Need some advice on dealing with my dad
getting there
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,314
Need some advice on dealing with my dad
Hi everyone,
I normally post on the Alcoholics/Addicts forum, but I need some help with how to deal with my dad right now. Let me start with some background.
My mom was an alcoholic, drinking on and off for many of my adult years. I spent a lot of time putting my life on hold, trying to save her over and over again. She did finally stop drinking, but got COPD, so I spent the past several years worrying a lot and trying to figure out how to get her the best care. Despite her shortcomings, she was an amazing person and we were very close. She passed away last October, having been sober for 9 years.
My parents divorced when I was in high school but remained close. I think my dad is taking her death very hard as she was one of his only confidants. I've never been that close to my dad, but he would keep up with what I was doing through my mom. Around the time my mom died, he got notice that his landlord was putting his house up for sale and he would have to move. He has to be out by February 21st. My dad is a hermit, not a very pleasant person, paranoid about the world, and doesn't like other people, thinks they are all stupid and beneath him. He's rarely worked for anyone else, has been self-employed with minimal income his whole life because of this and the fact that he doesn't like to be told what to do. The rental market in our city is very challenging, and therefore you have to jump through a lot of hoops and be really on top of a search if you're going to be successful. Despite having had several months to deal with this, he has literally done nothing, and says (I'm not kidding) his astrological charts tell him it'll all be fine, so he doesn't feel like anything needs to be done. I know this is because he is overwhelmed by the idea of going out to try to find something, and is angry about having to follow the rules, show his financial information, and probably get turned down a lot, so he's given up. I've been trying to stay out of it, hoping he would just pull it together, but he called me last week, I think pretty drunk (I don't think he's an alcoholic), to dump on me that he's not planning to look and will just live in a motel or his car, and that I shouldn't worry about it and he has to do it his way. I can tell that he wasn't in his right mind on that call - either from drinking, or maybe being overwhelmed with the situation, and some magical thinking (which he does a lot). But I was definitely left with the feeling that I should be doing more.
So, getting to how this impacts me. I am very angry. I was willing to go the extra mile for her because she was an amazing mom growing up, did all the work and always supported me until the day she died. My dad, in contrast, was there but not really involved, and was always very critical of me and my brother. He wasn't abusive, but he never treated us in a way that would build mutual respect or caring. He cheated on my mom, which is what led to their divorce, although he would never take accountability for that or anything else.
I gave up a lot to help my mom (which maybe wasn't the best decision), but now I'm 41 years old and I feel like I should get to have my life, not be saddled with another parent who could take care of himself but chooses not to. I'm up for a huge promotion at work that would start April 1st. I feel like I should almost give up on it because there is so much stress involved in this situation with my dad and I can't focus the way I need to. I wake up in a panic every day and I don't know how to make it stop. I'm working with a counselor, who is helping me determine my boundaries and what I'm actually willing to do, but I can't find a way to stop the panic attacks, knots in my stomach, and complete inability to focus I experience when I think about my dad living in his car. I don't really like him, but I don't want him to end up like that. I also don't have the time or energy to do it for him or convince him that he should be trying harder. I'm just over it all.
I normally post on the Alcoholics/Addicts forum, but I need some help with how to deal with my dad right now. Let me start with some background.
My mom was an alcoholic, drinking on and off for many of my adult years. I spent a lot of time putting my life on hold, trying to save her over and over again. She did finally stop drinking, but got COPD, so I spent the past several years worrying a lot and trying to figure out how to get her the best care. Despite her shortcomings, she was an amazing person and we were very close. She passed away last October, having been sober for 9 years.
My parents divorced when I was in high school but remained close. I think my dad is taking her death very hard as she was one of his only confidants. I've never been that close to my dad, but he would keep up with what I was doing through my mom. Around the time my mom died, he got notice that his landlord was putting his house up for sale and he would have to move. He has to be out by February 21st. My dad is a hermit, not a very pleasant person, paranoid about the world, and doesn't like other people, thinks they are all stupid and beneath him. He's rarely worked for anyone else, has been self-employed with minimal income his whole life because of this and the fact that he doesn't like to be told what to do. The rental market in our city is very challenging, and therefore you have to jump through a lot of hoops and be really on top of a search if you're going to be successful. Despite having had several months to deal with this, he has literally done nothing, and says (I'm not kidding) his astrological charts tell him it'll all be fine, so he doesn't feel like anything needs to be done. I know this is because he is overwhelmed by the idea of going out to try to find something, and is angry about having to follow the rules, show his financial information, and probably get turned down a lot, so he's given up. I've been trying to stay out of it, hoping he would just pull it together, but he called me last week, I think pretty drunk (I don't think he's an alcoholic), to dump on me that he's not planning to look and will just live in a motel or his car, and that I shouldn't worry about it and he has to do it his way. I can tell that he wasn't in his right mind on that call - either from drinking, or maybe being overwhelmed with the situation, and some magical thinking (which he does a lot). But I was definitely left with the feeling that I should be doing more.
