Did you ever doubt your perceptions?

Old 06-07-2016, 11:43 AM
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Did you ever doubt your perceptions?

Hi everyone,

I typically post on another board but think I need to start checking in here too. I got out of a relationship about three months ago and I'm having a difficult day today.

My ex's drinking was almost a constant source of stress for me but many seem to be rallying around him, saying that it's not that bad. I've lightened up how much I drink a lot lately so that I could clear my head and try to get a better handle and view on things. I still believe that I am surrounded by problem drinkers but I'm always wondering if I blew things out of proportion.

I read stories here from people who seem healthy and clear headed who are struggling with their ACOA partners and it breaks my heart. I can see myself in their stories and it makes me wonder if my perceptions are correct. I have also been learning a lot about codependency and alcoholic selfishness/narcissism and recognize that's a possibility as well.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if as an ACOA I overreacted to his drinking... there are parts of me that don't believe I did for various reasons including he drank until he passed out, slurred his words, and wouldn't come home all night. There's another part of me that knows I have my own set of issues and I'm scared I made things up just to push him away.

I hope I'm making sense and that someone can offer a word or two

Thanks
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:45 PM
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Hello expanding,

I think there is a karpman drama triangle going on with your peer group/family.. you slowed down your drinking, and it sounds like you spoke up about some troubling behaviors of your ex. And everyone is helping him stay with the status quo. You changed your behavior and they are all working to keep the old system going.

The other game at play is probably denial.

http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html

So I actually think your perception is probably 100% accurate.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:48 AM
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Are the people who are rallying around him heavy drinkers/users...or are they family or others who are threatened by anything that might change their group delusions? My FOO was a typical dysfunctional mess...troubled, domineering father who we all tiptoed around...and a mother in utter denial to anything negative, "we're so lucky that we're such a happy family!" and God help anyone who suggested otherwise. So the good news is that we ACOA have terrific instincts in reading people and situations...the bad news is that we never trust those instincts.

Trust yourself. At a minimum, staying out all night drinking is NOT acceptable behavior in a healthy partnership.

Sending you hug.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:31 AM
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FWIW my 2 cents are that it doesn't matter. Your perception is what matters to YOU and it's what you need to keep yourself healthy.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:15 AM
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My alcoholic ex, who I met when we were both sober, proceeded to cheat, lie, and psychologically abuse me. She is in recovery now and I had to break up with her because she still treated me like dirt when she was sober.

My father is an alcoholic and my mother abused drugs and alcohol. I'm almost a year sober and I think all alcoholics/addicts have internal problems they attempt to mask with a substance. Human beings are complex, and I have discovered that my judgments of them are usually based on artificial signs that I often misread and misinterpret.

I wish I had trusted my instincts about my ex. It was a terrible relationship and I feel nothing around women now. Nothing. My ex was abusive and withdrawn just like my mother was.

I hope that you feel better and decide if you made the correct decision. My experience has been that if you let someone abuse you and walk over you (this could be drinking too much, passing out, abandoning you, whatever) then they will continue to push so they can get the best of both worlds: a loving partner and the freedom to do whatever they want to do.

I think if you are truly loved you know it; and if you are not loved you know it as well, but it hurts if you already feel worthless and unlovable.

I think we have to love ourselves and never look for validation outside of our own inner resources. My problem is that I drank to hide from the difficult work required to develop internal strength. I hope you feel better.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:04 AM
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Thank you everyone for your words and advice.

I agree that I need to work on validating myself, and stop seeking it from the outside. I think I am still going through the stages of grief and I am constantly wavering in and out of denial myself.

The years of manipulation has really gotten to me and scrambled my brain. I'm now aware that a simple message from him triggers me and sends me spiraling out of control. When I try to confront him I am met with more of the same.... deflection and projection. My need to get him to take accountability for his actions is going to kill me because while I know he will not, I can't seem to stop!

