Question about No Contact with a Parent
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I'm calling shenanigans on her not knowing why. I have been NC with my AM.Since July 2012, and that means no contact. None. Her number is blocked and I return mail from her. Nothing I say will change her, and she has no intentions of quitting drinking. I personally wouldn't bother sending anything, but that's just me.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
mine is totally hostile, you are right about that 
and guilt is one of her greatest weapons! i love the sticky in here about handling guilt. it helped me earlier today when i was trying to decide if a problem was mine to fix or someone else's.
what is the problem right now? is it that your mother 'doesn't know' why you're not talking to her? i'm guessing you've explained it a bunch of times in a bunch of ways. i'm guessing that if she was actually sober and actually had done the work she would need to do transform into someone you'd need/want back in your life, she wouldn't be trying to suck you back into a discussion in which you have to go through it all again with her - she'd be apologizing and owning up to her behavior.
i'm with nwgrits. don't let her suck you back in.
having said that - i'm considering writing mine a letter, too. there are some things i want to be said before i get The Call - for both my sake and hers - but more so for mine. i will probably have to fedex her a letter because she changes her email so much, forwards her street address mail to her PO Box, and hasn't paid her PO Box bill in so long that all the mail that goes to it - bills included - gets bounced back.
and guilt is one of her greatest weapons! i love the sticky in here about handling guilt. it helped me earlier today when i was trying to decide if a problem was mine to fix or someone else's. what is the problem right now? is it that your mother 'doesn't know' why you're not talking to her? i'm guessing you've explained it a bunch of times in a bunch of ways. i'm guessing that if she was actually sober and actually had done the work she would need to do transform into someone you'd need/want back in your life, she wouldn't be trying to suck you back into a discussion in which you have to go through it all again with her - she'd be apologizing and owning up to her behavior.
i'm with nwgrits. don't let her suck you back in.
having said that - i'm considering writing mine a letter, too. there are some things i want to be said before i get The Call - for both my sake and hers - but more so for mine. i will probably have to fedex her a letter because she changes her email so much, forwards her street address mail to her PO Box, and hasn't paid her PO Box bill in so long that all the mail that goes to it - bills included - gets bounced back.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
The problem with my mom is that she doesn't listen and tries to poopoo anything said that doesn't fit with her reality. I realize now that this attitude just beat me down so I never told her what I wanted to say. I was also still hoping that someday we could at least be friends. The past few years have shown me this isn't possible, and I only really spoke my mind that one time before I cut off contact. Even then I was trying to be "nice" - telling her that it was killing me to watch her destroy her life. However, this was after her best friend was harassing and threatening me (she left terrible messages on my phone) because I wasn't taking care of my mother. So I am sure on one level she does know, on another she may not know that I have decided to go no contact. That's why I was thinking a short note just saying sorry, for my sanity I can't have you or your addiction in my life right now.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
any time i talked to my mom, i found myself being so careful of how i worded things and timed what i said, because i knew she was going to pick over everything so carefully to find complaints, criticisms, or any confirmation of her multitudinous fears and worries behind anything that came out of my mouth. ("the sky is blue" "are you saying it's my fault? i'm terribly sorry to have brought you out when the weather isn't up to your standards. i know you are very busy. i shouldn't have troubled you when you have more important things to do. i'm a terrible mother, you're right. why don't i just walk." - this real conversation happened en route to the ER after she fell, again)
do you think she would respect your wishes if you wrote her a note that said that in order for you to take care of yourself, you need to have no contact with her because of her addiction?
i just know i explained to my mom in several ways what my boundaries are and why... and she would still cross them when she got angry or drunk enough. but if you feel like you haven't explained that you have made a definite decision to go NC... you can accomplish NC without letting the other person know. is it/why would it be important to make that last bit of contact to SAY you're going NC? i'm just thinking out loud here.
do you think she would respect your wishes if you wrote her a note that said that in order for you to take care of yourself, you need to have no contact with her because of her addiction?
i just know i explained to my mom in several ways what my boundaries are and why... and she would still cross them when she got angry or drunk enough. but if you feel like you haven't explained that you have made a definite decision to go NC... you can accomplish NC without letting the other person know. is it/why would it be important to make that last bit of contact to SAY you're going NC? i'm just thinking out loud here.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by ajarlson 
Thanks. I was contemplating it last night and realizing that a long drawn out letter with everything she ever did wouldn't really help. Just a short, "I need to step away from you and your addiction for my own sanity", would probably be better.
