Will I ever stop asking the same questions?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Will I ever stop asking the same questions?
My emotions are all over the map the last 24 hours.
Last night, I ran into my mother unexpectedly (she's the codie, but in her way worse than my AF). She ignored me, as she has done for several years now. Yes, I ignored her, too, but this stuff aways leaves me feeling two ways.
1) What mother does this??? As a mother, if my child quit speaking to me, I'd at least ask why. My mother doesn't actually appear to have ever noticed that I just never called her again after one particular visit. Nothing at all happened out of the ordinary, it's not like we had a fight or anything dramatic. I just left another visit with more of the same old same old, knowing I was through. I never called, and what I learned was that my mother never would have made any attempt all these years if I hadn't. I can't imagine doing this to my children. I would notice if my kids hadn't spoken to me in several years and I'd darn well ask what's going on and try to fix it!
And
2) What in the world did I do that she doesn't want to talk to me? We had no fight. No ugly words. I brought her a birthday present and stayed to visit. She was negative and critical and complaining. I tried to change the conversation to more positive things. As I was leaving, I mentioned talking to someone who had greatly wronged me, getting her answer as to why, and finding out it was near-madness, this woman's reasons. I had hoped my mother would give some sign of regret that she had immediately blamed me for these events, saying I must have done something to this woman. My mother shrugged it off, stuck with her attitude that I deserved this treatment, although my mother was 2,000 miles away and didn't even know this person. Still...just a casual conversation. So I'm left with yet again, the question, what in the world have I ever done to this woman to make her do and say the things she does and says, to and about, me? I know I've done nothing to deserve this. I know it's typical dysfunctional family patterns, yet I keep coming back to that question. :-(
Half an hour after seeing her unexpectedly and being blown off again, I came home to see my children just home from college, and they immediately walked out the door to go visit her.
The two incidents, one on top of the other, brought me right back to my fears of my family turning my children against me with their negative, untrue character assassinations on me.
I've been feeling better today, but still stressed, angry, resentful that I have been left alone to deal with so many things, that I'm dealing with so much not only alone, but with my family sitting on the sidelines throwing stones, when other people have families to support them.
Yeah, I guess I'm indulging in a little self pity and fear today, and back to wondering if we ever permanently get over this.
Last night, I ran into my mother unexpectedly (she's the codie, but in her way worse than my AF). She ignored me, as she has done for several years now. Yes, I ignored her, too, but this stuff aways leaves me feeling two ways.
1) What mother does this??? As a mother, if my child quit speaking to me, I'd at least ask why. My mother doesn't actually appear to have ever noticed that I just never called her again after one particular visit. Nothing at all happened out of the ordinary, it's not like we had a fight or anything dramatic. I just left another visit with more of the same old same old, knowing I was through. I never called, and what I learned was that my mother never would have made any attempt all these years if I hadn't. I can't imagine doing this to my children. I would notice if my kids hadn't spoken to me in several years and I'd darn well ask what's going on and try to fix it!
And
2) What in the world did I do that she doesn't want to talk to me? We had no fight. No ugly words. I brought her a birthday present and stayed to visit. She was negative and critical and complaining. I tried to change the conversation to more positive things. As I was leaving, I mentioned talking to someone who had greatly wronged me, getting her answer as to why, and finding out it was near-madness, this woman's reasons. I had hoped my mother would give some sign of regret that she had immediately blamed me for these events, saying I must have done something to this woman. My mother shrugged it off, stuck with her attitude that I deserved this treatment, although my mother was 2,000 miles away and didn't even know this person. Still...just a casual conversation. So I'm left with yet again, the question, what in the world have I ever done to this woman to make her do and say the things she does and says, to and about, me? I know I've done nothing to deserve this. I know it's typical dysfunctional family patterns, yet I keep coming back to that question. :-(
Half an hour after seeing her unexpectedly and being blown off again, I came home to see my children just home from college, and they immediately walked out the door to go visit her.
The two incidents, one on top of the other, brought me right back to my fears of my family turning my children against me with their negative, untrue character assassinations on me.
I've been feeling better today, but still stressed, angry, resentful that I have been left alone to deal with so many things, that I'm dealing with so much not only alone, but with my family sitting on the sidelines throwing stones, when other people have families to support them.
Yeah, I guess I'm indulging in a little self pity and fear today, and back to wondering if we ever permanently get over this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
I went out to dinner with a friend. We talked at some length, he treated me to wonderful food and wine, and reminded me that some people are just crazy. I feel much better. And sometimes, it does help just to remember that there are no answers. She talks about her childhood and I think she was born bitter and resentful and feeling the victim. Some mild mental illness that had no name in the 40s? I don't know. Maybe tonight I can be back to having compassion for her, and praying that she'd find some peace, as I usually do.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
If I was a guessing sort of person, this is what I'd guess at:
You're thinking like a healthy person, not like a codie. Codie's won't do anything to rock the boat, and if something has happened and they don't understand why, they won't ask because the answer might do just that.
