How true is this?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
How true is this?
This Be the Verse
They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f*cked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
P. Larkin
They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f*cked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
P. Larkin
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England, UK
Posts: 197
Originally Posted by minnie
They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
How extraordinarily perceptive. But they will deny it until the cows come home, or until the day they die.
Thank you for the reminder.
Rich
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
They also gave us many gifts. I didn't have children, but no matter how sick we are, we still pass on love and gifts. We are all God's kids. Hugs, Magic
{tap}{tap}...Is this thing on?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Getting There
Posts: 276
Minnie,
I met with my counselor this week and we discussed how hard it is to realize that our parents don't determine our value. Especially since they were in a way the first embodiment of what we saw an HP or God as being. How they treated me is how I thougth my HP saw me. Flawed, awkward, unworthly of love.
I am working every day to remind myself that God determines my value. That I look to my HP for my value, not to the people around me, including my parents. I've started a little mantra, "God determines my value", when I start to obsess about things my parents have said, not said, done, not done, and it helps immensely.
I wish you some peace today.
Petunia
I met with my counselor this week and we discussed how hard it is to realize that our parents don't determine our value. Especially since they were in a way the first embodiment of what we saw an HP or God as being. How they treated me is how I thougth my HP saw me. Flawed, awkward, unworthly of love.
I am working every day to remind myself that God determines my value. That I look to my HP for my value, not to the people around me, including my parents. I've started a little mantra, "God determines my value", when I start to obsess about things my parents have said, not said, done, not done, and it helps immensely.
I wish you some peace today.
Petunia
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Petunia
I totally agree!!
However, I too am working through issues of my childhood and upbringing which have created certain behaviours in me. Now, it is up to me to determine which of those are unhealthy and which of those are worth hanging on to. I have no blame or resentment towards my family, or indeed anyone, for who I am today. But I need to understand my influences in order to understand myself.
I just liked this poem because the message I got was that we do learn behaviours from our parents, but they knew no better because those were behaviours that THEY learnt in childhood. And that is why I am working so hard to break the cycle.
I don't look to anyone else for my value. I am learning to value myself.
Love
Minnie
xxx
I totally agree!!
However, I too am working through issues of my childhood and upbringing which have created certain behaviours in me. Now, it is up to me to determine which of those are unhealthy and which of those are worth hanging on to. I have no blame or resentment towards my family, or indeed anyone, for who I am today. But I need to understand my influences in order to understand myself.
I just liked this poem because the message I got was that we do learn behaviours from our parents, but they knew no better because those were behaviours that THEY learnt in childhood. And that is why I am working so hard to break the cycle.
I don't look to anyone else for my value. I am learning to value myself.
Love
Minnie
xxx
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 37
Wow, Minnie. That one hit home. But the cool part for me is when I got to where I could look at my parents know, they did the best they could. Granted, the best they had sucked most of the time, but what the heck. It's sort of like an AA meeting, take what you can and leave the rest. Life's too short to remain angry at them I think. Besides, I think I made it through and learned from it so that I could help my daughter. I divorced her father ten years ago, and he still visits with her even though he's still an active alcoholic/addict. She has amazingly enough learned to take what she can and leave the rest, even if the lesson is why she should not drink and drug. She also has learned that his problems are his, and not to take them on for herself (he has tried to dump on her even as a little kid). Sometimes, some of us can be parents, and it turns out well.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Something I am learning is that it never goes away. I do accept my parents and I do know that they had their own reason's for behaving the way they behaved. I hold no anger.
But I am 52 years old and occasionally, rarely, I can still be brought to tears by them....a child's tears. When I was 30 looking at 50 I never dreamed that was possible but now I know it is. It is always there and so it is for my mother I suppose.
Anyway just thinking outloud,
JT
But I am 52 years old and occasionally, rarely, I can still be brought to tears by them....a child's tears. When I was 30 looking at 50 I never dreamed that was possible but now I know it is. It is always there and so it is for my mother I suppose.
Anyway just thinking outloud,
JT
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Westbank, BC
Posts: 5
I think this is not true, in my eyes. If you want to have kids that is up to you. It is your choice on how you want to raise them, if you want to raise your children how you were treated then don't have any. But If you want to change the cycle, and treat your kids proper then have them.