For you, write it out, write it ALL out. Then pray about it, give it and her to God and burn that sucka!
That is what I did, helped a lot! I moved on, what she does, is none of my business anymore.
I gave her to God. She needs to deal with him/her/it, not me!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
Thanks GracieLou. For some reason when I read your post just now tears came to my eyes. I might not be ready to write it all out yet - or at least it might have to be when I know no one will be home. 
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
And thanks for thinking out loud seasaw - my counselor agreed that because of my mom's constantly pushing on any boundary I had it was better to go NC. It was exhausting. So, why would it be important to let her know? I have been turning that over in my mind for quite a while now. I think it's because I think that if it's written down and sent in a letter, and if it's short and to the point, she will definitely read it. And just knowing she read it will bring me some measure of peace - I THINK. Guess I'd have to try it to know for sure. 
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
That is actually one of the things I came to this forum about - to read and talk and learn and figure out what I need to say in a letter to my mother before she dies. Because it could happen ten years from now or tomorrow, and now that I've figured out some of the day-to-day logistics and feelings of being NC with my only parent, I'm starting to learn about the long-term ones. I think that, for MY sake, I need to write a longer letter...
But like GracieLou said, I don't know if I will even need to send that letter! Maybe I will? Gah I don't know.
Keep us up to date ajarlson! Do you think it'll be like throwing gasoline on the fire if you send it? Will it make her redouble her efforts to contact you? If you think it will help you feel better to send the short-and-sweet statement of your boundary then yeah, STATE that. Throw in a 'To be clear, I will not be reading or responding to any communications from you.'
Maybe you feel like you need her to know (or at least give her a chance of knowing, I don't know if she thinks any more rationally than my mom does) that there's a direct correlation between her addiction and treatment of you, and losing her relationship with you; the consequence of her actions and untreated illness.
But like GracieLou said, I don't know if I will even need to send that letter! Maybe I will? Gah I don't know.
Keep us up to date ajarlson! Do you think it'll be like throwing gasoline on the fire if you send it? Will it make her redouble her efforts to contact you? If you think it will help you feel better to send the short-and-sweet statement of your boundary then yeah, STATE that. Throw in a 'To be clear, I will not be reading or responding to any communications from you.'
Maybe you feel like you need her to know (or at least give her a chance of knowing, I don't know if she thinks any more rationally than my mom does) that there's a direct correlation between her addiction and treatment of you, and losing her relationship with you; the consequence of her actions and untreated illness.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
We shall see, I have spent my life avoiding conflict, it feels strange to potentially seek it out LOL.
However, I guess another thing was to give her a chance to change all her beneficiary information to my half brother. She has stuff in probate from my grandmother's death 10 years ago (the condo she lives in) but she also has some sizable insurance policies. I don't want anything from her, and perhaps she'll change everything over to him if she knows.
However, I guess another thing was to give her a chance to change all her beneficiary information to my half brother. She has stuff in probate from my grandmother's death 10 years ago (the condo she lives in) but she also has some sizable insurance policies. I don't want anything from her, and perhaps she'll change everything over to him if she knows.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
It's not a conflict if only one person is fighting! then it's just... flict. uniflict. *cough* anyway...have you totally thought through the money thing? do you want to give yourself some more time on that? you mentioned you have two kids... i have no idea if my mom will burn through everything she has, or live long enough to, or if she's been angry enough at me in the last 7 months to write me out of her will and leave everything to charity. if you're decided then just instruct her to do that. or leave it alone and when the day comes and you receive a check, you can forward the funds to your half brother. that way, you'll never have to have the conversation with yourself or her about what her plans are.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
i so understand. my fellow would say, 'don't let her steal any more of your thoughts and energy'. but, i soooo understand. i have broken my NC boundary once, a few weeks ago. it found out that my mom had been calling my 103yr old adorable lovely clueless grandmother and telling her sob stories about that she can't get out of bed, that she doesn't have any food, that she's totally alone, that she has cancer (that, at least, is a lie). now that everyone's walked away from my mom, she's calling her 103yr old mommy to come save her. it's ludicrous and cruel. my grandma has been a nervous wreck. so i tried calling my mom a few times to make a short and sweet statement that if she didn't stop it, xyz would happen. but of course her voicemail isn't working. (then found out she is now ignoring MY calls. hilarious.) so i emailed a brief note to my aunt to pass on to my mother.
this set me back, i am thinking about it most of my days now instead of hardly at all. but my grandmother is too old to defend herself from it, her number can't be changed because of the building she lives in, and there's really no one else in a position to actually get my mother to stop doing anything. sigh.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
That is so sad. Hopefully you can be there for your grandmother and help calm her fears. You're in my thoughts, at least the people that my mom can turn against me are people I don't really care about anyway. I am surrounded by people that love and support me which is a huge factor in my being able to do this. Sounds like your mom is going to try to catch you up any way she can - stay strong!
