Black and white
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: falls church, va
Posts: 113
Black and white
"Only Black and white, there is no grey for you"
Last night, I went to speak with the woman that will be guiding my mom's intervention. She wanted to speak with just me, one on one. She wanted to let me talk and offer any advice she had. We talked for a little over an hour and at the end of our conversation had come to the conclusion that we need to try and do an intervention. Even if it doesn't work, "at least we know we gave it 100%".
Well, during our talk, I got to open up a lot and talk about the things I've learned while surfing this site and going to Alanon (which is new to me-only been about four times). She said something that really hit home with me. "There is only black and white, there is no grey for you." I thought about it for a minute and she was completely right. All through out my childhood and now into my earlier adulthood there has only been black and white.
I had become completely irrational at certin things/times and I couldn't figure out why. It's because in my mind, it was either this way or that way, there was never any in between.
Do any of you have a problem with this? Just wondering....I'm just starting this entire process of trying to get this stuff out in the open so I can figure out how to relate better with the world and with the changes that the world/life brings us.
Last night, I went to speak with the woman that will be guiding my mom's intervention. She wanted to speak with just me, one on one. She wanted to let me talk and offer any advice she had. We talked for a little over an hour and at the end of our conversation had come to the conclusion that we need to try and do an intervention. Even if it doesn't work, "at least we know we gave it 100%".
Well, during our talk, I got to open up a lot and talk about the things I've learned while surfing this site and going to Alanon (which is new to me-only been about four times). She said something that really hit home with me. "There is only black and white, there is no grey for you." I thought about it for a minute and she was completely right. All through out my childhood and now into my earlier adulthood there has only been black and white.
I had become completely irrational at certin things/times and I couldn't figure out why. It's because in my mind, it was either this way or that way, there was never any in between.
Do any of you have a problem with this? Just wondering....I'm just starting this entire process of trying to get this stuff out in the open so I can figure out how to relate better with the world and with the changes that the world/life brings us.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
Hi Jen.
Sssssshhh...don't tell anyone...but I think Billy Joel is a big ole Codie.
I Go To Extremes ~ Billy Joel
Call me a joker, call me a fool
Right at this moment I'm totally cool
Clear as a crystal, sharp as a knife
I feel like I'm in the prime of my life
Sometimes it feels like I'm going to fast
I don't know how long this feeling will last
Maybe it's only tonight
Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
Too high or too low there ain't no in-betweens
And if I stand or I fall
It's all or nothing at all
Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
Sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm shot
Sometimes I don't know how much more I've got
Maybe I'm headed over the hill
Maybe I've set myself up for the kill
Tell me how much do you think you can take
Until the heart in you is starting to break?
Sometimes it feels like it will
Out of the darkness, intothe light
Leaving the scene of the crime
Either I'm wrong or I'm perfectly right every time
Sometims I lie awake, night after night
Coming apart at the seams
Eager to please, ready to fight
Why do I go to extremes?
Sssssshhh...don't tell anyone...but I think Billy Joel is a big ole Codie.
I Go To Extremes ~ Billy Joel
Call me a joker, call me a fool
Right at this moment I'm totally cool
Clear as a crystal, sharp as a knife
I feel like I'm in the prime of my life
Sometimes it feels like I'm going to fast
I don't know how long this feeling will last
Maybe it's only tonight
Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
Too high or too low there ain't no in-betweens
And if I stand or I fall
It's all or nothing at all
Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
Sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm shot
Sometimes I don't know how much more I've got
Maybe I'm headed over the hill
Maybe I've set myself up for the kill
Tell me how much do you think you can take
Until the heart in you is starting to break?
Sometimes it feels like it will
Out of the darkness, intothe light
Leaving the scene of the crime
Either I'm wrong or I'm perfectly right every time
Sometims I lie awake, night after night
Coming apart at the seams
Eager to please, ready to fight
Why do I go to extremes?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: falls church, va
Posts: 113
Exactly ladies....exactly. I have found that because I don't have a "grey" I tend to get completely irrational over things that most people would just dismiss. This became a BIG problem in my current relationship. I have started to take the steps to fix some of these crazy behavoir patterns so many of us had. I think I have been somewhat successful. I just hope I can continue on this path and eventually be able to work out all these issues.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4
That's definitely me, and as a result I drive myself (and probably everyone around me) nuts by making a big deal out of very small issues. I'm just not at ease when things aren't clearly black or white. That's probably why I ended up being a Math person - there are clearcut right and wrong answers there. :-)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6
Black and white, OR All or nothing thinking is very common among children of alcoholics, or among those who grew up in dysfunctional families.
