My Dad

Old 02-04-2016, 08:05 PM
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My Dad

I have written a few times about my alcoholic mother and I am slowly but surely coming to terms with not being in contact with her. It is not healthy for me to have a relationship with her. She doesn't bother to contact me so the feelings are mutual.

I also had a problem with alcohol and am almost 3 years sober. I had many scary moments in my 20s due to drinking but since my mom was also an alcoholic nothing was ever really done about my drinking. Sure my mom yelled at me but she would never throw out all of the alcohol in the house because 'I had to learn to be around it but not drink.' Even though I was the child and she was the adult. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this story.

Anyways, my dad never tried to get me help either. He was so afraid of crossing my mom's path that he never pushed for me to get help for fear of what my mom would say. And nobody could mention my mom's problem, just mine and make me feel worthless.

I recently had a conversation with my dad about my no longer wanting to be in my mom's life. He's all for it. She's a drunk, and toxic and I don't need her in my life. We spent two hours talking about her problem and he even said he wanted to move out to get away from her. As we were departing, my dad told me not to make a big of this conversation with my siblings because it would upset my mom if it got back to her. WTF?!

Has anyone gone no contact with their non-alcoholic parent simply because they are codependent on the alcoholic parent? I love my dad dearly and am guilty for even thinking that I wouldn't want him in my life. But going back and forth like that is also toxic. I want to be there for him as someone he can vent to as well as someone who knows what it is like to be an alcoholic. I just don't know if I can even handle that role. I am the daughter, although a grownup, I still shouldn't know those kinds of details about my parents relationship.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:18 PM
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Hello pattyj, and pleased to "meet" you

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... Even though I was the child and she was the adult. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this story. ...
No, you are not alone. I always felt I was the only adult in my family, even when I was 10 years old. After a few years in recovery and a couple of good therapists I realized that what was _really_ going on is that as a 10 year old I was the most mature person in the family.

That does _not_ mean I was an "early adult". It just means my parents were _so_ dysfunctional they were below the level of a 10 year old.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
...Anyways, my dad never tried to get me help either. ...
In my family it was my father that was the drinker. My mother never tried to get help for her, or for us kids. Later in life she got into pill addiction, but her "role" was very much the co-dependent.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... my dad told me not to make a big of this conversation with my siblings because it would upset my mom if it got back to her. WTF?! ...
From what you wrote my guess is that your dad has been in his "role" for a very long time. One of the symptoms of a "co-dependent" is that desperate need to _not_ change anything. That's a survival tactic, changes tend to be a handy excuse for alkies to blame for their drinking. A "codie" has enough trouble keeping it together as it is, the last thing they want is another excuse for the alkie to use.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... Has anyone gone no contact with their non-alcoholic parent simply because they are codependent on the alcoholic parent?...
I went no-contact because they were harmful to _me_. Not because of their relationship with each other.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I want to be there for him as someone he can vent to as well as someone who knows what it is like to be an alcoholic. ...
The usual way it works in recovery is that an alcoholic has a "sponsor", or a therapist, to vent to and know what it is like to be an alcoholic. A child is someone that can depend on the parent to be a source of support and direction, at _any_ age. It sounds to me like you are still in that "reversed" role.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I just don't know if I can even handle that role. ...
I can't imagine how you could. The whole point to recovery is to break out of the "roles" that keep us locked in a dysfunctional relationship.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I still shouldn't know those kinds of details about my parents relationship...
Of course not.

It seems to me like you have a really good understanding of what a healthy parent-child relationship _should_ be. Maybe you can look into what options you have besides the "parent role". At one extreme you could go completely no-contact. You could try a "partial contact" where you only deal with your dad when he is behaving in a healthy manner towards you. You could set time limits to when and for how long you will talk to him ( that is how I started my no-contact, worked good for me).

You could go thru a list of "roles" in dysfunctional families and choose one that is less harmful to you as a "stepping stone" towards long-term improvement. You could choose no role at all and just be a "neutral observer."

There's a lot of choices, it's just a matter of picking one that sounds like a good "fit" and trying it out to see how it works for you.

Have you gone thru the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum? There's a lot of good information in them. There is also a ton of books about recovery for us ACoA's, most of which are packed full of practical suggestions as to how, exactly, to break out of those old "roles". A good therapist can also be a help.

Mike
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:40 AM
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Pattyj, what kind of relationship do you want with your father?

Do you feel comfortable discussing his relationship with his wife with him?

How much do you want to hear about your mother from him? None, a little, what?

When you can decide what it is that you want, you can set boundaries to protect it.