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Your mom sounds like a narcissist, if not just a BPD. You can send the note, but I would prepare for the backlash. She won't see it as a cease and desist, it'll be a challenge posed to her instead. My AM goes through phases of attempted contact and I just ignore her. Anything I do know about her comes through the grapevine, and not at my asking. I did write one long letter to AM as part of a therapy assignment. It was never sent, but just writing it was therapeutic. You need to do what's best for yourself, but stop relying on her for any approval or affirmation. You'll never get it.
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Posts: 315
Thanks NWGRITS. I'm sure you're right. For now I'm just keeping my head down and not answering, perhaps I should block her number so I don't have to get that anxiety when the phone rings.
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I don't know who wrote this - I found it through a link in this forum's recommended book list, as a part of a description of a booklist about divorcing toxic relatives. For the record!
How can we keep ourselves and our loved ones safe from our abusive parents, siblings, or other relatives? After we have tried rebuking, confronting, reasoning, pleading, and setting limits for years- only to find that nothing works with abusers- what choice is left? And after we disown our abusers, or THEY disown US for setting limits on their behavior, how can we stay safe from their drama, schemes, manipulations, and attempts to draw us back in?
If you have not yet gone No Contact- or have only just recently done so- then some of these measures will no doubt seem extreme to you at this point in time. Your estranged family might not have tried yet to get to you and re-establish their control over your life using these tactics, but eventually they will start. And then, not only will you see the logic in putting up impermeable walls, but you will be prepared to do so and not be caught off-guard.
As always, what I write is my own opinion based on my personal experiences with abusers and their targets, and not intended to substitute for counseling with a qualified professional. I urge you to seek counseling with your pastor or a licensed therapist who specializes in the field of abuse before making any decisions regarding your individual situation.
So, what exactly does it mean to “cut ties” with reprobate, sociopathic abusers?:
TWENTY-ONE RULES OF NO CONTACT
1. No talking to them no matter what happens and no matter what you hear.
2. No letting them talk to you, No listening to anything they say, No "hearing them out."
3. No letting them into your house and No going to their house. If it is possible to move, then move, get a P.O. box, and don't let them know when or where you're going.
4. No phone calls and No returning voicemail messages. Change your number to unlisted and unpublished, and do not give it to anyone you can't trust not to give it to your abuser. Never pick up the phone. Use Caller ID or let your machine pick up.
5. No sending or responding to e-mails. Block their e-mails, IMs, and ability to see when you are online.
6. No meetings to "talk things over" or "work things out."
7. No cards or letters, and No responding to cards or letters. No birthday cards. No Christmas cards. No Mother's Day or Father's Day cards.
8. No giving gifts and No accepting gifts. If a gift is sent to you, No acknowledging it and No responding.
9. No exceptions for holidays, birthdays, or anniversaries.
10. No returning gifts, cards, or letters. To an abuser, that is a response. He will interpret it to mean that you are still emotionally connected to him, you still care, and if he keeps trying, he can wear you down. Just ignore all communications.
11. No visits, including hospital visits.
12. No letting them near your kids. If they're too toxic for you to be around, then they're too toxic for your children to be around. Monitor your children's e-mails and cell phones, changing e-mail accounts and phone numbers if necessary. Warn your children to stay away from them, and to run and tell a teacher if they show up at their school. Notify your children's school to call you and the police.
13. No public pleasantries. If you run into them in a public place, ignore them, turn your back, and walk away. If they approach you, say in a loud voice, "Leave me alone!" and "Do not talk to me." If they persist or you believe you are being stalked, call the police. Get a paper trail started. Make a police report and get a case number so that in the future you can file charges for stalking, aggravated harassment, and any other crimes that the police or your lawyer can think of.
14. No discussing them with anybody who has contact with them.
15. No speaking at all to anyone who might be pumping you for information or spying on you, and reporting back to them. Cut off anyone who is not loyal to you.
