Accepting Rejection from FOO members
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Accepting Rejection from FOO members
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm simply having trouble accepting rejection as it is. No explanation. No circumstance to point to. Just plain rejection. Period.
I have cut two siblings from my life because of their repeated abusive behavior. I've tried to reason with them, but they continue to call my wife names, argue that she's changed me for the worse, repeat how much they don't like her, that it's in my best interest to divorce her, etc, etc. They offered to only spend time with me and I refused. That doesn't work for me. Respecting me, my wife, my marriage, my own choice of family is a part of the deal when it comes to a relationship with me. They've also called me names, criticized me, etc (including telling me 'I don't love you, you're not my family').
My father is an active alcoholic, while I have gotten sober. The people I am most suspicious of having an addiction as well are the very siblings I'm having issues with.
A third brother (which hangs out with the other two all the time) has argued the same thing. That he doesn't get along with my wife (I had a question mark over my head when he said this, he seemed liked he was being nice - was it fake?). That he is willing to spend time with me only, and why is that a problem?
I have fretted and fretted over this. What's the deal I say in my brain. What is their problem with my wife? Is it something I said. Something my wife said? something we did? Something we can undo? and the circle of the mouse in the wheel goes.
Is it possible that there is no explanation and they simply want to reject everything I stand for - no support for my sobriety (NONE), no support for my marriage (nasty remarks, avoiding my wife), no support for me (I don't love you, you have no friends - the insults go on and on), no support for our efforts to have a little one (we've been trying for 4.5 yrs), no acknowledgement of my feelings or the abusive behavior, etc, etc.
For my wife, it's easy. She says: this third brother has never been there for you. Why bother trying? He isn't.
So, is the issue rolling over in my brain, me just doing this?
That, I simply need to accept the rejection and move on with my life? Like what's blocking me is simply the fear of rejection? That the fear is so intense that I would rather explain something away instead of simply accepting rejection. And Cut people out of my life that aren't supporting me or trying to work on their relationship with me (I don't get calls, no e-mails, no responses in facebook, even when I post stuff about kittens or video games or innocent stuff). Or dropping the rope so to speak. And turning to work on the relationships where I have a willing participant?
If that's the case. I need to work to accept my fear. Accept the rejection (even though it hurts and doesn't make any sense to me), and move on to living my life without many of my FOO members (even the good ones aren't very good at acknowledging the abuse and calling it out)?
P.S. - I use "they" pretty broadly. Many behaviors come from single individuals and others aren't responsible for that behavior. I'm using "they" simply for convenience.
I have cut two siblings from my life because of their repeated abusive behavior. I've tried to reason with them, but they continue to call my wife names, argue that she's changed me for the worse, repeat how much they don't like her, that it's in my best interest to divorce her, etc, etc. They offered to only spend time with me and I refused. That doesn't work for me. Respecting me, my wife, my marriage, my own choice of family is a part of the deal when it comes to a relationship with me. They've also called me names, criticized me, etc (including telling me 'I don't love you, you're not my family').
My father is an active alcoholic, while I have gotten sober. The people I am most suspicious of having an addiction as well are the very siblings I'm having issues with.
A third brother (which hangs out with the other two all the time) has argued the same thing. That he doesn't get along with my wife (I had a question mark over my head when he said this, he seemed liked he was being nice - was it fake?). That he is willing to spend time with me only, and why is that a problem?
I have fretted and fretted over this. What's the deal I say in my brain. What is their problem with my wife? Is it something I said. Something my wife said? something we did? Something we can undo? and the circle of the mouse in the wheel goes.
Is it possible that there is no explanation and they simply want to reject everything I stand for - no support for my sobriety (NONE), no support for my marriage (nasty remarks, avoiding my wife), no support for me (I don't love you, you have no friends - the insults go on and on), no support for our efforts to have a little one (we've been trying for 4.5 yrs), no acknowledgement of my feelings or the abusive behavior, etc, etc.
For my wife, it's easy. She says: this third brother has never been there for you. Why bother trying? He isn't.
So, is the issue rolling over in my brain, me just doing this?
That, I simply need to accept the rejection and move on with my life? Like what's blocking me is simply the fear of rejection? That the fear is so intense that I would rather explain something away instead of simply accepting rejection. And Cut people out of my life that aren't supporting me or trying to work on their relationship with me (I don't get calls, no e-mails, no responses in facebook, even when I post stuff about kittens or video games or innocent stuff). Or dropping the rope so to speak. And turning to work on the relationships where I have a willing participant?