So, getting to how this impacts me. I am very angry. I was willing to go the extra mile for her because she was an amazing mom growing up, did all the work and always supported me until the day she died. My dad, in contrast, was there but not really involved, and was always very critical of me and my brother. He wasn't abusive, but he never treated us in a way that would build mutual respect or caring. He cheated on my mom, which is what led to their divorce, although he would never take accountability for that or anything else.
I gave up a lot to help my mom (which maybe wasn't the best decision), but now I'm 41 years old and I feel like I should get to have my life, not be saddled with another parent who could take care of himself but chooses not to. I'm up for a huge promotion at work that would start April 1st. I feel like I should almost give up on it because there is so much stress involved in this situation with my dad and I can't focus the way I need to. I wake up in a panic every day and I don't know how to make it stop. I'm working with a counselor, who is helping me determine my boundaries and what I'm actually willing to do, but I can't find a way to stop the panic attacks, knots in my stomach, and complete inability to focus I experience when I think about my dad living in his car. I don't really like him, but I don't want him to end up like that. I also don't have the time or energy to do it for him or convince him that he should be trying harder. I'm just over it all.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, colagirl. You don't say where you live, but I am assuming there is subsidized housing for seniors? I would get him on that list, as he probably qualifies. He likely won't get anything for a while. My mother was on the housing list for about a year before her name came up or an apartment. She didn't take it, btw.
It's a start. I understand your concern about how much you are expected to do for your father. Only you know the answer to that.
You could just let things unfold. There are many motels now that are more lke apartments than motels.they often aren't great, but he could stay in one for a while. My town has a rule against permanently living in a motel. Maybe yours does as well.
Another out of the box living space to consider is a mobile home park. They often have rentals. Again, not so great but...
Good luck. Hope it works out.
It's a start. I understand your concern about how much you are expected to do for your father. Only you know the answer to that.
You could just let things unfold. There are many motels now that are more lke apartments than motels.they often aren't great, but he could stay in one for a while. My town has a rule against permanently living in a motel. Maybe yours does as well.
Another out of the box living space to consider is a mobile home park. They often have rentals. Again, not so great but...
Good luck. Hope it works out.
getting there
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,314
Thanks you guys. I'll mention the affordable housing idea, but he hates the government and probably would rather be homeless than do that. He's in a position of being a beggar who still thinks he can be a chooser.
You mentioned mobile homes - he has looked at buying one, since he has some small cash reserves but not a large income stream, but of course, finds a million things wrong with the idea. He says he'd rather rent one first to see if he likes it. I say "okay, are you looking into that?" he says "no, it'll work out somehow if it's meant to". He's very lazy and a procrastinator. He's pretty arrogant and gets stuck in thinking that he shouldn't have to do any work himself - this is how he got into his current situation, always living moment to moment, just getting by, now finding as a senior in an expensive city (Portland), that he can't keep up anymore. I do think buying a mobile home is his best option. But his "astrology charts" disagree with the idea, so I don't get anywhere trying to convince him.
I don't know if we have restrictions on living in a motel permanently, I can look into that. When he told me that was his plan, I asked what was he going to do then, still just sit around waiting for something to happen magically? And he clearly hadn't thought past just getting there initially. He's so lazy that I could see him staying there as long as possible.
You mentioned mobile homes - he has looked at buying one, since he has some small cash reserves but not a large income stream, but of course, finds a million things wrong with the idea. He says he'd rather rent one first to see if he likes it. I say "okay, are you looking into that?" he says "no, it'll work out somehow if it's meant to". He's very lazy and a procrastinator. He's pretty arrogant and gets stuck in thinking that he shouldn't have to do any work himself - this is how he got into his current situation, always living moment to moment, just getting by, now finding as a senior in an expensive city (Portland), that he can't keep up anymore. I do think buying a mobile home is his best option. But his "astrology charts" disagree with the idea, so I don't get anywhere trying to convince him.