16. No listening to any news about them. If you are absolutely dying of curiosity, listen, but do not show any undue interest, do not get baited into responding, and do not reveal any information about yourself in return.
17. No giving other people information about you or your family that they could carry back to your abuser.
18. No invitations to your big events and No responding to invitations they send you.
19. No responding to news that they are getting married, having a baby, getting a new job, retiring, moving, taking a trip, sick, dying, or dead.
20. No big announcements and No telling them anything about your life- No letting them know you're getting married, moving, or having a baby. No letting them know when your children get married, where they live, work, or go to school, or when your grandkids are born.
21. Print out e-mails, tape voicemail messages, and keep all cards, letters, and other communications in a file for future harassment or stalking charges, but do not respond.
No Contact means NO Contact. Nothing! Nada, Zilch, Zip, Zero. As if your ex-abusers were total strangers who also happen to be dangerous, psychopathic stalkers. Which they pretty much are. So why would you not protect yourself and your family from them?
Narcissists do not understand limits, maintaining a comfortable distance, taking it slow, or being cordial while still keeping someone at arm’s length. They only deal in extremes, and must be totally enmeshed with you, with no boundaries or restrictions. It’s all or nothing with them. Because of this, it’s important to accept that it is not possible to have “limited” or “occasional” contact- for instance, only when there is a big event like a wedding or a funeral. This only sends a mixed message to your abuser, who will interpret any willingness at all on your part to communicate with him as a sign that all is forgiven, you’ve gotten over your little snit, and everything can now go back to normal, without him ever having to apologize or stop abusing you.
No Contact is The End. You have already wasted your entire life trying everything possible to have a nice peaceful relationship, and nothing worked. That is why you’ve reached this crossroads. There is nothing left to try. It's over. It's time to put a period on it, walk away, and never look back. Time to finally live your life. Time to do what you must to protect yourself and your loved ones from evil people who would do you harm. If you break No Contact, you will only be sucked back in. If you keep No Contact, you will live your life in peace, freedom, and safety. And after it's all over, I leave it up to you whether you go to the funeral or not. If you have moved on with your life and left the past in the past, then you won't feel the need to.
If you have not yet gone No Contact- or have only just recently done so- then some of these measures will no doubt seem extreme to you at this point in time. Your estranged family might not have tried yet to get to you and re-establish their control over your life using these tactics, but eventually they will start. And then, not only will you see the logic in putting up impermeable walls, but you will be prepared to do so and not be caught off-guard.
As always, what I write is my own opinion based on my personal experiences with abusers and their targets, and not intended to substitute for counseling with a qualified professional. I urge you to seek counseling with your pastor or a licensed therapist who specializes in the field of abuse before making any decisions regarding your individual situation.
So, what exactly does it mean to “cut ties” with reprobate, sociopathic abusers?:
TWENTY-ONE RULES OF NO CONTACT
1. No talking to them no matter what happens and no matter what you hear.
2. No letting them talk to you, No listening to anything they say, No "hearing them out."
3. No letting them into your house and No going to their house. If it is possible to move, then move, get a P.O. box, and don't let them know when or where you're going.
4. No phone calls and No returning voicemail messages. Change your number to unlisted and unpublished, and do not give it to anyone you can't trust not to give it to your abuser. Never pick up the phone. Use Caller ID or let your machine pick up.
5. No sending or responding to e-mails. Block their e-mails, IMs, and ability to see when you are online.
6. No meetings to "talk things over" or "work things out."
7. No cards or letters, and No responding to cards or letters. No birthday cards. No Christmas cards. No Mother's Day or Father's Day cards.
8. No giving gifts and No accepting gifts. If a gift is sent to you, No acknowledging it and No responding.
9. No exceptions for holidays, birthdays, or anniversaries.
10. No returning gifts, cards, or letters. To an abuser, that is a response. He will interpret it to mean that you are still emotionally connected to him, you still care, and if he keeps trying, he can wear you down. Just ignore all communications.
11. No visits, including hospital visits.
12. No letting them near your kids. If they're too toxic for you to be around, then they're too toxic for your children to be around. Monitor your children's e-mails and cell phones, changing e-mail accounts and phone numbers if necessary. Warn your children to stay away from them, and to run and tell a teacher if they show up at their school. Notify your children's school to call you and the police.