If that's the case. I need to work to accept my fear. Accept the rejection (even though it hurts and doesn't make any sense to me), and move on to living my life without many of my FOO members (even the good ones aren't very good at acknowledging the abuse and calling it out)?
P.S. - I use "they" pretty broadly. Many behaviors come from single individuals and others aren't responsible for that behavior. I'm using "they" simply for convenience.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
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I think most people fear rejection to a greater or lesser degree. It's simple human nature. If that rejection is coming from family it is just a thousand times harder. What your siblings are saying to you is hurtful and wrong. Have any of them ever tried to sit you down and explain what exactly is the problem they have with your wife? Is this pattern of behavior toward you typical? Are they always judgmental of your choices, etc?
If the answer is yes this pattern is typical remember alcoholism is a family disease. You say your father is an alcoholic. That means your siblings are just as sick from the dysfunction even if they never drink. As painful as it is sometimes the safest, healthiest thing we can do is eliminate these people from our lives.
If the answer is yes this pattern is typical remember alcoholism is a family disease. You say your father is an alcoholic. That means your siblings are just as sick from the dysfunction even if they never drink. As painful as it is sometimes the safest, healthiest thing we can do is eliminate these people from our lives.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I have offered them the opportunity to attend counseling with myself and my wife. The two siblings have refused. They also refuse to discuss finding a compromise or middle ground.
When people refuse to talk things over, I don't think there's much I can do.
They say, "oh, we'll be cordial and respectful." But, that's not what they actually do. I'm sorry, but when you insult someone's character and then say, "I'll be respectful" it's like punching someone in the face and saying I won't hit you at the same time.
I have realized that I've been picked on quite a bit long before my wife came along. I'm just standing up for myself now. For example, I was often referred to as the lazy and stubborn one of the family. My experience shows the opposite (phd's aren't lazy - everyone else in my life says the opposite about me). When I told my mother calling me those names was not OK, she said, "I'll call you another name. You're over-sensitive."
I have to figure out what I'll accept. And yeah, I can empathize with them dealing with the effects of a disease they have no control over. I can feel sorry for their situation, and take care of me anyways.
When people refuse to talk things over, I don't think there's much I can do.
They say, "oh, we'll be cordial and respectful." But, that's not what they actually do. I'm sorry, but when you insult someone's character and then say, "I'll be respectful" it's like punching someone in the face and saying I won't hit you at the same time.
I have realized that I've been picked on quite a bit long before my wife came along. I'm just standing up for myself now. For example, I was often referred to as the lazy and stubborn one of the family. My experience shows the opposite (phd's aren't lazy - everyone else in my life says the opposite about me). When I told my mother calling me those names was not OK, she said, "I'll call you another name. You're over-sensitive."
I have to figure out what I'll accept. And yeah, I can empathize with them dealing with the effects of a disease they have no control over. I can feel sorry for their situation, and take care of me anyways.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
How I hate the "you're too sensitive" remark! My XAH family was downright mean and when my feelings got hurt that was the go to line. Personally, I think it's more than OK to be sensitive, better that than insensitive! Hang in there, sounds like you have a good partner in your wife.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
You're expending an awful lot of energy that would be better spent working on yourself and being put toward your marriage. None of you want to help yourselves, and instead are trying to control each other. Drop the rope. Focus on getting yourself better. If they choose to seek help for their own problems, that is THEIR choice. I honestly don't see why you're so adamant about forcing them to accept someone they simply don't want to. They have a right to not like her or you. Let them go.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
thotful, it took me a long long time and a lot of therapy to accept some of the things you are faced with now. I finally (& over time) realized...and my therapist helped me understand...that all of my siblings were just as damaged as me...but they did not 'wake up' if you will...and so denial and projecting their negative emotions on me became their pasttime...until I was able to free myself from what I call the Tarbaby attachments.
it was me that the family didn't accept for the longest time...over more than a decade...my two brothers have come in closer...but mom and sis remain estranged by their choice...not mine. I almost had a breakdown from the excessive trying I put in during that time...but their choices had already been made.
it was only when I realized that I had no control over them or their decisions that I was able to move forward in healthier ways...and I hope this for you.