I don't know if we have restrictions on living in a motel permanently, I can look into that. When he told me that was his plan, I asked what was he going to do then, still just sit around waiting for something to happen magically? And he clearly hadn't thought past just getting there initially. He's so lazy that I could see him staying there as long as possible.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Your dad sounds a lot like my sib. In my case, my sib has not done anything on his own for so long that I doubt he would know how to begin. He doesn't have much money--lives with my mother--doesn't have a checking account, and he, too, has a problem with authority and following the rules. I believe that my sib has some degree of mental illness. He has definitely lost mental ground because he is an active alcoholic and has been for many years.
It's very tough to help someone who doesn't want to be helped. sounds lke the mobile home idea mght have some traction with him, and you could try following that up, but, really, there isn't a lot you can do without his cooperation.
I don't know your father, but he sounds like a tough one. Even if, by some miracle you are able to get him situated, he won't thank you for it. I know my sib wouldn't. He would just consider his due that someone is taking care of things for him.
It's a frustrating situation.
It's very tough to help someone who doesn't want to be helped. sounds lke the mobile home idea mght have some traction with him, and you could try following that up, but, really, there isn't a lot you can do without his cooperation.
I don't know your father, but he sounds like a tough one. Even if, by some miracle you are able to get him situated, he won't thank you for it. I know my sib wouldn't. He would just consider his due that someone is taking care of things for him.
It's a frustrating situation.
getting there
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,314
That's for sure true! He thinks that all of this is someone else's fault - the housing market in Portland is crazy (true), so he's therefore not responsible; most properties are rented by property management companies instead of private owners (true), therefore it's harder for him to manipulate somebody and so he's not responsible; we've had a lot of bad weather and places were closed for the holidays (true), so therefore he's not responsible. He doesn't seem to see that at the end of it, he's still the one who's going to be homeless, no matter how hard he blames external circumstances for his inability to figure out the problem.
I've wondered if he has a degree of mental illness. He's certainly capable - he has a professional degree and certification and could have made much more of his career if he'd chosen to. But he's shut himself off for years, listening to ultra-conservative radio and reading conspiracy theories on the internet, to the point where he doesn't trust anyone and thinks the world is out to get him. He has extreme difficulty with any social interaction, even as simple as ordering in a restaurant. He's also a pathological procrastinator - he'll sit around for weeks not getting any work done, even though there is literally nothing else going on in his life. He just wants to sit there and zone out and think about how much he hates the world.
You are right that I can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves, just like when my mom was an active alcoholic. I just wish I could make myself stop panicking over it, as that does no good either.
I've wondered if he has a degree of mental illness. He's certainly capable - he has a professional degree and certification and could have made much more of his career if he'd chosen to. But he's shut himself off for years, listening to ultra-conservative radio and reading conspiracy theories on the internet, to the point where he doesn't trust anyone and thinks the world is out to get him. He has extreme difficulty with any social interaction, even as simple as ordering in a restaurant. He's also a pathological procrastinator - he'll sit around for weeks not getting any work done, even though there is literally nothing else going on in his life. He just wants to sit there and zone out and think about how much he hates the world.
You are right that I can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves, just like when my mom was an active alcoholic. I just wish I could make myself stop panicking over it, as that does no good either.
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Originally Posted by colagirl 
I wake up in a panic every day and I don't know how to make it stop. I'm working with a counselor, who is helping me determine my boundaries and what I'm actually willing to do, but I can't find a way to stop the panic attacks, knots in my stomach, and complete inability to focus I experience when I think about my dad living in his car. I don't really like him, but I don't want him to end up like that. I also don't have the time or energy to do it for him or convince him that he should be trying harder. I'm just over it all.
In this world, pain is inevitable. Suffering, however, is optional. Is it painful to search for a new home? Absolutely. But rather than face that pain and take care of his business to find a new home, he is choosing to suffer. This is not your fight, and intervening will do nothing for you, and ultimately remove an opportunity for him to grow. Whether he ever makes use of that opportunity is not yours to decide.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Eddie makes some good points, cola. I wish there was something I could say that would take some of your panic about your father away. At the end of the day, it is really up to him. Maybe if he does live in his car for a while, with all of he hassles that entails, he may change his mind about things. You never know.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Hi Colagirl
I hope we can be a support to you during this difficult time. I am adding my input on a couple of comments you made. Please take what you want and leave the rest.
You wrote: " I know this is because he is overwhelmed by the idea of going out to try to find something, and is angry about having to follow the rules, show his financial information, and probably get turned down a lot, so he's given up."
Do you believe this because he TOLD you? If not, you have no way of knowing all this.
Maybe he needs to hit bottom in his own way and be on the street for a while, as harsh as this sounds.