You didn't do anything. She doesn't want to know why you're not talking to her (see above) and *any* communication would open her up to that possible answer.
My therapist once told me that not all crazy is in me, sometimes the crazy is outside of me (I just assume that if I'm struggling with a person, it's because of a lack of skills on my part - she was pointing out that sometimes the crazy is not a lack of skills on my part, it's just crazy coming from the other person).
Sometimes the crazy is outside of you, Rose.
Gin
As a mother, if my child quit speaking to me, I'd at least ask why.
What in the world did I do that she doesn't want to talk to me?
My therapist once told me that not all crazy is in me, sometimes the crazy is outside of me (I just assume that if I'm struggling with a person, it's because of a lack of skills on my part - she was pointing out that sometimes the crazy is not a lack of skills on my part, it's just crazy coming from the other person).
Sometimes the crazy is outside of you, Rose.
Gin
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 63
EveningRose,
This is why I'm not a fan of no-contact. I understand why it's done in abusive situations. But it doesn't resolve the anger, frustration and other emotions we have.
Are you working a program? I like the ACA program but I supplement it with Al-anon. Someone said recently that Al-anon is about relationships, it's good for everyone.
In my experience incidents like this are mind-boggling. And they often leave me spinning because they stir up the abandonment issues.
I've also done the family of origin work through ACA. And it's pretty clear that my mother can't do what she wasn't taught. And her own anxieties leave her unable to breakthrough and act differently. Sometimes I can get to the point of compassion and go ok right - why do I expect anything different.
But still the old wounds get touched on easily.
I think I will quit asking the same questions - at least this is my hope by working my ACA program. Lots of therapy. But quite frankly I don't think we quit asking the questions until we start acting differently ourselves.
Best wishes.
Vicki
This is why I'm not a fan of no-contact. I understand why it's done in abusive situations. But it doesn't resolve the anger, frustration and other emotions we have.
Are you working a program? I like the ACA program but I supplement it with Al-anon. Someone said recently that Al-anon is about relationships, it's good for everyone.
In my experience incidents like this are mind-boggling. And they often leave me spinning because they stir up the abandonment issues.
I've also done the family of origin work through ACA. And it's pretty clear that my mother can't do what she wasn't taught. And her own anxieties leave her unable to breakthrough and act differently. Sometimes I can get to the point of compassion and go ok right - why do I expect anything different.
But still the old wounds get touched on easily.
I think I will quit asking the same questions - at least this is my hope by working my ACA program. Lots of therapy. But quite frankly I don't think we quit asking the questions until we start acting differently ourselves.
Best wishes.
Vicki
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by VickiACA 
EveningRose,
This is why I'm not a fan of no-contact. I understand why it's done in abusive situations. But it doesn't resolve the anger, frustration and other emotions we have.
This is why I'm not a fan of no-contact. I understand why it's done in abusive situations. But it doesn't resolve the anger, frustration and other emotions we have.
I would like it if I could one day simply pay the duty-visits and let the ugliness all roll off my back. However, it's not one person being ugly. It's an entire group of people treating each other half-way decently and aiming the ugliness at me. At this stage, I'm not going to be the focal point of their screaming rages.
I've also done the family of origin work through ACA. And it's pretty clear that my mother can't do what she wasn't taught. And her own anxieties leave her unable to breakthrough and act differently. Sometimes I can get to the point of compassion and go ok right - why do I expect anything different.
As you say though, sometimes those feelings of abandonment suddenly leap up.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
I have forgotten if or why you can't move away. Don't you work from home? I would move to at least the next town yesterday, if not further. Worried you kids would choose them over you? At least they would show up to visit you and you wouldn't have to share them daily with the relatives. If they wanted to the relatives they would have to make a separate trip.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
I can, in theory, move at least to another town. It's a matter of time and money to fix up and sell my home and find another one I can afford. It's something I'm slowly working toward, actually, and have even looked at a couple of houses.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Wow that's great news. Not that I am offering the 'geographical cure', I think you are beyond that. But it would be nice to put some distance between you and the relatives so you wouldn't have to run into them so often just doing the odd chore.
I understand about fixing up to sell, I am in the same boat. Lots to do. I have a lot bought and now have to do. One thing I learned from my alcoholic Dad was to move, we moved almost every year, in the same metro area but far enough to be a new town. He would announce on a Sunday that we were going to drive around and look for a new house and off we would go. Sometimes now when I am bored I go for rides through new areas and look up real estate. Probably a bad habit but it's ingrained nonetheless but I've only moved three times in the last 40 years.
Maybe we should have a remodel thread LOL.
I understand about fixing up to sell, I am in the same boat. Lots to do. I have a lot bought and now have to do. One thing I learned from my alcoholic Dad was to move, we moved almost every year, in the same metro area but far enough to be a new town. He would announce on a Sunday that we were going to drive around and look for a new house and off we would go. Sometimes now when I am bored I go for rides through new areas and look up real estate. Probably a bad habit but it's ingrained nonetheless but I've only moved three times in the last 40 years.
Maybe we should have a remodel thread LOL.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I'm quite impressed at the recovery I see shining through your posts, Rose.
