Intrepid

I recently discovered this forum and have found it enlightening. A bit of background... My mom is an addict, but strangely I never thought of her in this way until recently. She started abusing drugs when she was 11. Throughout my childhood it was alcohol, cocaine, pot. Then she stopped using street drugs and starting taking xanax and ambien every day. This is has been her routine for the past 15+ years. I did once try telling her that I thought she had a problem with these pills, but she was in total denial, and I pretty much bought all of her excuses.

My mom has a lot of issues. She severely abused me and other children in her life. She has held several people at gunpoint to intimidate or control. She has stolen from just about everyone in our family (in excess of $100,000 from her sisters). She has committed insurance and tax fraud her entire life, as well as unethical business practices such as over-billing clients. She is a pathological liar, and has no remorse or empathy.

I always focused on her narcissistic and antisocial tendencies, thinking of her primarily as someone with a personality disorder. I now think that addiction plays a bigger role than I ever realized though. Not that it matters or changes anything.

I made the difficult decision to cut contact with my mom 3.5 years ago. There was no specific reason other than I was worn out. I felt she was not a good presence in my children's lives, and was tired of setting and maintaining boundaries while she had no respect for me and was constantly pushing or ignoring the boundaries. I don't regret the decision to cut contact. However, sometimes it feels like it takes an awful lot of energy to keep her out of my life. She has actually left me alone for the most part, but the issue is always there with extended family, around holidays, etc. Also, I feel guilty about the whole thing, even though I believe it was in the best interest of my mental health to put distance between us.

Now my husband and I are getting ready to move with our kids about 2000 miles away. I think the physical distance will ease some of the internal pressure that I feel about my mom. Sometimes I think about sending her an email and trying to reconnect a little. I don't think it would be in my kids' best interest to have a relationship with her. She plays so many head games, is opportunistic, and is extremely narcissistic. Yet I feel a certain obligation to acknowledge her and to have even a minimal amount of contact with her as opposed to none. I also think that a little contact *might* be easier than no contact. But then again, maybe I'm fooling myself!

I try to focus on letting go of any expectations when it comes to her. I also am trying to see that I can have some contact with her on my terms. In the past, everything was on her terms, and what she wanted, she got. Ideally there would be mutuality and reciprocity, but it seems my mom's only concept of relationships is with one person being the dominant alpha, and the other person being submissive. She obviously prefers to be in the alpha role, at least with me.

I am wondering if anyone can relate to this experience and has anything to share. I feel conflicted about whether to resume any kind of connection. Part of me thinks that this urge has kicked in because of the upcoming move. Maybe I should wait until after we move, and then make a decision. Truth be told, I have always been kind of scared of my mom. She has a violent history, and even once went so far as to tell me that she wished she could kill me, but that I wasn't worth going to prison over. Then when confronted with this pattern of behavior, she acts totally innocent, and like I am the crazy one making up stories.

Thanks for reading.

Kialua

Wow. With her history of guns and intimidation I would steer clear of her for now, especially with little kids. My alcoholic Dad finally took the gun and threatened to shoot my Mom and went on a rampage that landed him in jail (didn't hurt anyone, thank God). Just to say, our parents are not to be blindly trusted and approached sentimentally, be careful.

Sounds like you have handled it pretty well and now might be getting sentimental because of your upcoming move. Send an occasional card after you move, without a return address or phone number, maybe get a PO box.

And welcome, I think you will find people that understand here.

Intrepid

Thanks for your reply Kialua. It's helpful to hear other people's responses to my mom's behavior because for most of my life, even though I knew she was not normal, sometimes it's still difficult for me to gauge just how abnormal her behavior was/is.

It's also confusing because of all the times that she said things like "but I would never hurt my grandkids," "that was in the past, what am I supposed to do, be lashed a thousand times?" Even though she always says that this stuff was in the past, the reality is that a lot of it is still going on. True, she has not physically abused me in 17 years, but only because the last time she beat me, I told her "no more" and moved to another state. She is still obsessed with firearms, and spends time every day training in mixed martial arts. She loves to brag about how she can "kick ass." Honestly, writing this all out helps me to see everything more clearly than just thinking about it in my head.

I like your idea of sending her a card without our home address every now and then after we move.

I am fairly certain that no good would come from reconnecting with her...for her or for me. She is obsessed with my kids, and that is one area where I won't allow her to go. It will help after we are gone, and I won't have my grandmother crying about our estrangement every time I see her, or other extended family pushing me to "forgive" my mother (forgiveness in their eyes means letting my mom back into mine and my kids' lives).

