WMJ1012

Hi all

I've been doing a lot more work on recovery from narcissistic abuse. I've discovered some things I want to share and I invite comments/experience from you, of course.

I felt some pity and compassion for these types when I learned that the N tries desperately to amputate parts of himself/herself he hates, and project them onto other people. These are his/her unhealed wounds. He/she really believes YOU are the problem. He/she truly "sees" in you what he/she loathes about himself. Sometimes we do have the same thing they do so it's real important to be ourselves and just know our worth, by having quiet time with God and a daily action action plan to be good to ourselves and get and stay abstinent from our addictions.

When criticized or smeared by the N it's sooooo important that we not react. This takes an enormous amount of courage. Otherwise we are feeding right into it, lowering ourselves to the standards of the N. We do not have to defend who we are. This takes a lifetime's work (a day at a time) on our Fears, and we must be good to ourselves in the right way. We must trust God. If we keep our eyes on our own paper and don't run either, God will win. If you've not been able to do that in the past, you will be given more opportunities until you can do it well. Let the past sleep in God's arms, accept it, and work on today.

And I can only do one day - today.

The most important: there is no reason to take personally what the N says or does. His/her defects ARE NOT OURS to carry. And just like we are not his/her problem, they aren't OURS. Why would you internalize what a sick person says/does? I don't care if he's wearing a 3-piece business suit and is wealthy or she is a "well-thought of person"...you know what you see and experience, and detaching maturely from what is being done to you makes you a power of example, not an example of power. That is a very attractive quality.

Just know who you are (and not in an egotistical way). Be your sweet kind self. Go about the business of your own life - and pray sincerely, maturely and without guilt, that these people are brought to God.

Have a great day, you!

MikeH

Thank you for this post. It is soooo truthful. My narcissistic mother was this way, even 15 years into Alzheimer's. I finally broke of all contact with her about 5 years ago after her tirade about: "You never did do what we wanted you to do." [Translated: my mother forced me to go into math, and my father, when he wasn't being my mother's "stool pigeon" apparently wanted me to be a salesman.] They never did accept the fact, or congratulate me, for ending up a CPA with a large CPA firm. I only wish I had read something like this a long, long time ago. Again, Thanks!

BTW, my therapist said she was a narcissist in the 3rd or 4th session I had with him 10 years ago. I keep forgetting to ask him how he figured it out so fast...

WMJ1012

MikeH
You're welcome.

And congratulations on doing so well in your career. It must have taken a lot of effort.

Spacegoat

Guy's. They F' us up really bad don't they!? I appreciate your post too WMJ1012. What I was going to say the other day is what about when surrounded by them?

I don't want to be that guy where 'everyone is a narc' but that's really how I feel. And Mike, thanks for the post in my thread but I'm clocking out early now. Later!

LiveInPeace

I've learned the most important thing when dealing with a narcissistic parent/sibling is to not allow them to push my buttons. I have my own life and my identity. I no longer do or say things to make them happy. And I don't apologize for the life and choices I chose to make. It took a very long time to learn this all. Thank God for AA, because it was there that I learned that some people are spiritually sick, and that God loves me unconditionally for who I am.

greens

Thanks for posting this . I dont know why but I have been thinking about my ex these past 2 days - in a good way. How I stood up to them and didn't take on their drama and how I cut off the relationship must faster and cleaner then I did in the past.

WMJ1012

Thanks all.

This was a bit of a strange writing for me. Bad day I guess?

A few days of strong AA meetings got me back into looking at me instead of others...I guess others are "sick like me."

Others react from their own experiences in life like I can.

I am actually not a proponent of titles as I'm not supposed to be diagnosing anyone but myself.

It's true that when people have different symptoms than me I want to not "pick up the ball." I pause, bring God into the picture, and see their fear through God's eyes. Then I remember the fear prayer and I don't have to react.

Calm, strong sanity <<<< comes from God

Refiner

My sister is a N. When I finally discovered that she actually had NPD, it was a RELIEF! It wasn't ME! I wasn't the crazy one who just couldn't understand how someone could be so mean with no compassion and absolutely NO SOUL. I actually have PTSD from growing up with "that". Parents covered for her (enabled their Princess). After learning that my reaction was her "supply", it was actually quite fun to mess with her head LOL! She eventually got bored and left me alone and I eventually was able to go from low contact to NO contact. I'm missing out on a relationship with my nephew, but for me, it's worth it. That's how bad it was.

Kallioya

Refiner... You are so correct in everything you say. Thanks for the post.

ajarlson

Yeah my brother is narcissistic too but he certainly learned it from our AM. He was the golden child.