13. No public pleasantries. If you run into them in a public place, ignore them, turn your back, and walk away. If they approach you, say in a loud voice, "Leave me alone!" and "Do not talk to me." If they persist or you believe you are being stalked, call the police. Get a paper trail started. Make a police report and get a case number so that in the future you can file charges for stalking, aggravated harassment, and any other crimes that the police or your lawyer can think of.
14. No discussing them with anybody who has contact with them.
15. No speaking at all to anyone who might be pumping you for information or spying on you, and reporting back to them. Cut off anyone who is not loyal to you.
16. No listening to any news about them. If you are absolutely dying of curiosity, listen, but do not show any undue interest, do not get baited into responding, and do not reveal any information about yourself in return.
17. No giving other people information about you or your family that they could carry back to your abuser.
18. No invitations to your big events and No responding to invitations they send you.
19. No responding to news that they are getting married, having a baby, getting a new job, retiring, moving, taking a trip, sick, dying, or dead.
20. No big announcements and No telling them anything about your life- No letting them know you're getting married, moving, or having a baby. No letting them know when your children get married, where they live, work, or go to school, or when your grandkids are born.
21. Print out e-mails, tape voicemail messages, and keep all cards, letters, and other communications in a file for future harassment or stalking charges, but do not respond.
No Contact means NO Contact. Nothing! Nada, Zilch, Zip, Zero. As if your ex-abusers were total strangers who also happen to be dangerous, psychopathic stalkers. Which they pretty much are. So why would you not protect yourself and your family from them?
Narcissists do not understand limits, maintaining a comfortable distance, taking it slow, or being cordial while still keeping someone at arm’s length. They only deal in extremes, and must be totally enmeshed with you, with no boundaries or restrictions. It’s all or nothing with them. Because of this, it’s important to accept that it is not possible to have “limited” or “occasional” contact- for instance, only when there is a big event like a wedding or a funeral. This only sends a mixed message to your abuser, who will interpret any willingness at all on your part to communicate with him as a sign that all is forgiven, you’ve gotten over your little snit, and everything can now go back to normal, without him ever having to apologize or stop abusing you.
No Contact is The End. You have already wasted your entire life trying everything possible to have a nice peaceful relationship, and nothing worked. That is why you’ve reached this crossroads. There is nothing left to try. It's over. It's time to put a period on it, walk away, and never look back. Time to finally live your life. Time to do what you must to protect yourself and your loved ones from evil people who would do you harm. If you break No Contact, you will only be sucked back in. If you keep No Contact, you will live your life in peace, freedom, and safety. And after it's all over, I leave it up to you whether you go to the funeral or not. If you have moved on with your life and left the past in the past, then you won't feel the need to.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by seasaw
i LOVE having that number blocked on my phone!!! you can always unblock it! it's enormously relaxing to never have to freeze like a rabbit next to a trap when you hear that dinging and buzzing!!!
Thanking lucky stars that my Dad never figured out how to text!
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
I just realized I have to break NC 
Her grand piano has been my house. I'm now moving out of that house. I'm going to return it to her, just so that she can't say down the line that I stole it, which is what she's already telling people even though she BEGGED me to put the giant instrument I don't even play in my living room back when she was cleaning out her own house and getting ready to move... ugh. Anyway.
So now I have to make contact and get her to arrange movers - I haven't had any contact with her since that fateful day in 8/2014. I am feeling a mixture of trepidation (understatement probably) and confidence (overstatement probably). There aren't any third parties I can ask to make arrangements.
Her grand piano has been my house. I'm now moving out of that house. I'm going to return it to her, just so that she can't say down the line that I stole it, which is what she's already telling people even though she BEGGED me to put the giant instrument I don't even play in my living room back when she was cleaning out her own house and getting ready to move... ugh. Anyway.
So now I have to make contact and get her to arrange movers - I haven't had any contact with her since that fateful day in 8/2014. I am feeling a mixture of trepidation (understatement probably) and confidence (overstatement probably). There aren't any third parties I can ask to make arrangements.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
Wow what a coincidence, the only time I broke NC was when my mom called and left a message to come get my grandmother's baby grand piano (which I had been wanting as she doesn't play). I called piano movers and had it the next day and called her to say thanks. Mistake. She showed up at my house the next day LOL. Acting like she was perfectly ok and talking about going out to dinner with her friend that had made the abusive phone calls. Haven't returned a call since.
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