How you act and how you preceive things is up to you, You are your own person.
you can't change what happened in the past, so let the past go. You can though change the present and your future on what choices you make.
If you really want something in life, you can have it. But you need to work(on yourself) and believe in yourself.
Children are not to be precieved as accidents or something that just happens. Children are a gift from god. Not everyone can have child and the ones who can have child should be greatly appreciated. If you have children it is because they are here for a purpose. The purpose my not be for you, it maybe for someone else in the future that your child will some how touch in their life. But they could be there for you, to help you with your journey.
If everyone thought like how the poem said, then you or me wouldn't be here.
How you act and how you preceive things is up to you, You are your own person.
you can't change what happened in the past, so let the past go. You can though change the present and your future on what choices you make.
If you really want something in life, you can have it. But you need to work(on yourself) and believe in yourself.
Children are not to be precieved as accidents or something that just happens. Children are a gift from god. Not everyone can have child and the ones who can have child should be greatly appreciated. If you have children it is because they are here for a purpose. The purpose my not be for you, it maybe for someone else in the future that your child will some how touch in their life. But they could be there for you, to help you with your journey.
If everyone thought like how the poem said, then you or me wouldn't be here.
and that is all that matters..
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 73
I need to disagree about not having children. I am working hard on changing my thought patterns and it shows by the way I raise my children. I believe that we all can change. We need to reparent ourselves to make up for the lack of parenting in our childhood. We also need to use these lessons when we parent our own children.
I for one, am stopping the cycle with my children. And I feel good about that!
I for one, am stopping the cycle with my children. And I feel good about that!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 17
Easy to blame
Well said I Am....
It's one thing to recognize what has happened in the past and learn from it. It is another to use that as excuses to avoid any and all responsibility for what we do or have become. If we're f***** up, lets concentrate on getting un f##### up and not wallow in the "how" it happened.
I'm just learning this concept and it can be difficult to grasp, but I'm finding the rewards come in small bits and pieces, just enough to see the value of staying with it. wis2no
It's one thing to recognize what has happened in the past and learn from it. It is another to use that as excuses to avoid any and all responsibility for what we do or have become. If we're f***** up, lets concentrate on getting un f##### up and not wallow in the "how" it happened.
I'm just learning this concept and it can be difficult to grasp, but I'm finding the rewards come in small bits and pieces, just enough to see the value of staying with it. wis2no
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 4
"I for one, am stopping the cycle with my children. And I feel good about that!"
Man, I'm hoping I can do that. I used to promise myself that I would never have kids, because I was terrified I'd raise them like I was raised. However, I then realized that despite my upbringing, I think that the world needs me and what I have to offer (including my progeny...). Even more, if I raise my children well, all the better. Everyone is important, and the world especially needs good people. I'm hoping I can do my part to contribute to that.
(a side note...it's easy to say all of that, it's much harder to always believe it...
)
- Sesquipedalian (newbie to this message board and Alanon...)
Man, I'm hoping I can do that. I used to promise myself that I would never have kids, because I was terrified I'd raise them like I was raised. However, I then realized that despite my upbringing, I think that the world needs me and what I have to offer (including my progeny...). Even more, if I raise my children well, all the better. Everyone is important, and the world especially needs good people. I'm hoping I can do my part to contribute to that.
(a side note...it's easy to say all of that, it's much harder to always believe it...
)- Sesquipedalian (newbie to this message board and Alanon...)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ma
Posts: 145
Hi,
Its my first post in this rm i tend to hang out in another but when I read the poem I felt I had to comment. Does anyone think its odd that often we look at our folks and say "man they screwed us up" or stuff like that, but never give much thought if they were messed up by their folks?
At what point do we say it is my responsibility now. I can get well, or not but it is now MY choice. My folks made mistakes that led to certain tendencies I have. They are not cast in stone and it is up to me to act or not. What about the folks who give thier kids everything and they are still messed up? Is it the parents fault?
Did they make mistakes? Yes/ Did they do it intentionaly? NO. My opinion (and it is just mine) is that we do ourselves no good blaming or using as excuses our folks. They (in general, not all) were not out to hurt me, or harm me. They may have because they are human..