How were you able to let go? Seems I am not there yet... my anger and resentment have me hanging on, needing justice or at least equality. It's astounding what you put up with when you're in a relationship with a drinker... and then you have to just let it all go...
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:20 AM
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I think for me it was after he went to rehab and was out of the house for 9 months. Those 9 months were such a relief, a great weight had been lifted from me. But I took him back because we had kids together and he had been sober for 9 months. I never felt the same about him, but determined to stay with him for the kids and moved heaven and earth to make it work until the last kid was 18. I think my main problem with him, drinking or not, was the same as my mom's problem, no real remorse or repentance. Oh he would fake remorse so I wouldn't kick him out, but there was no genuine remorse. Once I realized that they just didn't care how they were hurting me, I was able to emotionally let go, and then physically let go (no contact). But there were years in between those two "letting gos". It is not an easy process and I went through Alanon and years of counseling. Good luck, take care of yourself.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:22 AM
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And to answer the main question in the subject line, I doubted my perceptions for YEARS. My XAH was a great gaslighter. Subtly twisting things around, he was genius at it. But again I think the light bulb was when I figured out he really didn't care about ME as a person. That allowed me to start letting go, no matter what reality was about drinking or anything else.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:30 AM
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The whole thing is difficult. I am dealing with an excellent gas lighter myself. I ended things with him about six weeks before he left me (he told me what I wanted to hear on Valentine's Day and we made up, I'm such a sucker) and managed to shift blame so well that I basically begged him to come back, completely forgetting that I wanted to end things in the first place!

The manipulation is no joke... it really messes with your mind. I know what you mean about no remorse. I got a, "I didn't mean to hurt you", after eight years and a heinous discard. Sometimes I think the booze takes over their soul...
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:56 AM
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Good way to describe it. When i told my mom how much one of her episodes had upset me she laughed and said she didn't remember it so it didn't bother her.
There is no empathy there at all, the addiction takes over and that's the only thing that matters to them. Even when my XAH was sober for a while he was the same person - he was just worse when he drank.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CodeJob View Post
Hello expanding,

I think there is a karpman drama triangle going on with your peer group/family.. you slowed down your drinking, and it sounds like you spoke up about some troubling behaviors of your ex. And everyone is helping him stay with the status quo. You changed your behavior and they are all working to keep the old system going.

The other game at play is probably denial.

http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html

So I actually think your perception is probably 100% accurate.
That article you linked is incredible! I'm printing it out and keeping it in my journal!
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:29 PM
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That is a fantastic article and having lived with and around addicts for years it really provides some insight into "loving the addiction". Especially interesting is the fact that they evolve (devolve?) to a clinical status of insanity. Makes so much sense. Sad, but true.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:44 PM
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Expanding and ajarlson......I frequently recommend that newbies read the articles by Floyd P. Garrett.....because I think they helped me understand more than any that I have ever read....
Sadly, I don't think many actually take my suggestion!!

I am so glad that you all read them and that they helped!

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Old 06-09-2016, 02:52 PM
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It really does! It explains why every time I tried to reason with him I became increasingly frustrated. Why we seemed to go in circles. Why it was always turned back on me. Why there was always SOME reason he had to drink, whether it was a mood, an event, or a person (me).

I had no idea addiction was so bad. It's a miracle people make it to recovery at all and explains why most never do and why it has to get so bad before help is sought. My love is not and never would have been enough. I couldn't fix him no matter hard I tried. I feel lucky that I experienced an event traumatic enough to snap me out of it
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:52 PM
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I think the explanation of how it slowly creeps in is helpful too. For those of us around it, we also get sucked in and when we look back we wonder how we ever let it get that bad.
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Old 06-09-2016, 05:13 PM
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Yes! And if you grew up around it nothing throws up major flags for a while...
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:25 PM
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You all want that link added to the stickies?

Mike
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:33 AM
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I think that would be a great idea. I tried for years to understand the logic of a drinker and nothing drove the point home more than that article.
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Old 06-10-2016, 09:40 AM
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I agree with Expanding. So many years of "how can he/she not care?" answered thoroughly in that article.
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:38 AM
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From another article on the same site as the above article. In recovery, an addict's persona is described:

"....the human, the existing individual with all of his values and aspirations, displaces the inhuman force of the addictive desire that had insidiously taken over the personality of the addict...."

Wow. And there you have it. Doubting perceptions? The addict you're dealing with isn't in his or her right mind, and not even in his or her right personality!

It's like invasion of the body-snatchers only the invader is drugs and/or alcohol.

This idea helps me bring compassion to some of the people from my past, and it also points to the reality of how pointless it is dealing with active addicts on anything resembling reciprocal rationality.
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