This forum is so helpful. There is a lot that I can relate to in the threads, and it's validating to hear other people talk about such a familiar inner-experience. Nice to know I'm not alone, as much as I would never wish growing up with this type of parent on anyone.

Intrepid

Also, just wanted to add about this process that I am experiencing. When I first cut ties with my mom, I was filled with anger and sadness, but I did not feel at the time that there was any other option. I had tried everything I could think of trying to make things work (therapy, offering to pay for her to go to therapy or for us to go together, setting boundaries, etc). After the initial flood of emotions, I enjoyed her absence very much. I felt liberated, and it was a period of reframing things from the past, a time of self-exploration, and generally enjoying life - especially my children - without my mom's interference. Now that we are moving, I guess it feels like a certain finality, like I may never see her again. I am not sure how I feel about this. Honestly, I don't particularly want to see her. I can't help but wonder, however, about how everything will unfold as she ages, and when she passes away. Will I have regrets? I miss the idea of a mom more than I actually miss my mom. On another thread, someone linked to a song called "The Living Years," and that really struck a chord. *sigh*

farfaraway

I live far away from my family and I have only very loose contact. As a kid I was mostly ignored by my parents, so my situation was not so violent as yours. My parents don't own firearms and are not in good physical shape. I just stayed out of the way. But my sister got beat by my dad quite often. And later turned to drugs.

I also struggle with keeping in contact or not. Every time I speak to my family it leaves me feeling bad about myself. And I also have relatives who think I am wrong for not contacting my family as much as they think I should. I have no contact at all with my drug addict sister. The family thinks that is very harsh.

But they are all miserable and I am happy!

Ask yourself where does this desire to have contact come from? It probably does not come from any feeling for your mother, the person. Or from a desire to have your actual mother involved in your kids' lives. More likely it comes from longing for your mother to be like "everyone else's" mother and grandmother. But the people who post in this forum didn't get parents like that...

For me, it's often social pressure that keeps me in contact with the family. It's "wrong" to not talk to your own mother. A "good daughter" should want that. No one ever stops to wonder what must be wrong with the mother....

But the people who are the first to say it's wrong to not speak to your mother are usually people who do not have violent addicts for parents. And so they'll never understand will they?

It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing by keeping no contact with your mother. I would wait until you are moved and settled in before you do anything about this situation. Chances are absolutely nothing has changed in the years since you've had contact. There's no point in involving your kids in that, and there's nothing to regret either!

dollydo

My mother is the "A" in my life, she is an alcoholic, been drinking daily (manhattans, lots of them) for 66 years. She is abusive, nasty and a big time manipulator. When I was a child, she was both verbally & physically abusive.

I am no contact with her, yet again, this is the third time in my adult life, once for 10 years, the
happiest and most peaceful years of my life.

Some people are just toxic, my mother is one of them. There is nothing that can be done with her, the only person in the family who still talks to her is my brother, her favorite...although he
only talks to her when he has to...she has recently started to turn ugly on him.

IMO, you are doing the right thing for your family...it is difficult at first, however, as time goes by, you regain you, your peace & happiness and it becomes much easier.

We are here for you!

Kialua

You are doing the right thing with your kids, not letting them go to your Mom. I know I had to do the same thing. I never once let my kid go to my parents. Not once.

It does seem final now but you can send cards and when you want you could Facetime and talk and let her see the kids. But that is your total control. If she gets creepy about guns and control you can just say, "Gotta run, talk to you later."

Enjoy your move, it will be a whole new life.

Intrepid

Thanks for sharing your perspective farfaraway. Do you think you would cut contact completely with your mother if it weren't for the pressure from your family? I understand about the family pressure, and the general pressure from society. It's tough when people ask about my parents. I usually just say that we are not very close, and most people leave it alone.

Thanks for the encouragement in staying out of contact. I agree it's the right thing. Like you, I always felt awful after interactions with my mother. I even feel that way after interactions with most everyone from my family of origin, so I avoid seeing / talking to everyone else as much as possible too.

P.S. I am really glad to hear you say that you are happy

Dollydo, thank you for your kind words and support! It's crazy that our lives are more peaceful and happy without our moms than with them. Thanks for the encouragement. I think you're right that it's better for me not to contact my mom. I would never let her into my kids' lives, but I am pretty sure that if she were in my life, even on a limited basis, that it would affect me negatively in a big way, and I fear that it would in turn ripple out and affect my husband and children.

