Opening the can of worms - is it worth it? I’ve been reading a lot of stories around here, and learning tons. My question is: is it really worth it opening the can of worms? What motivates me to ask such question is that, after reading the 13 characteristics of children of alcoholics and many posts around here, I think most people would identity with the traits listed there, even though I am pretty much what the list describes and identify with the horror stories I’ve been reading here. Historical and cultural aspects weigh in too. What we see as dysfunctional today might have been just what “normal” was a few decades ago. I know the scars would still be there, and I’m not denying them. But these labels (“adult children of alcoholics”, for instance) and therapeutic approaches (“inner child healing”) put me off. Is it really necessary to open the Pandora box to change or adjust the behavioral consequences of a bad childhood? It’s an honest question, I’m not being sarcastic about it nor anything like that. I’m going back to therapy this week and I’m reluctant to dive into these so called traumas and just end up using them as an excuse for my shortcomings, as much as I see alcoholics use the disease card all the time (the “I have a disease!” thing). Just a little background: my father was an alcoholic and suffered from a somewhat extreme case of bipolar disorder (misdiagnosed as schizophrenic because he had severe psychotic episodes). My mother got a divorce when I was 5 and my sister was 9. We lived with my grandparents for 3 years, and my grandmother for some reason did not like me and life was hell. My mother was absent, emotionally. My father died 10 years ago of a heart attack, but he had been stable for some time before dying (5 years or so). My sister, who is 45 now, is an end stage alcoholic and won’t live much longer. Thank you |
Hello Biancafp, and welcome to our corner of recovery :)
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185568)
... My question is: is it really worth it opening the can of worms?....
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185568)
...I know the scars would still be there, and I’m not denying them. But these labels (“adult children of alcoholics”, for instance) and therapeutic approaches (“inner child healing”) put me off. ....
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185568)
... I’m reluctant to dive into these so called traumas and just end up using them as an excuse for my shortcomings....
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185568)
... Just a little background: .... Consider that ACoA is not designed to be adopted as a whole. It is built like a buffet, where you take whatever is useful and leave the rest. The "program" is just the 12 steps nothing more, all the rest of the literature, techniques, pamphlets, etc. are simply commentary on the steps and "tools" to be used as appropriate. Mike :) Moderator, SR |
Mike, thank you for taking the time to read and answer my question :) It does make sense what you said about not injuring ourselves or others in the process. And I guess "process" is key here. What would you recommend me to read about abandoned children? I wasn't abandoned per se, just plain invisible. I read a few threads where you talked a little bit about brainwashing, where could I could more about it? Thank you |
I do not think we need to. I think I personally struggled with some things for to long and should a looked into them earlier than I did – but I do also believe that things happen in fullness of time. People will mostly start up on such things if their current world view is challenged or they have difficulties in live. There are also different approaches and not all will back, many will just look at how we are functioning now and address whether some thinking or reactions we would benefit to change. I do not see it as a can of worms it is more the ghost under the bed – its influence comes from not being challenged. I do though agree it can be used as a scapegoat. You can not blame your father for being sick, you can partly blame your grandmother for disliking you – it does not matter much though. But you have to realize and acknowledge, in my view, that this was not fair towards you and there is some grief there. Take care. |
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185741)
... What would you recommend me to read about abandoned children? I wasn't abandoned per se, just plain invisible. ... As far as reading about recovery in general, we have a few suggestions here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oks-acoas.html If you are interested in a 12 step program, their website is here: Welcome to Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185741)
...I read a few threads where you talked a little bit about brainwashing, where could I could more about it? ... In the literature the generic term is "survival traits", the point being that these "traits" were essential to our survival as children but become a hindrance as we grow into adulthood. In my case I learned how to be very quiet and still as a child, and where to hide in the house in order to avoid getting hurt. I did it so well that whenever I ran away from home for a few days, none of the adults noticed I had been gone. I had been "brainwashed" into believing that all adults were dangerous and that being noticed would lead to pain. As an adult that "survival trait" resulted in being extremely shy, being afraid to excel, or even be moderately competent at my profession, unable to communicate beyond the superficial level, etc. etc. This type of "progression" of a behavior is discussed in any book on ACoA. The "creation" of the behavior is called "dysfunctional learning", but the term "brainwashing" is not generally used. I happen to find "brainwashing" to be more descriptive and accurate than "dysfunctional learning", that is an example of how the program of recovery is flexible and lets each one of us make use of whatever "tool" is useful and disregard what is not. Mike :) Moderator, SR |
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
(Post 4185840)
In the literature the generic term is "survival traits", the point being that these "traits" were essential to our survival as children but become a hindrance as we grow into adulthood. Mike :) Moderator, SR I've shared before one of mine was lying when it was just as easy to tell the truth. My mind had been so conditioned to lying as a child, in hopes of escaping a beating and pleasing my dad, that I lied daily to everyone. As an adult I would find myself lying about the smallest things when it didn't matter one way or another. Honestly I think I could beat a lie detector test, it was just so second nature. One example recently was my husband called to see if I had mailed a bill one morning. I hadn't gone out yet but was on track to be out in an hour. But I lied and said yes. He wouldn't have cared if it wasn't mailed yet, another hour would have been a fine answer, he was just reminding me. But I jumped to lying. For a long time I wondered why I lied like that. After I attended some therapies I found the answer. I still find myself doing it, only occasionally, but now I can recognize it and deal with it positively instead of being disappointed with myself for lying. Using the information found in ACoA can be healing or used as a crutch. I guess it's up to each person how they use it, healing or dependence. |
