mushroom

Even when I'm trying hard to choose healthy people to be around, they turn out to be ... well ... at least a little bit off.

Now I did suspect that this good friend of mine at work has a case of depression - if I like him, he must be depressed. That's how it's always been in my past relationships after all, so near as I can tell one reliable symptom of depression in men is, do I like him. Yes? get him some Prozac, now!

And he has heard more than most anyone else about my problems with AH and separating from him, in fact he helped me move, and he has given up telling me I should be taking care of my husband and not running off on him because after all no one's perfect and a wife should take care of her husband. But he doesn't really like to hear about AH so I figured, well if you haven't ever lived through it yourself then you don't understand how bad it is. So other than my liking him, there seemed no reason to suspect he is anything other than Seriously Geeky but Healthy.

Until a conversation we had last week. He was telling me why he'd decided against going back home to visit his aging mother. Well he doesn't get along with his brothers. They don't take care of mom but leave it all to him even though he lives half way across the globe from them. Well ok, that's rough. Then it turns out there's an alcoholic brother living with his mother. 40 years old and has never left home. I'm starting to think, Ohhh Myyyy .... and then he goes into how selfish all his brothers are, refusing to give his mother money or take care of her, and how they all refused to help when their father was dying and I'm wondering, Ya know, that alcoholic brother living at home might have something to do with it! Gee, is there a word in Vietnamese for CODEPENDENT??? 'cause that's what you are, my friend. I know 'cause I've lived through what you're describing! not that I said anything like that to him. Let him tell his story.

And here I thought it was the pressures of living in an industrialized economy with a punitive, judgemental religion and fractured family ties that drove people into alcoholism and drug addiction. Not that there's anything idyllic about living through a civil war and Communist takeover, but still he does like to go on and on about Americans not respecting their family ties and being too independent and 'selfish'. Which could be true, if you don't lump in the boundaries we're all trying to learn.

Just goes to show ... something. Not sure what. Alcoholism is a part of human nature world wide I guess, independent of culture or religion or economy or anything else. And that I have an infallible ability to pick out men who are not just unavailable for a long term romantic relationship but adversely affected by alcoholism too. Even when I'm trying to surround myself with healthy friends! I still get it wrong.

Well considering the family I grew up in I guess it's no surprise I dont' know what healthy looks like. Anyone got any field guide descriptions for 'healthy' or 'normal' I could use? You know, like a bird guide or a wildflower guide.

Tiro

I am only just beginning to understand why I always sought out dysfunctional partners.

My own family of origin fostered an atmosphere of dysfunction to the point where I became familiar and customized to it.

Dysfunction I understood. I did not know what "Normal" was. I only know that the few "normal" people I met in my life I found ways to dislike them and avoid them because the truth is I did not know how to relate to them.

Boundaries I mistook as pettiness and selfishness.
Intimacy I regarded as a challenge and a threat and often as a sign of weakness.

Give me a good an f***ed up individual and I knew exactly how to fix them.

I am more alone today than before I found recovery, but I am happier that way.

Dysfunction I choose to avoid as much as I can . "Normal" people are difficult to find and I still feel a little uncomfortable around them anyway. So my stage is set.

I know I will never find perfection in a mate but at least now I know what I shouild be llooking for.

NewHope

mushroom, you SO made me laugh! I've said the exact same thing about myself a million times. In short, I'm a 43 year old ACOA. From 2-11 my single mother drank...and drank...and drank. Just imagine the perceptions of life I formulated as there was no other family in my life. Luckily she found AA and has now been sober for over 30 years. I'm actually a pretty well adjusted individual (Except...) with great, long-term friendships, a stable home life with a son (16) that is a great kid!

I said Except ... where it comes to men. If I walked into a room of 50 guys who all look exactly the same, make the same amount of money, and are all perfect for me EXCEPT 1 (a plant who is either an alcoholic or exhibits all the 'ism's), my radar will direct me to him like a guided missle! In fact, for 14 years, after divorcing my alcoholic husband, I chose to NOT date or even look for another relationship because I knew I'd pick another one and I'd rather be alone than live that hell again.