P.S. My mother's favorite term for me was 'too sensitive'--and the other one from many was 'don't take it so personally'. Those terms helped me identify that I qualify as what is termed (in other areas) as a 'highly sensitive person or HSP' and I go to coffee every couple of weeks with 8-10 who change from week to week...and we all get along fabulously...
Take good care of you.
it was me that the family didn't accept for the longest time...over more than a decade...my two brothers have come in closer...but mom and sis remain estranged by their choice...not mine. I almost had a breakdown from the excessive trying I put in during that time...but their choices had already been made.
it was only when I realized that I had no control over them or their decisions that I was able to move forward in healthier ways...and I hope this for you.
P.S. My mother's favorite term for me was 'too sensitive'--and the other one from many was 'don't take it so personally'. Those terms helped me identify that I qualify as what is termed (in other areas) as a 'highly sensitive person or HSP' and I go to coffee every couple of weeks with 8-10 who change from week to week...and we all get along fabulously...
Take good care of you.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Posts: 3,178
Thotful,
How are these siblings still getting to you if you have cut them out of your life? This post feels like a duplicate of past posts regarding your family. Because of the lack of change in what is going on, I wonder if your inability to accept the situation is more akin to nursing a resentment?
The only one you can control is you. It has taken me a lot of work to accept my own self worth is not based on who I was when I was a child, my failure at not being the child I should have been in my parents' eyes, and accepting that I could achieve great success in my life and my parents will not be able to communicate in love any true pride in my accomplishments. It is just not going to come from them. Accepting that my sibling was raised to treat me the same way was my first step in dealing with this. I just let go.
It just is. I hope you get unstuck Thotful. It might be easier than you think to just stop trying.
How are these siblings still getting to you if you have cut them out of your life? This post feels like a duplicate of past posts regarding your family. Because of the lack of change in what is going on, I wonder if your inability to accept the situation is more akin to nursing a resentment?
The only one you can control is you. It has taken me a lot of work to accept my own self worth is not based on who I was when I was a child, my failure at not being the child I should have been in my parents' eyes, and accepting that I could achieve great success in my life and my parents will not be able to communicate in love any true pride in my accomplishments. It is just not going to come from them. Accepting that my sibling was raised to treat me the same way was my first step in dealing with this. I just let go.
It just is. I hope you get unstuck Thotful. It might be easier than you think to just stop trying.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
FB and other social media are the worst thing ever invented, for people with toxic relatives -- having topped email and text messaging, the previous titleholders.
All toxic relatives should be blocked from all social media. Email should be deleted -- or, what's more fun if your email client has it, is the "Bounce to Sender" command, which makes the sender think your address is no longer good.
I do have a few relatives who are FB friends -- but they're the non-toxic ones. The others can get lost!
T
All toxic relatives should be blocked from all social media. Email should be deleted -- or, what's more fun if your email client has it, is the "Bounce to Sender" command, which makes the sender think your address is no longer good.
I do have a few relatives who are FB friends -- but they're the non-toxic ones. The others can get lost!
T
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
I have another brother (other than the 2 estranged - total, I have 6 brothers, 1 sister) who has said one thing and done another. He has asked to only spend time with me and never my wife. My mother has recently tried to talk to me (ie, triangulate) about this other brother.
I see a huge difference between "not liking" someone and being able to show them respect, treat them with dignity, etc. And gossiping behind someone's back, trying to avoid a person, and not being very nice. You don't have to like someone to be respectful.
I would appreciate some support on the forum. Telling me I'm saying the same thing over and over again isn't helping. It seems like I'm being discouraged from asking for help. That is completely opposite of the support I get from my meetings. I am trying. By writing on this forum, I'm asking for some support in working on my life. It's a way to ask for help. Some patience with that, would be appreciated.
I don't think I have resentment, because I would have ill will towards some of my siblings. That's definitely not true. I'm experiencing some immense grief over being emotionally abused by some of my own family members (and rejected). Cutting me some slack as I go through the grief process would be helpful. However, some comments have been helpful. I suppose I'll take what I like and leave the rest.
I will work on me and my marriage and work on accepting the broken relationships with several of my siblings (and utter lack of contact from my alcoholic father). It will be hard, but I'll do my best. Focusing on making my own healthy life will help.