Thank you soberhawk, Kialua and Mike. The forgotten children! How appropriate! :) When I was around 2 years old my nanny used to put me in those huge metal garbage things whenever she took me to the playground, so she could be with her boyfriend. Some neighbors noticed it after a while and told my mother. Of course I don't remember any of it, but my mother tells this story as a funny anecdote. She claims she didn't know the nanny was doing that, and I do believe she didn't. But this story says a lot. I'll have a look at those books, Mike. Thank you again. |
My ESH... Its a choice thing. I know some people who sat on the can and they were much better off. Others took the lid off and kept it off... I am one of the No 2 group- it has been tough- but life was too tough anyway. For me is was a case of TINA- There Is No Alternative. I this would we are basically out here on our own... we will get some help along the way- give a little, take a little... ACA or ACoA is self governing- we all have to pitch in to make things work... :thanks DavidG. |
I'm part of the second group as well. My reasons for it are more for stopping the cycle of abuse with my own children. I've had to dig in and dredge up the sources of my parenting hurdles (being too harsh on my kids and having unrealistic expectations of them) in order to become a better mother. I was a miserable, selfish person, but I always thought I was just a colossal screw-up. I suppressed a lot of the abuse as I got older. Opening the can and confronting these things has allowed me to forgive my AM and forgive myself for my shortcomings, in order to move forward. For me it was necessary. |
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4185568)
Is it really necessary to open the Pandora box to change or adjust the behavioral consequences of a bad childhood? It’s an honest question, I’m not being sarcastic about it nor anything like that. I’m going back to therapy this week and I’m reluctant to dive into these so called traumas and just end up using them as an excuse for my shortcomings, as much as I see alcoholics use the disease card all the time (the “I have a disease!” thing). I don't like the "it's a disease" canard, either. Alkies use it, and Al-Anons use it to say "you can't be angry with him, he has a disease," blah-blah. Here's the deal: Alcoholism is a disease in the sense that some people process alcohol differently from others -- meaning there are physical differences in the way their brain and/or liver actually react to the chemical itself. This has been proven in clinical research -- some of it quite recent. In that regard, alcoholism is a disease. But it does not give them a free pass for being total *******s, which a lot of people will erroneously tell you it does. One of the cliches of the program is, "You are not responsible for your illness, but you are responsible for your recovery." And denying that there's anything going on is not a good way to be responsible for one's recovery, is it? Anyhow, definitely investigate this stuff. But I would recommend finding an ACA (a lot of people call it ACOA) meeting, in addition to therapy. A meeting is different, you'll find out a lot of useful things -- and unlike therapy, it only costs a buck a session! :c033: Good luck.... T |
Thank you, NWGRITs and DavidG. Well, I'm reading a book called Adult Children: the secrets of dysfunctional families. It's quite obvious my family is one. And I see how I am the "lone child" and the "fixer". I dreamed last night I was in a house (my "home", in the dream) situated in the middle of a river, and it started to get very, very hot inside. So hot everyone had to leave the house and go outside. We were standing outside looking at the house and suddenly all insects and little animals started to get out too. Spiders, frogs, flies, mosquitos, cockroaches, even snakes and bats. Oh, worms too :) I thought, in the dream, "Well, at least it's not a fire. Once it cools I'll see what I can salvage". The heat I figure is the rage/anger/fury I've been feeling. I guess at this point it's not a matter of opening the can or not - it's wide open! The important message from the dream is... there's more than just a few worms to pay attention to, and the house is still salvageable. Does it make sense or I'm reading too much into it? Thank you all. |
Yes it does make sense. Your subconscious is speaking loud and clear. Funny isn't it that when we think we can stuff it down and go about our business it just comes out sideways. So yes, the can is open. How you deal with the lid is up to you. Reading that book is a great first step. |
Originally Posted by Biancafp
(Post 4187327)
Thank you, NWGRITs and DavidG. Well, I'm reading a book called Adult Children: the secrets of dysfunctional families. It's quite obvious my family is one. And I see how I am the "lone child" and the "fixer". I dreamed last night I was in a house (my "home", in the dream) situated in the middle of a river, and it started to get very, very hot inside. So hot everyone had to leave the house and go outside. We were standing outside looking at the house and suddenly all insects and little animals started to get out too. Spiders, frogs, flies, mosquitos, cockroaches, even snakes and bats. Oh, worms too :) I thought, in the dream, "Well, at least it's not a fire. Once it cools I'll see what I can salvage". The heat I figure is the rage/anger/fury I've been feeling. I guess at this point it's not a matter of opening the can or not - it's wide open! The important message from the dream is... there's more than just a few worms to pay attention to, and the house is still salvageable. Does it make sense or I'm reading too much into it? Thank you all. |
My interest was perked by your comment that 'most people would identify with these traits' as I thought this too but it has been my experience in recovery that this is not true. I just tended to be drawn to people who had the same upbringing (CRAZY) as me. These days, in social situations, I find if I tell stories about my upbringing most people are rather horrified. I can laugh a lot about my upbringing now at times, as a lot of it was tragically funny, but I certainly spent a lot of years raging and crying about it before I got to this stage. I was at an Al Anon meeting the other day and we were talking about this same thing as most of those woman have had similar experiences to mine and have experienced the same thing in social situations. |
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