So here's the irony. I built a great life during that 14 years, felt very good about myself, and thought "hey, ya know, I think I'm healthy enough now that I will choose better now, so if I meet someone who interests me, I'm open to another relationship." So there's this guy at work who I've known for a few years. We didn't work together a lot, but when we did we had the BEST time. He was married (happily I thought) so it was never more than just a friendship inside of work. Last year I found out that his wife had move out a year or so ago, only a couple of months after his mom died of cancer. The divorce wasn't "on paper" yet, but it was definitely going to happen - and subsequently did 6 months later. Without killing you with all the details let me just say our relationship absolutely BLOSSOMED! We were inseperable for 7 months. It felt so right, so easy, so effortless. I don't think either of us ever wanted that feeling to end.

Even though I could see that his life was a mess and saw red flags, I kept telling myself that it was only because of his current situation, not because of who he is. (Talk about denial!) I think he really wants to be the person he was with me, but he just isn't. You can't give (for very long) what you don't have. Since I thought I knew him so well, just as a friend, I didn't think my judgements were clouded by rose colored glasses. Two weeks after the divorce was inked reality hit him hard and he completely cratered. He had been in complete denial himself for the year and 1/2 his wife was gone. It really isn't about her so much as it is being separated from his 3 kids and the end of what he hoped his marriage would be. Anyway, the baby (that would be me) got thrown out with the bath water and literally overnight, with no noticable problems between us, I was left shattered and stunned.

Being the good ACOA that I am, I blamed myself for his disappearance. What had "I" done to drive him away? What could "I" do to get back the relationship I thought we had? Blah, Blah, blah. You know the drill. After 6 months of therapy, 20lbs lighter (I couldn't eat for 3 months) and 6 months of Al-anon I'm just now starting (notice I say "starting") to understand it wasn't about ME. Ever. He doesn't drink, but he has EVERY 'ism of alcoholism. That's why it felt so damn comfortable. Too bad I didn't go into Al-anon after my divorce. Maybe by now I'd have seen this coming a mile away and run the other direction. Oh well. As they say, when the student is ready to learn, the teacher appears. Here's hoping! LOL It looks like I'll get some practice with my Al-anon principles because while I say he "disappeared" on me, he didn't completely. We've never actually stopped having contact, we just stopped being a "couple." He still seems to want me in his life and I do care about him a lot so lets just see if I can detach with love, focus on healing myself, and still maintain our friendship. Stay tuned....

DesertEyes

I need to be needed. So I am most comfortable with needy people.

The _reason_ I need to be needed is that I never learned how to build self-esteem. I am unable to look at my past acomplishments and feel good about myself as a result. I have to feed myself a constant diet of good deeds in order to keep my "self esteem tank" full. It's like I have a hole at the bottom of my brain where all the good stuff leaks out. Healthy people don't need a whole lot. But dysfunctional people do, so I get more "bang for the buck" with sick people.

What has helped me the most is plain ol' twelve step programs. Several fourth step inventories, a few good shrinks, and lots of listening to folks in meetings who are healthier than me. I am still drawn to the needy folks, and I still have urges to volunteer for stuff that is way beyond my capacity, but I no longer have to _act_ on those feelings. I am also doing much better at _keeping_ the good feeling I have about myself and not having to constantly recharge the "feel good tank".

Mike :-)

utopia

for me,
i wont be attracted to healthy people until i'm healthy, until i associate with positive people in and out of my program. i always used to wonder why i ended up at the loonies table, im a bit of a loony myself. no matter what fine china set i buy its going to be a little cracked for character, just like i will be with scars and wisdom from my past. i think its fine to want to feel needed in a relationship, to require validation because i am a social creature. i also think everybody has quriks and odditys, its just a condition of those that have suffered seem to ask bigger questions about life.

the biggest thing for me was to not look for my parents again in new people, not to transfix. i had to grieve them and let it go, endure all the pain that that involves. i often picked unhealthy people to recreate and change the past rather then face the pains of trauma and abandonment. its not easy but its easier then living life as a constant victim of bad choices.

leviathon

I've struggled with this, you know what I have realized, stop trying so hard, just live, love and be happy... if you are healthy, eventually a healthy person wanders by and wants to know you better... keep in mind we all have baggage, the issue is whether it is carry on that can be stored in the overhead compartment on the path of life, or is sampsonite that weighs down the plane and causes it to fall from the sky.

Stop trying to find someone and just be.