Thanks Kialua! I agree with you 100% about the kids. When my oldest was born, my mom was coming over every day (driving me nuts). It became clear pretty quickly that she was incapable of having a healthy relationship with her grandchild. She was really pushy about wanting me to leave my daughter with her, and I finally had to tell her that it wasn't going to happen. I thought I could manage her with my daughter through setting boundaries, but like dollydo said, some people are just toxic and there is nothing that can be done with them.

What do you tell your kids about your mom? Mine are still pretty young and haven't asked any questions. I doubt that it will ever be a very big deal to them, especially since we are moving to where their other grandparents, who they have a very strong bond with, live. But I still feel kind of anxious about what to tell them whenever the question about my mom's whereabouts arises.

Kialua

You can read my blog found here under my name to the left. But I didn't tell my kid anything about my life till she was much older almost 12th grade and I think I should have waited even then. I read that it's not their burden to bear what happened to us as kids. They are so susceptible that they take on the care and feeding of your emotional health then and they are simply not equipped for that and it easily overwhelms them.

They don't need to know the truth you are under no obligation. Tell them anything you want, "she's busy" is enough if said with no emotion from you. My daughter didn't care because my in laws were so great to her. Only after growing up did she see the real difference.

If you read through my blogs here, you will see that at a very young age I emotionally disconnected from my parents, 3 years old. I thought "these people are nuts and I will never be like them, I will never treat kids like this and I can't wait to grow up and leave". So as I grew up being beat daily I focused on leaving at 18. I did have a surface relationship with my folks balancing being polite with keeping my physical and emotional distance focused on what was good for me.

Intrepid

I will definitely check out your blog. Thanks for the advice on how to handle questions when / if they come up from my kids. It makes sense not to burden them. Glad to hear that your kids have one good set of grandparents. I married into a good / normal family too, and am grateful!

farfaraway

Hi Intrepid,
About my mother -
She isn't an alcoholic or addicted to drugs. In my family, my father was/is an alcoholic. He quit drinking years ago, but never did a program or got help. He just stopped drinking one day and never drank again. But he's hateful and abusive, apparently just like his hateful abusive alcoholic father was to him. We barely speak.

My mother stayed with my father only for the money, and let him abuse us all, including herself. And led us to believe that our father acts the way he does because we make him angry. After a number of years my mother just stopped trying. We lived in squalor. She never cooked or cleaned or showed us how to do these things ourselves. She started to work nights in order to get out of the house. My father would also work until late. And so I was left alone in our filthy house to take care of my two younger siblings.

Eventually my sister started to use drugs, and my mother tried to keep her drug abuse a secret from everyone for years. When my sister stole my money or beat me up, it was my fault for not staying out of her way, or not securing my valuables. Today, I have no contact at all with my sister. My sister had a baby recently, and my family is very upset that I still want nothing to do with her.

But with my mother, for me the situation is not so clear cut... I see her very much as a victim. Her sins, if you will, were sins of omission.

The reason why I feel so lousy when I speak to her is because nothing much has changed. I'm her daughter, I live six time zones away, and it's like pulling teeth to keep her on the phone for ten minutes with me. She's just not interested in what I have to say, and she has nothing interesting to say. I think she's a typical codependent. Her two qualifiers are my sister and father, and she has nothing left for me. Is that enough to break off contact forever? This is a question I ask myself every time I get off the phone with her.

Intrepid

Farfaraway, I can understand the apathy that you feel toward your mom. I feel the same way toward most people in my family who stood by and did nothing throughout my years of abuse. They are the same people who now apologize for not intervening when I was a child, but who still enable my mother and who will invite her to gatherings but not me, since I am the one who cut contact with her (therefore they see her as a victim). There's nothing positive in those relationships, but I don't have the emotional energy that it takes to cut contact with them, because I don't feel strongly enough about them.

It's probably more complicated with your mom, because she's your mom, and that's one of the most significant relationship in our lives. The neglect that you described brings a feeling of knots in my stomach. You have incredible insight to see her as a codependent, but she let you down in so many ways, and continues to do so. I hope you give yourself all the nurturing in the world, because it's what you deserve.

It sounds like living so far away is best for you. I think that physical distance can make an incredible difference when it comes to dysfunctional families. Some say that a person can't run away from his / her problems, but I think in these situations, it is possible. I am fairly certain that if I lived far away from my mother when my children were born, then we probably would still have contact, even if only minimal. Living ten minutes apart from her was just too much.