DoubleDragons

So, I went no contact with my parents about two weeks ago. The straw the broke the camel's back was the fact that my mom was on a three day bender during a time period that my son's friend had committed suicide and she was not available emotionally at all. In fact, she added to the turmoil by drunkenly asking my sister (who had been a rebellious teenager) why she never committed suicide, adding all sorts of extended family drama.

So yesterday, she texts me saying that she was sorry for she and my father's "slip" (my father is King Enabler, but I do not believe that he is an alcoholic) and that they were handling their issues privately. She then said that she loved me and hoped to hear from me. Last night, I texted back that I was not ready to talk with her and that I was still sorting out my feelings and boundaries.

I am so jumbled with all of this, having never tried NC before. Could you give me objective feedback on all of this?

happybeingme

I am not sure if there is much objectiveness in going no contact. Mine own decision was made during an extremely emotional moment but as months passed I was able to look at things more objectively. Though my heart is still sore I know there is no way to have a normal or decent relationship with either of my parents. All that is there is pain, sadness, and disappointment

ajarlson

Thanks happy, I was trying to think how to respond and objectivity is probably not something I could provide. The more time passes without contact, the more peace I find, the less anxiety I feel and the more I am comfortable with my decision. Good luck to you.

happybeingme

Good luck to you as well.

Kialua

I never went full no contact with my alcoholic dad and mom because of my long-time successful emotional disconnect. I fully see the value of NC though. I did have to do that with my sister for many years before she was diagnosed and hospitalized for paranoid schizophrenia and we thought she was an alcoholic who caused chaos. NC with my sister was the only way I could have any sanity and peace. Of course there was a lot of guilt as well. But my parents were feeding the lie of her being an alcoholic and not being a good person. I couldn't shield myself constantly from her and there was intermittent chaos because I took care of her kids.

I felt that at least intermittent chaos was better than constant chaos.

happybeingme

In the end there is no right or wrong of going no contact. It is also something that you can change your mind about.

For me it is the only way I can protect my emotional and mental health. My mom is extremely narcissistic. She gaslight, lies, is passive aggressive. She views people as mere objects often times when talking about them she doesn't even say their name. Instead they are referred to as my daughter, your sister, etc .

Follow your heart but don't ignore your gut. Whatever you decide

NWGRITS

My NC stemmed from an incident involving my own children, where AM was supposed to be caring for them but was so snockered she didn't know what was going on until the next day - in the psych ward. It was easy for me, going NC. Stayed that way for almost three years, then talked to her in early April. It was ok until she was obviously under the influence of something (a drug is a drug is a drug) on the phone one day and I told her I couldn't do it anymore. She's left several remorseful messages that I'm mulling over. I don't feel overly pressured to call her or even send a message, so I'm not stressing it. We've had a lot of family excitement (91yo grandmother had complications after having a pacemaker implanted), so relations with AM have been on the back burner. Might talk to her again, might not. But again, that's just personal preference, and nothing is permanent either way. Every bit of the last three years has been One Day at a Time. That's all we have, really.

thotful

After going to counseling for a while, my counselor started talking about boundaries. I had NO clue as to what he was talking about. I had to learn about these things. Even now, I am still struggling on understanding what boundaries are all about.

It was like I had no boundaries whatsoever before - so much so that my brother's behavior just finally went wayy too far eventually (insulting my marriage, arguing all the issues happened once I married my wife). I had never done boundaries, didn't know what they were, but I knew that I HAD HAD ENOUGH. So I cut him off.

In hindsight, I wish I had a more clear understanding of boundaries. Perhaps then, I wouldn't have gotten myself so deep in the mire of permitting his manipulative bossy behavior. I could have been setting boundaries from the get-go in small doses or on minor things.

I've heard that you can make no contact periods. Like you tell someone you don't like how they're speaking to you. If they keep doing it, you say something like 'If this behavior continues, I will need to consider our relationship". And then when it keeps going, you say quite clearly to the person that you will be "no contact" and for a set period of time and you stick to it - no phone calls, no e-mails, etc. Maybe that's for a day or a week. If the behavior happens again, the NC gets extended in the next go around. You just consistently ratchet up the consequences.

I do wonder if I had more skill in boundaries much earlier, that I would have my two siblings in my life? Not sure though...Maybe it would have occurred slower...or just in another way. I can't really know how everything would have played out for sure.

I guess I search my heart for what I'm feeling and thinking and try to figure out the decision I want to make (not what decision they want to make). I take it day by day.