One day at a time.
I see a huge difference between "not liking" someone and being able to show them respect, treat them with dignity, etc. And gossiping behind someone's back, trying to avoid a person, and not being very nice. You don't have to like someone to be respectful.
I would appreciate some support on the forum. Telling me I'm saying the same thing over and over again isn't helping. It seems like I'm being discouraged from asking for help. That is completely opposite of the support I get from my meetings. I am trying. By writing on this forum, I'm asking for some support in working on my life. It's a way to ask for help. Some patience with that, would be appreciated.
I don't think I have resentment, because I would have ill will towards some of my siblings. That's definitely not true. I'm experiencing some immense grief over being emotionally abused by some of my own family members (and rejected). Cutting me some slack as I go through the grief process would be helpful. However, some comments have been helpful. I suppose I'll take what I like and leave the rest.
I will work on me and my marriage and work on accepting the broken relationships with several of my siblings (and utter lack of contact from my alcoholic father). It will be hard, but I'll do my best. Focusing on making my own healthy life will help.
One day at a time.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Well, you kind of are saying the same thing over and over. I've looked at your other posts and they say the same thing. Why do you feel the need to have a relationship with these people who so obviously have no respect for you or your wife? You can't force anyone to like, respect, or tolerate others. You simply aren't that powerful. None of us are. How about trying to put some distance between all of you for a while? I can't imagine your wife is very happy being in the middle of this childish tug-of-war. They don't respect you, don't respect her, don't want to see or talk to her - and THAT IS THEIR RIGHT. You can't change them, and I'll bet your wife will get sick of it soon enough. What is more important to you: having a healthy, loving marriage with someone who DOES care about and respect you, or fighting a losing battle with your FOO (and possibly alienating and losing your wife in the process)? We're trying to help you see the control issues from an objective standpoint. We don't like seeing you rowing your boat with only one oar and going around in circles all the time. Don't take our honesty and perspective as not supportive. We would be irresponsible and doing you a disservice to encourage your current modus operandi - because it's not healthy and won't work.
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I won't waste my time with foo sib drama. I moved out and into a new life without them. They did the same, they didn't want me in their life. Sometimes just seeing each other brings up trauma of bad memories. It's just too much. I have forgiven them all and my parents too but I know what is reality and I will never have the happy foo family to hang out with. I made my own family.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
NWGrits, we're going to disagree about the control aspect. I agree that there is a lack of respect towards me from several of my siblings. If I say I'm not feeling supported with some pieces of your responses, then that's how I'm feeling. I agree with some, and disagree with others.
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Easy does it people. Step back from the keyboard, go walk around and get some air. Come back tomorrow.
We are all on the same side; _our_ side. It's those crazy people out there in "Toxic Land" that we need to watch out for. Here, inside SR, we all have the same pain, and the same hope.
Mike
Moderator, SR
We are all on the same side; _our_ side. It's those crazy people out there in "Toxic Land" that we need to watch out for. Here, inside SR, we all have the same pain, and the same hope.
Mike
Moderator, SR
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 42
Thotful, you have made the right decision by refusing to spend time alone with your FOO. Had you spend time alone with them, there is that risk that you may start believing that your wife is ‘The problem’ and it is in your best interest to divorce her.
IMO, your three brothers are ganging up on you because you confronted them about their abusive behaviour. Don’t let them come between you and your wife.
When it comes to my acoa husband’s crazy FOO who hated me (over something I said to them twenty years ago!), if they come to visit us, I am polite and pleasant to them but I will make sure they never spend any time alone with my acoa husband or daughter.
How about your wife…can you be part of her family?
IMO, your three brothers are ganging up on you because you confronted them about their abusive behaviour. Don’t let them come between you and your wife.
When it comes to my acoa husband’s crazy FOO who hated me (over something I said to them twenty years ago!), if they come to visit us, I am polite and pleasant to them but I will make sure they never spend any time alone with my acoa husband or daughter.
How about your wife…can you be part of her family?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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My wife's family is just plain awesome. I feel sad and good at the same time that I speak more with my mother-in-law. Sad (or guilty?) that I don't feel as comfortable talking with my mother (I stick to surface stuff). I feel good that my wife's mother has been so supportive. I share a lot with her.