Spacegoat

As the guy below puts it "I estimate I only knew about 10% of the abuse that was taking place, but the little that I knew about absolutely devasted me"

It all started (in recent years and what I became aware of because I was the target of it) because I asked her straight from my heart and in the spirit of openness if she would level with me about the things I have witnessed/heard/and been subjected to at home over all the years. The secrecy. The affairs. The fraud. The lies. The theft. The complete emotional bankruptcy and so on and so forth, it was a constant. I don't know why I asked her because I witnessed all of it. I wanted to put it all behind us and move on from it suppose as it had already destroyed my wellbeing and any semblance of a relationship with her (from day dot, as far back as I can remember). Well, she denied everything point blank and to my face, with me begging for the truth in the spirit of forgiveness and explaining to her how important it was to me and that I was not going to judge her for being honest.. That was upsetting. What I wasn't prepared for though was that she would go on an assault launching a full on campaign of smear tactics and gaslighting towards me because of it. I heard her telling tainted/unture stories to me siblings about me to turn them against me. I heard her telling people that I have been brainwashed by my father and aunty about the past now, that I have turned out like them and unfortunately there is no hope for me, that nobody can listen to anything I say and that I am crazy basically. Because I asked her for some validation and the truth about everything I have experienced all my life. Like I said, it was completely devastating. She set out to destroy the little that was left of my life and succeeded in doing so. With pleasure and and with joy. It's nowhere near within the realm of forgiveness if you must know, let alone reconciliation. She knew exactly what she was doing and enjoyed every minute of it. She was under no duress (I was though) it was a deliberate, willful and successful campaign that she undertook to destroy me because I had some questions about our past that she doesn't didn't anyone else to hear. Arriving at those questions even had already been a lifetime of grief and suffering for me.



What I don't understand is how these individuals can get away with all of this. It is nothing short of heinous, nothing has shocked me more and I've been through a lot of things. She has destroyed numerous lives, every one in the family and maybe several more besides. And she will continue to do so. How do they get away with it? Apprantly there is no recourse for these people. They are a law unto themselves based on the fact they are so dangerous? It is F'd up. She deserves nothing less than a worse hell that she has willfully and wantonly created for me and anyone that she could lay victim to. Her own children. She has destroyed everything for us. And yet off she walks into the sunset it looks like. The best revenge they say is to live well, however I am clearly failing in that regard.

LiveInPeace

I love this, thank you!

seasaw

I definitely needed to hear these shares this week everyone everyone, thank you.

DoubleDragons

Thank you. I really needed this. As being mostly the "golden child" of narcissistic parents, I find myself getting sucked into their cycle. My mom is also an alcoholic and lately she has kept her ugly narcissistic, alcoholic side well-hidden from me, so that she can get what she wants from me. I related so much to the video in the fact that we are so desperate sometimes to feel the love that we should have received that we trick ourselves into believing that with age and mellowing, we will get it from them, but the bottom line is that they just aren't capable of it. Wall of superficial nice is the only way to go, if you keep them in your life.

emilynghiem

From experience I find the most Narcissistic people to be my most diametric nemesis. it is like matter meeting anti-matter or Christ confronting the anti-christ, where we both end up yelling and projecting our way onto the other person in a hopeless clash of wills.

I am so empathetic i do the opposite, and take on the problems of other people, try to solve it like a Rubik's cube and hand the answers back when I am done figuring it out. Trouble is I stress myself out taking on this in the meantime, and too many times people want to keep me carrying their debts and burdens for them instead of agreeing to take back responsibility that I was only helping them with temporarily.

So I totally clash with the selfish types who overload my space.
I can work with people who are truly selfless and deserve the support they won't abuse.

But people who already project and dump to the max completely sicken me and I can't be around that if I can't enforce boundaries and keep their toxic venting out of my space. I end up yelling at them which isn't how I normally want to interact.

If I can learn to deal with my exact opposite, I guess that is an exercise in reinforcing boundaries and sticking with AGREED conditions. I am tired of yelling and stressing out when these boundaries are crossed.

The two friends I knew who never imposed on me but respected my bounds without me having to are both gone. One knew how to deal with boundaries, and I was still learning from her. The other was so sensitive, that when she got overloaded by taking on too much herself, she ended up taking her own life during an attack, some reaction with medication she was on that sent her out of her mind into a crisis that killed her.

I am still learning how to communicate and enforce mutual bounds. I believe in consensus and reaching agreement by free choice NOT by coercion. But in a culture that rewards bullies and whoever yells the loudest or sues with the most powerful lawyers, it becomes a battle of wills and I am not into that game. I believe in reaching agreement and including everyone's will/consent, beliefs and interests equally.