At this moment, today, my two siblings have not reached out (as I told them they could) to reconcile their differences with myself and my wife. It breaks my heart, but it is what it is. I can have a very uncomfortable relationship with them that can risk my sobriety, risk my emotional health, risk my marriage, I tolerate being mistreated, being bottom of a totem-pole, being judged, etc. Or, I can not have any relationship at all. I don't like either choice, but today, it seems like no relationship at all is better than an abusive one.

I've also noticed that when there's a gaping hole where my siblings and FOO (who enable their abusive behavior) used to reside...well, I just have to fill it. With all of my recovery I believe I've been working on filling that void with something far more supportive, loving, respectful, accepting, etc. I have friends and loved ones that lift my spirit up instead of pull it down. Where would I be if I had held on to a relationship that was drowning me? Where would I be now?

It's like I've been breathing air, when I used to breathe smoke.

One day at a time.

Maybe someday my two siblings and I can work things out. But, you never know...other siblings might come along with them and I could walk away from my entire set of siblings and my parents. I guess I'm powerless over that. I only decide what kinds of relationships I want. It's very possible that all of my FOO won't be able to be a part of my new life (unwilling, unable, etc).

All I know for sure, is taking care of myself is working. And I'm going to keep doing it.

Croissant

Hey DD....I have done no contact with both parents (one alcoholic, one ACOA personality disordered) at different times in my life.

My alcoholic Mother passed away during a no contact time, and I do not have any regrets. Currently, I have no contact with my non-alcoholic, but very manipulative Father, and life feels peaceful. Even though he lives a long way away, he still has the abilty to wreak havoc on my life, and I'm sick of the endless "oh, I was only joking" excuse to cover every hurtful comment he makes.

Bottom line. If it feels right (albeit it hurts that you have to), then go with it. Boundaries are yours to own - because they are yours!

FeelingGreat

Hi DD, Thotful makes a good point, that establishing effective boundaries can prevent the need for no contact. I've seen this in effect with my DIL and her mother. The mother has gone way too far in several areas, and if DIL had had the tools to deal with her behaviour she might not have had to go NC. Over time DIL has learned to stop bad behaviour before it has progressed too far and the need for NC has decreased. But it might also have given the mother a fright so who knows?
It depends on whether you're willing to enforce boundaries that will keep you and your family away from her when she's drinking or behaving badly. If you can make it clear to her that you won't have any interaction with her then, would that allow you to enjoy the times when she's ok? Or is that not an option?

NWGRITS

When you grow up without boundaries, you can't possibly know what they are or understand them. (Be easy on yourself, thotful. Btw - You have so much growth happening here lately. How wonderful!) When we know better, we do better. I offer my perspective as an ACoA to other members on the boards to help jumpstart that knowing better part, so they don't end up like those of us looking back and going, "if only I'd known..." None of this is easy.

ajarlson

I also regret not knowing how to establish boundaries earlier. I think if I had, I would have been able to maintain some sort of relationship with my mom. By the time I started really being able to enforce them, I had just had enough and went NC. As time goes by though, I feel more and more at peace over the NC. I don't want to be having to enforce boundaries to have a relationship with her, it's exhausting and not fair to me to have to deal with that - not to mention her refusal to admit anything she ever did wrong. NC has been a life saver for my sanity. Good luck to you.

happybeingme

Sometimes though boundaries do nothing. They are seen as a challenge. When I started trying to put boundaries in place my mother would just plow right through them. I eventually noticed she actually became gleeful as she did it. Then again my mom is mentally ill so there is no way to safely interact with her

ajarlson

I go back and forth in my mind about whether it would have helped or not. So I have to be at peace with the way things are now. Easier said than done sometimes though

thotful

The other day, my counselor said, "your brother and his wife DON'T have the right to accept or not accept your wife."

Intriguing thought.

I stated that it was fascinating that in my current relationships, I don't even have to ask for respect. I don't need to ask for acceptance. I don't feel like I'm constantly on guard...on the defense. I have friendships that feel like something that is trying to lift me up.

For example, I am now in a steel pan band. I love it!!! I only started learning as a beginner in Fall of 2014. I passed 10 songs to get into the band. I know about 20 so far. They have been so nice to me that it has felt...unfamiliar. For our 1st gig, they changed the set list to have almost all of the songs I know in the set list. My wife commented that it was strange that they would do that. I said that it was so unfamiliar to me...that I felt...ugh, I hate to admit it. That I didn't deserve it. Boy does it suck to feel like I don't deserve kindness.
Anyways, with this steel pan band, I'm accepted. PERIOD. I'm celebrated (they had a cake for me after being accepted into the band due to passing 10 songs). I'm cherished (they make comments a lot about how they're excited that I'm there). the list goes on.

