thotful

I have many memories of 1 estranged sibling and horrible things he would say to me when we would have a RARE argument (my people-pleasing halted many arguments).

He once said to me, "no one will marry you", "no one will marry you but a foreign girl"

I wish I knew what it was like to have a healthy sibling relationship. In that case, I could know if the behavior above is normal. My estranged sibling never apologized to me for saying the above.

Do healthy people say nasty things like that to one another in the heat of an argument, and then not speak of it again. Or...is this really the tell-tale communication of unhealthy people?

More than anything, I want to figure out what's healthy and what's not - and GRAVITATE towards healthy and AWAY from unhealthy. I'm tired of hearing horrible cr**/nonsense like the above. I want better for myself. I guess I'll be going to Al-Anon, AA, and counseling...maybe forever. Like going to the gym. It will be a weekly routine.

Thoughts on what healthy relations between family are like. I feel like I'm shafted. Like "thotful" gets the really crappy family relations and it sucks. Sometimes I feel like "why me?" what the hell did I do to have supposed loved ones to be so nasty to me. And to make matters worse, when I complain about it, their responses are to ignore, to deny, to add more abuse on top, etc.

ugh

OGK

I can relate to what you describe here. For me, the "why me, I don't deserve this" really paralyzed my daily life and, living, for that matter. I found that THIS feeling was the by-product of always feeling "Less Than". In order for me to start to move past these feelings, I stopped saying "why me" and began to change it to, "Why DOES IT affect me"? In saying that instead, I found it much more productive to identify and correct MY unhealthy traits and spend the much more enlightening energy on my recovery.

Your siblings may never apologize and they may never be the FOO you fanticize about but one thing I know for sure in my case, these are the kind of results I can not change and certainly the ones I practice daily in staying out of. As far as continuously going to AA, Alonon or therapy for the rest of your life? I personally don't take that as a negative in my book, especially if it allows me to keep growing and learning. Just because their blood, doesn't mean they get to rent space in my head��

Good luck, keep working it out and don't let the introspection blow you off the path.
OGK

biminiblue

I think when I don't look at myself as a victim, things go much better for me.

At some point I realized that people say dumb stuff because they don't know any better. I could either let it fester and spend a lot of time saying, "WHY!" or I could accept that people say dumb things. Me included.

Have you never said anything to anyone ever that caused them some discomfort?

I think doing the 12 Steps would really help you. This dilemma takes up way too much space in your head.

happybeingme

My opinion. If it feels unhealthy it probably is. I have to younger sisters. One of whom I treated terribly when we were kids. At the time I didn't realize I resented her for behaving like a kid. I wanted her to step up and be like me. Taking care of our mother's emotional needs, blah, blah. But, in recovery I apologized and am making a living amends.

Unless your siblings are in recovery as well chances are a normal, healthy relationship is not possible. As far as why you? All I can say is why me? The only answer I have found is why not.

advbike

People just do stuff, man. We all have egos, and if our higher power isn't running the show, our ego is. The ego loves to compare, criticize, complain, feel hurt, and generally cause problems. It specifically loves to find ways to distance us from others, which appears to be working in your case.

I suggest you read "A New Earth" by Ekhart Tolle, or "Awareness" by Anthony DeMello.

Kialua

I have no idea what normal is for siblings and can understand your dilemma. Being raised in an abusive alcoholic home I know that I said and did a few terrible things to my younger sister. I wish I hadn't but I did. Being a child in a crazy home, crazy things happen and sometimes our bad behaviors follow us into adulthood unless we have worked on them. I suspect this may be the case with your brothers statement.

DesertEyes

Oh wow, I had those exact same words thrown at me.

Many years later I had the "last laugh". I went to meetings of ACoA, went to therapy, got my head fixed, my emotions settled down. I met a lovely foreign girl, fell in love, got married and had a _wonderful_ life.

oh, I live in the USA, where _everybody_ is a foreigner. Only the native American Indians are non-foreigners. So to that relative who once said that to me I pointed out that my "foreign" wife was Swedish and I am Irish.