I know you love your Dad. This has to be excruciatingly painful for you to see all this.
Please work on YOU first and foremost. Keep coming back!
I hope we can be a support to you during this difficult time. I am adding my input on a couple of comments you made. Please take what you want and leave the rest.
You wrote: " I know this is because he is overwhelmed by the idea of going out to try to find something, and is angry about having to follow the rules, show his financial information, and probably get turned down a lot, so he's given up."
Do you believe this because he TOLD you? If not, you have no way of knowing all this.
Maybe he needs to hit bottom in his own way and be on the street for a while, as harsh as this sounds.
I know you love your Dad. This has to be excruciatingly painful for you to see all this.
Please work on YOU first and foremost. Keep coming back!
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Eden
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Your father is an adult. As much as you love him, you don't owe him anything, especially if he's not even making an effort to act like a responsible adult. His issues don't have to be yours. They just don't. Live your life and do what you need to do to take care of you. Sounds to me like your dad just refuses to live life on life's terms and it's not your responsibility to help him do so. It's his. Jettison your guilt and live your life. Your dad is perfectly capable of doing the same, if he chooses to.
getting there
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,314
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I need to keep reminding myself that it isn't my responsibility to live his life for him. It's so hard to watch him make ridiculously poor choices that are going to have a huge impact on his quality of life, and I can't even begin to comprehend why he can't pull it together with serious potential consequences. But I have to let it go unless I want to have a nervous breakdown.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
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Originally Posted by colagirl
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I need to keep reminding myself that it isn't my responsibility to live his life for him. It's so hard to watch him make ridiculously poor choices that are going to have a huge impact on his quality of life, and I can't even begin to comprehend why he can't pull it together with serious potential consequences. But I have to let it go unless I want to have a nervous breakdown.
It's hard -- he'll keep manipulating things to make it look like he's a helpless victim of circumstances and that it's all your fault... and at some point, if he really does end up living in his car, you may end up at that decision point that I was so relieved not to have it come to.
This is a good crew, though -- you can always post questions, feelings, experiences, and you'll get lots of understanding and helpful ideas! Good luck.
T
Last edited by tromboneliness; 01-20-2017 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Clarified the chronology on various craziness described
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
One analogy that has helped me in understanding how crazy-making it is to try and control another person and bend them to my will is with driving a car. When I'm in my brain and own self minding to my business, I'm the driver of my car. However, if I spend a lot of energy sitting in the driver's seat of someone else's brain and trying to drive them around (which, by the way, we can never truly know what another person truly feels inside - we just don't) - who's driving my car?
Ultimately, I can't be the sole proprietor of decisions of both myself and other people. I'll wreck my own car (my own life) if I ignore the wheel on my life and focus so much on what other people are doing.
I've heard it said that the alcoholic has their hand vice-gripped around the bottle, but the Al-anon person has themselves vice-gripped around the alcoholic.
Just think on the possibility of how much of your father's life and decisions you're taking on (are you vice-gripped around him?) - and do you have any room left for you? The fact that you would give up a promotion is a red-flag to just that - you may be neglecting yourself for him. Something to also consider is if you're judging his life as well and not letting him decide how to live it.
I don't know because I can't speak for you. I'm just giving you some things to consider.
Take care of you. You deserve it.
Ultimately, I can't be the sole proprietor of decisions of both myself and other people. I'll wreck my own car (my own life) if I ignore the wheel on my life and focus so much on what other people are doing.
I've heard it said that the alcoholic has their hand vice-gripped around the bottle, but the Al-anon person has themselves vice-gripped around the alcoholic.
Just think on the possibility of how much of your father's life and decisions you're taking on (are you vice-gripped around him?) - and do you have any room left for you? The fact that you would give up a promotion is a red-flag to just that - you may be neglecting yourself for him. Something to also consider is if you're judging his life as well and not letting him decide how to live it.
I don't know because I can't speak for you. I'm just giving you some things to consider.
Take care of you. You deserve it.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 157
Colagirl, if you contact an Elder Abuse Program in your area, you can speak to someone who help you deal with the situation your dad is in. He's not being abused but these are the people who will know how to help you. Once you have connected him with professionals (spring it on him) and they lay it out for him he may react in a way that surprises you. Hope he comes around.
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cola, I really really urge you to step back and let him manage this himself, even if that means living out of his car. It sounds like he's playing you, as a child would, but he's an adult.
Let it play out. While he has you on a string there's no need for him to challenge himself.
Let it play out. While he has you on a string there's no need for him to challenge himself.
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