Its my first post in this rm i tend to hang out in another but when I read the poem I felt I had to comment. Does anyone think its odd that often we look at our folks and say "man they screwed us up" or stuff like that, but never give much thought if they were messed up by their folks?
At what point do we say it is my responsibility now. I can get well, or not but it is now MY choice. My folks made mistakes that led to certain tendencies I have. They are not cast in stone and it is up to me to act or not. What about the folks who give thier kids everything and they are still messed up? Is it the parents fault?
Did they make mistakes? Yes/ Did they do it intentionaly? NO. My opinion (and it is just mine) is that we do ourselves no good blaming or using as excuses our folks. They (in general, not all) were not out to hurt me, or harm me. They may have because they are human..
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
So as a dad I can take the credit for every good thing my children have done?
As poorly as my mother was gifted in how to raise chldren... Her faults as seen by me as a child helped me grow and know right from wrong.
My mother's alcohalism and my seeing first hand what alcohol can and does do to a person may have been the reason I accepted change so fast when I looked to stop my own drinking.
Once a person reaches adulthood and can think for themself... it is their own responsabilty to do what is right. My mommy didn't hug me when I was 12 is not an excuse for robing a bank at age 25.
"I" am responsable for my own actions. Once I accept that and deal with "my" own self and life, I can grow and learn. "It was mom's fault" is looked at by me as a cop-out on dealing with life.
As poorly as my mother was gifted in how to raise chldren... Her faults as seen by me as a child helped me grow and know right from wrong.
My mother's alcohalism and my seeing first hand what alcohol can and does do to a person may have been the reason I accepted change so fast when I looked to stop my own drinking.
Once a person reaches adulthood and can think for themself... it is their own responsabilty to do what is right. My mommy didn't hug me when I was 12 is not an excuse for robing a bank at age 25.
"I" am responsable for my own actions. Once I accept that and deal with "my" own self and life, I can grow and learn. "It was mom's fault" is looked at by me as a cop-out on dealing with life.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by ahcb
What about the folks who give thier kids everything and they are still messed up? Is it the parents fault?
What about the child who is raised with nothing on the city streets and grows up to become a preacher?
Who we are gets molded but that isn't set in stone either.
Clay can be reshaped.
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Alcoholism and other forms of human suffering don't pick and choose because of how someone is raised, where they are from, how much or how little they have. Learning to live in balance is a personal challenge for each person. No matter how well or not well a child is raised, they still have to find balance within. No one, not even the most loving and healthy parent, can give them that. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 16
I've come to the place in my life where I feel it is what it is and everything happens for a reason. I don't blame my parents anymore, they didn't have perfect upbringings either.
There are also many people who have had worse lives and are doing so much better than I am and people who have had better lives and the best parents and are doing so, so much worse than I am. Upbringing affects who you are, you have to decide if & how you let it affect you.The best way I have learned is I not let it consume me, I open up the pain deal with it forgive and move on. I am the only person I can change. I choose to break the cycle, I hope you do too.
~SKI
There are also many people who have had worse lives and are doing so much better than I am and people who have had better lives and the best parents and are doing so, so much worse than I am. Upbringing affects who you are, you have to decide if & how you let it affect you.The best way I have learned is I not let it consume me, I open up the pain deal with it forgive and move on. I am the only person I can change. I choose to break the cycle, I hope you do too.
~SKI
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Second star to the right....
Posts: 845
good to be back online,
i spent a lot of my life feeling that i was merely a social construct of abuse effects, society and politics and religion. now i know that love, spirit and kindness have also made me who i am, and rather than being an effect of damages im becoming a real person, who i was born to be, fuller, calmer, wiser and loving. dont forget to look at both the positive and negative aspects of life that influence our development.
i spent a lot of my life feeling that i was merely a social construct of abuse effects, society and politics and religion. now i know that love, spirit and kindness have also made me who i am, and rather than being an effect of damages im becoming a real person, who i was born to be, fuller, calmer, wiser and loving. dont forget to look at both the positive and negative aspects of life that influence our development.
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