I have my own way of figuring that out. If the behavior is from a dysfunctional person it is dysfunctional behavior. Squirrels act like squirrels because they have nuts for brains. All of my family are squirrels, so I don't have to try and figure out if it's normal or not. It is _always_ nuts.

Works for me, but I don't go forever. I have done it in spurts, go for a few years, then back off, take a few years off, go back for a tune up.

The way I figured it out is that these crazy people I had for a "biological family" were _not_ being nasty to me. They are like squirrels, they chitter and jabber and throw nut shells around all the time, but it does _not_ matter if I am standing under the tree or standing somewhere else. Squirrels are crazy all by themselves, whether I am present or not. If I walk away they are still crazy, _nothing_ changes.

They are not being nasty _to_ you. They are just nasty by default. You just happen to be standing under the nut tree.

I gave up on that. My "bio" family never responded in a human way to anything that was said to them by _anybody_. When I stopped complaining they kept right on doing what they had always done, they never even noticed I had stopped complaining.

I think a little bit of their insanity was starting to rub off on me. I was repeating the same behavior ( trying to get them to change ) over and over and over expecting different results ( for them to actually change ). No wonder I ended up needing a shrink, I _was_ slowly becoming like them.

No more squirrels for me. I've been "no contact" for a long time and loving every minute of it.

Mike

thotful

Awesome thoughts! thanks!

yeah, today a co-worker told me that my sis-in-law was being really crabby with her. Then I said, "that's make me feel better - that her behavior isn't personal - she does it to everyone" lol

I'll just need to hang with healthy people. In situations where I walk away feeling more clear and more comfortable and happy I went. For example, my steel pan band I'm close to joining (just started in the fall and have been learning a lot). I played two songs with the band in a concert and it was awesome. There was a pot-luck afterwards and everyone was super nice. No gossip. No nasty comments about other people's choices. Just a lot of kindness for both me and my wife. I got more congrats from them on my wife's pregnancy than members of my own FOO (my close friend still hasn't even called me back to congratulate me - and neither has one sibling and his wife - super tacky in my opinion)

I'll figure this out - little by little - day by day - one step at a time.

Thanks for listening. I appreciate everyone's thoughts!

Eddiebuckle

thot,

I went to therapy for a couple of years after getting sober, though there were no obvious signs that I needed this - it was really helpful. I was able to get clarity on things that I just assumed were "the way life is" or "just the way I am."

Far more of life is choice than we often acknowledge, for choice means change and change can seem strange or terrifying. Choice also implies some level of ownership for the way things are - and that was really hard for me to accept. Much like drinking, there are ways of being or perceiving the world that are essentially "shortcuts" - ways we try and get what we want (happiness, acceptance, etc.) without honestly dealing with the people and circumstances in our life.

I don't know your brother, but his words and deeds sure sound like an attempted shortcut. His dominance is an underhanded way at trying to be in control of his life and the people and wider world around him - which is, of course, delusional. But the pain of growing to a place of being emotionally open likely scares him more than the prospect of appearing weak, so he continues doing what he always has (being an @sshat).

One thing I heard in early sobriety that really resonated once I pondered it: "people ALWAYS behave in a manner consistent with how they perceive the world." I cannot tell you how much my life has improved since I started challenging how I perceived the world and myself. I don't always like tearing off the band-aids, but eventually it leads to more healing, and a greater experience of this life.

Keep digging and challenging your old mindset. It seems to me that you are on the right path.

NWGRITS

Healthy between siblings requires having two healthy siblings. You don't have that, so you have one healthy sibling exercising boundaries. Same as every other day. Any type of control is still not healthy. Just keep working your program. I'm still going to gently insist on some kind of No Contact for a while as you continue counseling and focus on this coming baby. It is IMPERATIVE that you are providing a quiet, low-stress environment for your wife and unborn child. Getting mired in FOO junk isn't going to do any of you any good.