My wife's family has shown me what it feels like to be respected. To have support. To have something different that I like. To feel welcome, just as I am.
Amazing feeling.
For example, I went to a vacation for my uncle-in-law's 50th wedding anniversary. I'm in a vehicle with my wife's adult cousins (both married with several kids). They're discussing some minor issue (something about how long a cake could be in a fridge or left out - can't remember exaclty), and then asked my opinion. Then they were silent. It was like they actually wanted to hear what I had to say. I have felt so invisible for most of my life - this little act of acknowledgement...words can barely describe. I grew up having to interrupt people to get a word-in, and be loud about it too. Even then, I doubt I felt heard at all. (it's a habit that my wife hates, and I'm trying to work on it, because that survival behavior is completely unnecessary in our marriage)
Long story short. Sad that most of my family don't really respect, appreciate me for who I am. Sad that in a matter of days of meeting me, not knowing me as well, I am treated MORE LIKE FAMILY by my wife's uncle-in-law, aunt, cousins, mom, dad, etc. But I am also glad. It felt warm. It felt good.
I need to work more on accepting the love and welcome I get from my wife's family and accepting the opposite I get from my own.
I want to work more on as I've said in meetings (avoid being that moth that loves to move towards the flame instead of away).
Deep breaths. Deep breaths. One day at a time.
My wife's family has shown me what it feels like to be respected. To have support. To have something different that I like. To feel welcome, just as I am.
Amazing feeling.
For example, I went to a vacation for my uncle-in-law's 50th wedding anniversary. I'm in a vehicle with my wife's adult cousins (both married with several kids). They're discussing some minor issue (something about how long a cake could be in a fridge or left out - can't remember exaclty), and then asked my opinion. Then they were silent. It was like they actually wanted to hear what I had to say. I have felt so invisible for most of my life - this little act of acknowledgement...words can barely describe. I grew up having to interrupt people to get a word-in, and be loud about it too. Even then, I doubt I felt heard at all. (it's a habit that my wife hates, and I'm trying to work on it, because that survival behavior is completely unnecessary in our marriage)
Long story short. Sad that most of my family don't really respect, appreciate me for who I am. Sad that in a matter of days of meeting me, not knowing me as well, I am treated MORE LIKE FAMILY by my wife's uncle-in-law, aunt, cousins, mom, dad, etc. But I am also glad. It felt warm. It felt good.
I need to work more on accepting the love and welcome I get from my wife's family and accepting the opposite I get from my own.
I want to work more on as I've said in meetings (avoid being that moth that loves to move towards the flame instead of away).
Deep breaths. Deep breaths. One day at a time.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 71
Hey there Thot! I read your opening post and jumped to the pad...then...I read some more and jumped to reply and then I read some more and here we are. Minus the JV basketball team size family, EVERY word and feeling you expressed describes most of my FOO warfare to a T. You are not alone and for the record, apologize for nothing, ever. I see exceptional work being done here. Identify it, extract it, correct it and move forward....just how I'm doing it I mean. Sorry, I'm probably responding to myself here since your post(s) hit home. I think you are attacking this issue in a very positive and effective way. A way I personally learned in Acoa and through MY recovery as it relates to MY very FFOO.
Keep going, I'd like to respond to a couple points you've raised above, I'll try and make it short but.....great points of discussion (I can't help it) thanks for raising all of them.
OGK
Keep going, I'd like to respond to a couple points you've raised above, I'll try and make it short but.....great points of discussion (I can't help it) thanks for raising all of them.
OGK
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,459
Hi Thotful - I can relate to a lot of your posts. Although it is not my spouse my family rejects, it is me! By "family" I mean my two brothers. My sister and parents are dead so I virtually have no FOO. I am like you - I need to know why, but after years of wondering and thinking and analyzing and blaming myself, I realize that the problem lies with THEM and not me. It still upsets me but at least I don't feel that burden of having to reconcile with them anymore. I have found my family in friends and people who actually like and care about me. Blood doesn't automatically bind people.
It sounds like you have also done a lot of psychological analysis as well. I found this article about being the family scapegoat really helpful for me. You might as well.
8 Ways To Stand Up to the Scapegoat Inside You
It sounds like you have also done a lot of psychological analysis as well. I found this article about being the family scapegoat really helpful for me. You might as well.
8 Ways To Stand Up to the Scapegoat Inside You
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