As you recover, you'll find that there are many more choices available to you than these two extremes. Your world becomes richer, and you learn to navigate it better by making choices that just fit, instead of the all or nothing approach.
As you recover, you'll find that there are many more choices available to you than these two extremes. Your world becomes richer, and you learn to navigate it better by making choices that just fit, instead of the all or nothing approach.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
The most dangerous thing I could ever do as a child in my "toxic family" was to stand still and do nothing. Either I had to run for my life, or run to the abuser and comfort them thru their insanity. If I made the wrong choice I would pay for it in a big way. I learned to pay extreme attention to even the smallest subtleties of my parents' behavior in an attempt to safely predict their needs and reactions. Over the years I got pretty good at it.
My reflexes and habits still operate that way. Whenever I am in a situation where I don't have enough information to make a decision I feel the old panic rising up again. My whole insides is screaming that I have to make a decision immediately, and it better be the right decision, or I'm going to get seriously hurt. Arranging my life so that everything is black or white is an easy way to avoid that old panic. Avoiding involvment with people, places or things that have an amount of unpredictability is a safe place for me.
There's a price I have to pay for that "safe place". As a child it was smart to seek those safe places. As an adult I find that those same "safe" places take me away from friendship, intimacy, happiness, joy and freedom. I am learning that "moderation" is a healthier way to live. Black and white saved my life as a kid, but as an adult I have discovered color. Now there's red and green to replace black and white, and a whole rainbow of other colors to enjoy all the in-between places I never knew before.
Mike :-)
My reflexes and habits still operate that way. Whenever I am in a situation where I don't have enough information to make a decision I feel the old panic rising up again. My whole insides is screaming that I have to make a decision immediately, and it better be the right decision, or I'm going to get seriously hurt. Arranging my life so that everything is black or white is an easy way to avoid that old panic. Avoiding involvment with people, places or things that have an amount of unpredictability is a safe place for me.
There's a price I have to pay for that "safe place". As a child it was smart to seek those safe places. As an adult I find that those same "safe" places take me away from friendship, intimacy, happiness, joy and freedom. I am learning that "moderation" is a healthier way to live. Black and white saved my life as a kid, but as an adult I have discovered color. Now there's red and green to replace black and white, and a whole rainbow of other colors to enjoy all the in-between places I never knew before.
Mike :-)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: new york, ny
Posts: 7
I am constantly amazed by the things I read here. Wow. Yes. I have been told that. I know it now. It has caused me a lot of pain. Slippery slopes are too scary for me and I just refuse to tread there. And the irrationality that comes with this fear.... so destructive.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Second star to the right....
Posts: 845
(((amen deserteyes)))
i also feel black n white. fight or flight. if i make a decision it must be right. perfection or just not good enough and face the terrors that may be inflicted upon me again. failure felt that it was not an option.
in recovery ive learnt that failure is inevitable sometimes, mistakes are needed to learn some things. and life is so much richer in colour. and life has so much more meaning, fulfilment and peace. black n white thinking was leading me to a place of "us and them", to a place of being alwways worse off than everyone, or better than anyone else. a protectigve device which i let go of one day at a time.
welcome to recovery jen.
pace.
i also feel black n white. fight or flight. if i make a decision it must be right. perfection or just not good enough and face the terrors that may be inflicted upon me again. failure felt that it was not an option.
in recovery ive learnt that failure is inevitable sometimes, mistakes are needed to learn some things. and life is so much richer in colour. and life has so much more meaning, fulfilment and peace. black n white thinking was leading me to a place of "us and them", to a place of being alwways worse off than everyone, or better than anyone else. a protectigve device which i let go of one day at a time.
welcome to recovery jen.
pace.
Freak, no Leash
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 50
My sister constantly gets on my case about my need for perfection. I do graphics, and when I do them, everything has to be perfect. I can't have any flaws in anything I do because I can't stand the thought that someone will notice. The funny thing is that the things I obsess over when doing design are things that no one else would notice at all.
I thought I had lots of grey because I always see both sides of an issue, and usually see them very clearly. But yes, in my relationships, it's all or nothing. I couldn't make mistakes as a child, it wasn't tolerated. So now it's part of me that I can't make mistakes now, either. As a child, mistakes were punished with a beating at the hands of my alcoholic father or angry mother. I've never been able to let go of the needs to be perfect, even though I'm far from that. But that's my li'l secret... shhh...
I thought I had lots of grey because I always see both sides of an issue, and usually see them very clearly. But yes, in my relationships, it's all or nothing. I couldn't make mistakes as a child, it wasn't tolerated. So now it's part of me that I can't make mistakes now, either. As a child, mistakes were punished with a beating at the hands of my alcoholic father or angry mother. I've never been able to let go of the needs to be perfect, even though I'm far from that. But that's my li'l secret... shhh...
