant? Are you willing to continue to support him in attending treatment if it requries coercion and threats? What role(s) are you willing to take on?

These may be difficult questions, but asking some of them now may help you have a sense of better control over what is good and isn't good for you -- not just for your dad. And it may make it easier to follow through for yourself if the worst happens and he doesn't maintain his commitment. 'Course we all want to hope for the best, but when there's already been relapses it's better to go in eyes open.

Of course, if you do get some clarification for yourself, making the consequences of not following through crystal clear to your father is critical. "I'm willing to help as long as ........ However, as soon as x, y, or z, happens, this is what will happen right away."

Can I also recommend a great book which you may have already come across? It's called Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. It's helped me tremendously and may help you look at balancing self-care while trying to support your father.

best,
gf
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:39 PM
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<<<<What about your limits?
What happens if he has alcohol on the property or anywhere else for that matter? What are the immediate consequences and next steps? What happens if he resists attending an appointment or misses one? And how far are you willing to go to faciliate his attending treatment? Are you willing to attend with him as a support if he's willing and compliant? Are you willing to continue to support him in attending treatment if it requries coercion and threats? What role(s) are you willing to take on? >>>>


You have raised some very good questions, and I will need to think about this. Thank you.

As far as me being 25 and caring for him, I have always been "old" for my age. Even my job, I have been doing social work/case management since I was 19. I am starting to think though that I may be "addicted" to caring for others. I took care of my mom and younger siblings from the time I was 13, I took care of my then husband for the short time we were married, I took care of Shirley untill she died, and my job requires me to care for others too, in a way. I don't feel "ok" or like I am worth anything unless I am taking care of someone. When I was in group therapy, I was the one counseling everyone else. I am great at taking care of others, and suck at caring for myself. I have just started to realize this the past few days, and am trying to decide what to do about it. Your suggestion for this book came at the perfect time, and I will pick it up the next time I am at a bookstore. I will try to make sure I read it all- I have a tendancy to read many "self help" books, untill it hits to close to home and I stop reading it.

I will also keep coming here, and thanks again for letting me talk.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:20 PM
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Hi Ranae,

It sounds like you're getting ready to face some difficult stuff inside, and that's a great thing. We can't really do that until we're ready. Your life certainly has been filled with caring for the needs of others from a young age. This is pretty common with many children who have grown up with family addictions, physical or emotional abuse, or neglect.

As you start to read Beattie's book, it's likely you'll start to see a lot of yourself in what's being written about. While there are lots of charactertistics to codependency (the book has an exhaustive list and not all will apply), chronic care-taking and feeling overly responsible for others is classic.
Originally Posted by ranae1221
I am starting to think though that I may be "addicted" to caring for others. I am great at taking care of others, and suck at caring for myself.
Sounds like you're starting to question things, and again, that is a great place to be and the perfect place to start. Often, we don't realize how much we use caring for others as a coping device to help us feel in control of our lives and to provide a much-needed sense of self-worth, while we're causing tremendous harm to ourselves in the name of helping others. And often we're causing harm to others by over-functioning for them.

That's not to say it's not alright to help or support those we care about, but codependents are often way out of balance and ignore their own needs -- and they can end up exhausted, depressed, resentful, overwhelmed, unhappy, bitter, unfulfilled or a combo of all.

Looks like you're in a great place to start searching for some answers on how to start taking better care of you. Remember, baby steps.

best
gf
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:13 AM
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My Mom is the "A" in my life...she has been drinking for 60 years. She is somewhat of a closet drinker. Pours the booze into a coffee cup, like we don't know what she's drinking.
In the afternoon, she has her 1st drink in a drink glass...goes on until she passes out.

I know how difficult it is for you. I tried everything to help her, I finally gave up..I had to for me, I was a mess.

Nice to meet you, keep posting.

Dolly
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:09 AM
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Hi Ranae-

It is so difficult isn't it? Loving someone so much but keeping that healthy boundary. First, yes as others said, I implore you to go back to Alanon. Give it more time, and focus on yourself, not the alcoholic. Remember what you learn there, not who you meet. And you will hear of a great Alanon saying, a teaching in fact, called deatching with love. I personally belive this is the answer. It was for me to others in my life. And it was for someone else who saved me from myself.

You can love someone, but detach. You are not detaching from them personally, but from the pain you are caused. From the problems you are caused. Deatching with love.

What your doing is not compassion although it seems like it. The word is called "enabling". I am sure you have heard this before. I know Jess how hard it is. Maybe tougher than anything in your life. But it IS neccessary if he has any chance of getting well. You cannot change an addict. He/she must want it for themselves. Please think about this. Alanon will show you the way, teach you the way, but you must do it yourself. One saying goes "I can do as much as I can, try as much as I can, and then let go!"

Here is a teaching from my teacher. And I will pray for your peace.
-----------------------------------------

Pema: Idiot compassion is a great expression, which was actually coined by Trungpa Rinpoche. It refers to something we all do a lot of and call it compassion. In some ways, it's whats called enabling. It's the general tendency to give people what they want because you can't bear to see them suffering. Basically, you're not giving them what they need. You're trying to get away from your feeling of I can't bear to see them suffering. In other words, you're doing it for yourself. You're not really doing it for them.

When you get clear on this kind of thing, setting good boundaries and so forth, you know that if someone is violent, for instance, and is being violent towards you —to use that as the example— it's not the compassionate thing to keep allowing that to happen, allowing someone to keep being able to feed their violence and their aggression. So of course, they're going to freak out and be extremely upset. And it will be quite difficult for you to go through the process of actually leaving the situation. But that's the compassionate thing to do.

It's the compassionate thing to do for yourself, because you're part of that dynamic, and before you always stayed. So now you're going to do something frightening, groundless, and quite different. But it's the compassionate thing to do for yourself, rather than stay in a demeaning, destructive, abusive relationship.

And it's the most compassionate thing you can do for them too. They will certainly not thank you for it, and they will certainly not be glad. They'll go through a lot. But if there's any chance for them to wake up or start to work on their side of the problem, their abusive behavior or whatever it might be, that's the only chance, is for you to actually draw the line and get out of there.

We all know a lot of stories of people who had to hit that kind of bottom, where the people that they loved stopped giving them the wrong kind of compassion and just walked out. Then sometimes that wakes a person up and they start to do what they need to do.
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