The hardest time I have is dealing with bullies who think the only way to defend is to bulldoze over the opposition, so I tend to get run over that way.

I believe consensus-building will win in the end.

I don't enjoy bullying back the bullies who seek to dominate and destroy the process for everyone else. I'd rather enlist the aid of other people who play the bully better, and let them deal with each other.

I don't do very well having to confront the strong-willed types who only project and beat people down to get their way. Those types wear me out. I don't want to become like them, to beat them at their own game, so I prefer to delegate the honors to people who play that role better.
Not for me! Can't stand turning into the "Incredible Hulk" and blowing up into some raging maniac that is the opposite of how I normally am.

EveningRose

My father was the one who asked me why I stay away. But when I listed a number of specific incidents, he, too, denied it point blank. Shook his head as if in grief at my mental instability, and said, "None of that ever happened."

I thought at the time, if I were really crazy enough to be making up such things, that good parents had never done, there would be some alarm, some concern for my mental instability. But he just shook he head and said, "None of that ever happened."

And here, too, on the stories--yes, people at church have told me some of what gets said behind my back. My own son has told me he's sure I think those things happened....

I realized several years ago that my mother has likely been telling my entire extended family for 40 years or more that I'm a liar--since I was a child. I think because I spoke up about what AF was up to. Easier to call me a liar. So after years of hearing this about me, I've finally understood all those years when I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong that I couldn't seem to have close relationships with my relatives the way my sister could. Thanks, mom.

EveningRose

Oh, yes! Like whoever wrote this was watching my life. My mother is the codependent, but she fits the narcissist traits well. Always the victim, even as her words and actions were emotionally destroying me to the point I wanted to kill myself. Always the victim--and if I dared say, "You're hurting me," it would have been even worse, as she went full steam ahead with the tears and the stifled sobs and the look of martyrdom that she can't please anyone.

Slander and gossip--yep, check on that one, too.

Geewhizz

Wow! I didn't know a group like this existed....I too was the golden child of a NAF, until I fell out of favour and didn't play my part well enough. My codependent mother also always the victim enmeshed with my brother.
Thankyou all for your posts on this, what an eye opener. I send Love and hope you all have autonomy and freedom now xx

Eauchiche

This entire thread is a revelation! Thanks so much.
The real shame here, is those of us from these situations have to assess and diagnose the N's in our life, often without education in mental health. And, pinning such a diagnosis on someone can be as difficult as an alcoholism diagnosis.
For me, this topic is another piece of the puzzle; answers to why my family of origin was the way it was, and why I have been attracted to similar situations including some career choices.
MANY thanks!!!!

thotful

I used to fret and worry about the smear campaign of my estranged sibling. I cut off contact because he refused to settle his differences with my wife. I have heard things from him about other FOO members when we were close that I feel disgusted about inside: mom is lazy and the only reason us "boys" (excluding our sister I guess) are successful is because of our dad (the person with the alcoholism-hmmm...), my sister is lazy and worthless, this brother is a big geek/dork and an airhead that has no common sense, etc. Because of that, I saw no reason WHATSOEVER that he wouldn't smear campaign me when we had/have our issues.

What I've realized is that certain people are completely resistant to the BS. A narcissist, or an alcoholic spewing nonsense, or whatever can never tell a person with a strong sense of self what to believe about another human being. They'll confirm what was said by THEIR OWN interaction. Some people are sucked into the vortex of illusion that comes from an N or from gossip in general. They don't do fact-checking. They let someone else tell them what to think of another person. They'll shun that person without ever stopping for a second to say, "wait...was that even true?"

Example - for years, I was told what a horrible person my sister's partner was - that he was a drug-dealer. that he hangs out with really creepy people. that the children aren't safe around him. I believed the hype for a long time. Until I had recovery. Something changed within me and I realized. I didn't know him AT ALL. Invited him to lunch, had a great time and realized, MUCH if not ALL that I heard about him was probably BULLSH**. Yes, some may have been true, but who am I to judge?

Anyways. My sibling has no control over my life. He has no control over my relationships with other people. THEY are the ones with the control of their own choices. Some will be sucked into gossip and treat me differently - in which case, why would they be a good friend to keep at ALL? For others, they'll just ignore the bs anyways. Perhaps this is what scared me the most - that my sibling could destroy my life - that he could take "CONTROL" over everything I held dear. The truth is, he doesn't have that kind of power. Lies will work with some people, but not all. Maybe, in the end, he's doing me a favor and weeding out the bad apples...so to speak.

LOL

with the empty spaces in my life (a few siblings are estranged from me, close friend that hangs with them all the time - haven't heard from him in a while), I simply filled it with something better. I have a completely new set of people I spend my time with - and I'm happy with it.