If you no longer wish to discuss your mother, you can act on that, "Dad, I love you, but I'm no longer discussing my mother with you. How are YOU doing?" - You can provide suggestions, but try not to take responsibility for his happiness. That's his problem. For example, has he gone to counseling? To Al-Anon?

Again, it's much healthier for you to focus on yourself and what YOU need to do for YOU. Have YOU attended Al-Anon? Sought out counseling? If you've gone no-contact with an alcoholic parent, both may be helpful for you.

As we were departing, my dad told me not to make a big of this conversation with my siblings because it would upset my mom if it got back to her. WTF?!
If he doesn't have recovery, he might not have the best language to communicate that he would like your conversation to be confidential. I think that's a reasonable request. He feels safe with you, but has concerns that your siblings would share the information with your mother. Then, he would experience consequences? from your mother.

Again, not your problem. His. He would need a lot of work to feel comfortable directly confronting his wife. Not to control her, but to express his feelings as they truly are; Right now, it sounds like he's not ready (regardless, triangulation would be a poor flow of information to your mother - from you to sibling back to your dad - that's a lot of grapevine to pass through - it's better that it came DIRECTLY from him).

It makes sense for you to NOT pass on the information since you would be participating in triangulation.

Just my two cents. I can't speak for your father - I'm guessing on what he's feeling here.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:54 PM
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Desert eyes - thank you so much for breaking it down to me. I think I definitely need to set boundaries with my dad because like you said this is his problem not mine. It's hard to see that I was more of an adult then they were, especially with my drinking habits at a young age, but I really was never taught anything else. If anyone was drinking and acting the way my mom does, they would not be in my dad's life. But since he is codependent on her, he's still with her.

My dad is from 'the old country' meaning that he doesn't believe in getting 'help' himself. He knows all about the treatment I've been to and meetings and therapy and has mentioned that he should go himself. But just like he's threatened to leave my mom many times, he hasn't actually done it.

I am in therapy and have gone to Al-Anon. I definitely need to go more. I didn't like Al-Anon because a lot of the members had children or spouses with issues and having a parent with a problem is completely different. But I will try again. And I will check out the stickies and books.

The only reason I wanted to tell my sister about my conversation with my dad was because some of it was about her. My sister decided that my parents couldn't have the kids overnight anymore due to my mom's drinking. My sister never actually told them that, just made excuses about why they couldn't spend the night. So I told my dad, we were having a heart to heart conversation. He completely agreed that the kids shouldn't spend the night. I think next time I just need to keep my mouth shut and force my sister to be a big girl and take care of it herself.

And I will look at the roles of a dysfunctional family because the parent role is not working for me anymore.

I think I'm so worried that my parents and family are going to think bad of me for setting boundaries and staying away from my mom. But if it's healthy for me to do so, then I have to.
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I didn't like Al-Anon because a lot of the members had children or spouses with issues and having a parent with a problem is completely different. ...
Yes, I know what you mean, I had that problem too. Al-anon meetings tend to specialize quite a bit. If you look at their website you will find meetings that are focused on parents of alkies, others just for men, others for teens, and so on. There are some meetings focused on ACoA issues, which I have found to be very useful for me.

The difficulty is when a meeting specializes, but does _not_ list that specialization in the directories. I am going to a meet right now that says "step study" in the directory, but _everybody_ there is an ACoA and we talk about ACoA issues. You _really_ have to shop around the al-anon meets to see what they are _really_ focused on.

Another option is the program of ACoA itself. There's a lot less meetings of those than al-anon, so if you are not in a large city there may not be any of those at all. However, if you look in the ACoA website there are a lot of telephone and on-line meetings. Not as good as face to face, but still good.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I think next time I just need to keep my mouth shut and force my sister to be a big girl and take care of it herself....
Awesome. That sounds to me like a "boundary" that says you will no longer take on the role of "peace-maker" for that particular situation.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
... I think I'm so worried that my parents and family are going to think bad of me for setting boundaries...
Ok. If you are worried that they may think that way the usual suggestion in recovery is to _plan_ for it. Suppose somebody in your family _does_ think bad, what would you do? Would you share it with somebody, like your therapist? Would you ignore it? Would you suggest they go to a meeting themselves? Hand them a book on alcohplism?

The slogan is "Hope for the best, plan for the worst". The objective is to _not_ be caught unprepared when something bad happens. I don't know about you, but most ACoA's are _really good_ planners.

Originally Posted by pattyj View Post
...But if it's healthy for me to do so, then I have to. ...
Totally. Sounds to me like you are well into your recovery. I thinks that's awesome, you've got half this battle already won.

Oh yes, and you are most welcome to keep posting here as much as you want. That's what SR is for.

Mike
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