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
Wow, So many people just like me. lol. I have huge problems with black and white and be a perfectionist.
I thinks it's funny too because I love bright colors.
I am to the extreme in wierd things, like My room is either super clean and perfect or it's a mess and I've got things everywhere (like now, grrr)
Or I am freezing cold, or super hot.
I either feel Really good or really bad, (but that's changing now), It's not like it used to be, I either let people really get to me, Or not at all.
I don't understand why this black and white thinking and stuff happens. I look at a lot of my friends and I think, "How can they do that" and think I'd be so this way or that way. lol,
Anyway, this was a refreshing post to read. Not in the way or part about your mom. My mom is an alcoholic also, I wish you luck.
I thinks it's funny too because I love bright colors.
I am to the extreme in wierd things, like My room is either super clean and perfect or it's a mess and I've got things everywhere (like now, grrr)
Or I am freezing cold, or super hot.
I either feel Really good or really bad, (but that's changing now), It's not like it used to be, I either let people really get to me, Or not at all.
I don't understand why this black and white thinking and stuff happens. I look at a lot of my friends and I think, "How can they do that" and think I'd be so this way or that way. lol,
Anyway, this was a refreshing post to read. Not in the way or part about your mom. My mom is an alcoholic also, I wish you luck.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 1
In my life I have learned that black and white makes people very nervous, and sadly that's where I live. If I look at my relationships they are either always really good or falling apart (as they are now). If things are good, it's just a matter of time befor they go sour. I understand that people do not see things as "cut and dry" as I. My wife has many more emotions and feelings and thoughts... hmmmm. I suppose I have them too they just will not come out.
When the relationship goes bad I see it as done and over, and if it is who cares. Even the most minor argument can trigger me to think it is time to end it all. I can allow the smallest problems to drag on and on until they are huge issues. Then, how do I fix them? I do not know how to fix them, so I let them keep growing, and then - my counselor calls it stuffing the elephant - they are beyond control.
Suppose it stems from my Dad being an alcoholic parent and never around (thank God). and my Mom being unable to deal with anything so she just ignored me and let me do whatever, to say she was detahced is an understament. Not much guidance, and I think I developed my relationship skills from her.
What a mess. I do like knowing there are others who struggle and try to see why. Thanks Guys!
When the relationship goes bad I see it as done and over, and if it is who cares. Even the most minor argument can trigger me to think it is time to end it all. I can allow the smallest problems to drag on and on until they are huge issues. Then, how do I fix them? I do not know how to fix them, so I let them keep growing, and then - my counselor calls it stuffing the elephant - they are beyond control.
Suppose it stems from my Dad being an alcoholic parent and never around (thank God). and my Mom being unable to deal with anything so she just ignored me and let me do whatever, to say she was detahced is an understament. Not much guidance, and I think I developed my relationship skills from her.
What a mess. I do like knowing there are others who struggle and try to see why. Thanks Guys!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Second star to the right....
Posts: 845
this black and white thing. in doing step 4, making a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, im learning a lot more depth about my own emotions and i was never aware how rich and complex i was, how detailed and intricate my soul is, and with that its opening my eyes to the same in my relationships. its like making a tapestry but suddenly i now know all these extra colours i never really knew about, i always used to pretend i knew the colours magenta and abergine just how i used to pretend i knew when my relationships were healthy or not. i learn just as much about others and my dealings with others when i delve into knowing myself.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: dennis, ms
Posts: 28
This fits me too. I'm either angry at someone are happy with them for something that they did are didn't do.
My dad was the alcholic and my brother and sister I guess took up care giving roles for after school we would clean house and cook supper since mother was working.
I'm divorced right now, which is the right thing for he wasn't treating me right and he also quite going to his meetings.
Before we seperated I told him I would go to a meeting if he went to one. I don't use but I guess I fall into the co dependent role. I went to an Al non meeting to tonight and it helped I had forgotten how much I needed to be going to the meeting too.
Sarah
Very good post.
My dad was the alcholic and my brother and sister I guess took up care giving roles for after school we would clean house and cook supper since mother was working.
I'm divorced right now, which is the right thing for he wasn't treating me right and he also quite going to his meetings.
Before we seperated I told him I would go to a meeting if he went to one. I don't use but I guess I fall into the co dependent role. I went to an Al non meeting to tonight and it helped I had forgotten how much I needed to be going to the meeting too.
Sarah
Very good post.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