Do I have to ask for any of my bare minimum standards? NOPE. It's there. The people honor me regardless of my boundaries.

So, perhaps my boundary skills have nothing to do with the estrangement from my two siblings. Maybe me saying that if my skills were better, the relationship would be OK...is me taking on some guilt and responsibility again? ugh...Perhaps the relationship not working out has NOTHING to do with me and there's nothing I can do to fix it. My two siblings are the ones who need to fix it. And I have next to zero hope that they will change their abusive behavior. So...I leave them to whatever they're going to do and spend more time with people who accept me WITHOUT question (I don't even have to ask).

I return to working my program.

I am wishing you the best in figuring out what decisions you will make, DD! This is far from easy, that's for sure.

DoubleDragons

Wow, I appreciate so much everyone's feedback. Thank you! I have come to terms that I am going to have to try limited contact with my parents before I can go fully NC. Although, I have to admit it is such a relief to not have them involved in my every day life. I have not spoken on the phone to my mom or to my dad in about 3+ weeks. I have exchanged a couple of texts and I did send her a mother's day gift. They were visiting my sister for Mother's Day and showed up to her house late and drunk. They didn't get drunk the rest of the trip, but drank nightly. I am getting closer and closer to accepting that they will never change, so I have to decide how much involvement works for me emotionally, etc.

Again, I thank you all so much for caring.

newbie93

Double Dragons - I'm sorry to hear about what you've been going through. It's never an easy decision and it's different for everyone. I went NC with my parents for almost a year after finding out my mom had been hiding a pill addiction for over 30 years. All of the shock, turmoil, and drama involved with all of it (my dad is a major enabler) was just too much and I needed a break We only lived 10 minutes away from them at the time, which made it even more difficult. Just before we were transferred over 1000 miles away due to work, I saw them one last time. Although my mom said she was sober, I could tell nothing really had changed, even if she was sober. The same looks, snide comments, and pouting if she didn't get her way was all still there. Yet, after moving, I still felt torn about how to handle the relationship. It's been almost another year now and I feel tentatively comfortable in a LC relationship with them. I sent my mom a card for Mother's Day, but it was more of a "Have A Day" card. My sister had a baby recently and had a tough time with her recovery which necessitated a few phone calls back and forth. The first one, my mom was great and I thought "Oh wow - maybe she's changed". Silly me. The next call was more of the way she's always been and it all came rushing back. I don't miss her and I don't feel guilty about it anymore. But, if I have to have a conversation with her about something, I feel like I can do it without it turning into some big huge dramatic ordeal. Is that called acceptance? I don't know, but I have peace now that I haven't had in a LONG time. I credit this board, LOTS of therapy, and my husband for getting me to that place. It will happen for you too, but it just takes time to find your own way. All the best to you....

Stung

I find it difficult to look at it objectively and I agree that having effective boundaries does negate the necessity of no contact for those who can maintain strong boundaries. I am very limited contact - only text. The reason being is that my mom's text messages give me anxiety. Anytime I get a text from her I immediately go into flight or fight mode, something I never noticed until I started working on myself in therapy.

I cannot maintain boundaries that are strong enough with my mom, at least not right now. She's extremely manipulative and narcissistic. So to that end, I wonder what good does having a relationship with her do for me? (I feel like I'm SUPPOSED to have a relationship with my mom, so it's obligation.) I know that her presence in my life definitely makes me anxious and because my mom tells me that I'm the source of so many of her difficulties in life I begin to actually believe that I'm an inherently bad person when I'm around her or communicate with her.

For me personally, no contact is literally better for my health and stress levels. When she tries to rile me up with text messages I just block her from my phone entirely. My sanity is worth it.

seasaw

At first, I went NC because my relationship with my mother was literally destroying my life. We were completely enmeshed; with her narcissistic/alcoholic/addict/health issue combo platter, she felt totally free to let me feel responsible for whether she lived or died, bathed or didn't bathe, ate or didn't eat. And I was so completely topsy turvy, I took on that responsibility until it became critical.

NC was the only way I could be; it still is, but for different reasons (it was an acute matter of survival before; now it's more a complex issue of not being healthy enough myself to be around someone as unhealthy as she is without endangering myself, even in small doses). Not only is it the only way I can be, I find it's the way I WANT it to be, and I find that I don't have to feel guilty about that. If I'm being really honest with myself about what my choices are, this is what I choose. I'd rather tell the truth and invest my energy in myself and those who love and support me than pour energy into someone who is... well, toxic as sh*t.

We are not beholden to our parents.

ajarlson

Seasaw - WOW I could have written that. Thanks for being so articulate and putting words to your feelings - it helps to understand my own. Amazing.