You've recognized what they're doing to you, you've admitted that you don't want to be a part of it or get sucked into their crazy any more and you've found a way that works for you to avoid it.
Keep on doing what you're doing, and you'll get there!
Gin
You've recognized what they're doing to you, you've admitted that you don't want to be a part of it or get sucked into their crazy any more and you've found a way that works for you to avoid it.
Keep on doing what you're doing, and you'll get there!
Gin
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Rose you will be fine...what a process of learning and getting something, which then brings on more learning and changing within.
I haven’t spoke to my mother in months. I really don’t see why I should call. For some reason again, and they are never known when I was she was short, and rushed me off the phone, huffing like it was inconvenience that I called…my favorite was the pissed off tone with that why are you calling … hmmm ok, cause you are my mother and I want to see if you are ok, or need anything. It isn’t like when I asked what was wrong she would answer. Hell I don’t think I ever really did anything, that her reactions to me no matter what they were , were all about her. It got to be sick where I was timing the calls, how many seconds I could keep her on the phone, or how fast she said we are fine goodbye. Her record was I think 15 seconds and then the hang up.
She is an abusive woman and my father is in complete denial about how she is and doesn’t at all rock the boat to call her on her ********. I don’t blame him, he has to live with her, I don’t. I find I am not mad at her at all, this is how she is, and I have accepted that and have my own boundaries.
I was asked not to long ago when I might call my parents. I did not respond. And I had to laugh, no one calls here. It isn’t a power struggle of who will be first. I was always first, to smooth it out, but she is a sick woman and I have no need to play the game anymore. And this is some sick game …
Don’t worry about your children, they are not stupid and will see through any guise. Just love them as you wished you were, and listen and be patient with them. Really that is what love is all about.
I am so non emotional about it now and frankly have more peace in my life for it.
I found the biggest struggle for me is the why, why would a mother be like this, but then I have to remember not all the questions we ask have answers, maybe there is no real reason but that this is her. A product of her life as a child that she didn’t heal. History is definitely repeating itself, which is something I didn’t want to give her. I always stepped in to not have the pattern repeat, as if I had control over stopping that. Again it is her that needs this. The chaos and dysfunction to survive and be ok I do not and have opted out.
I will see her with family in a few days. I am trying hard not to start playing the scenarios in my head…All that own worst enemy stuff.
Here’s to not missing a thing and enjoying the moments that really matter in each day!
Oh and that might be important. In the work I find we concentrate so much on the bad and forget the good. I remember a time where she left me bleeding for days….but what came out of that behind the scenes probably saved my life. If it hadn’t happened would I have got the love and lessons I needed through another who essentially became my second mother. Would this woman have taken the time to listen to me, to guide me, to lift me up … would she have been the voice in my head above the insanity when I was done now and going to take myself out of existence. I doubt it. And when I got this lessons I went back and looked at all those things that haunted me and found all the good that came from them in time, be it a lesson learned, a life long friend … there was always something good there, that seems to be more suited for our focus.
Merry Merry ... Ho Ho Ho!
I haven’t spoke to my mother in months. I really don’t see why I should call. For some reason again, and they are never known when I was she was short, and rushed me off the phone, huffing like it was inconvenience that I called…my favorite was the pissed off tone with that why are you calling … hmmm ok, cause you are my mother and I want to see if you are ok, or need anything. It isn’t like when I asked what was wrong she would answer. Hell I don’t think I ever really did anything, that her reactions to me no matter what they were , were all about her. It got to be sick where I was timing the calls, how many seconds I could keep her on the phone, or how fast she said we are fine goodbye. Her record was I think 15 seconds and then the hang up.
She is an abusive woman and my father is in complete denial about how she is and doesn’t at all rock the boat to call her on her ********. I don’t blame him, he has to live with her, I don’t. I find I am not mad at her at all, this is how she is, and I have accepted that and have my own boundaries.
I was asked not to long ago when I might call my parents. I did not respond. And I had to laugh, no one calls here. It isn’t a power struggle of who will be first. I was always first, to smooth it out, but she is a sick woman and I have no need to play the game anymore. And this is some sick game …
Don’t worry about your children, they are not stupid and will see through any guise. Just love them as you wished you were, and listen and be patient with them. Really that is what love is all about.
I am so non emotional about it now and frankly have more peace in my life for it.
I found the biggest struggle for me is the why, why would a mother be like this, but then I have to remember not all the questions we ask have answers, maybe there is no real reason but that this is her. A product of her life as a child that she didn’t heal. History is definitely repeating itself, which is something I didn’t want to give her. I always stepped in to not have the pattern repeat, as if I had control over stopping that. Again it is her that needs this. The chaos and dysfunction to survive and be ok I do not and have opted out.
I will see her with family in a few days. I am trying hard not to start playing the scenarios in my head…All that own worst enemy stuff.
Here’s to not missing a thing and enjoying the moments that really matter in each day!
Oh and that might be important. In the work I find we concentrate so much on the bad and forget the good. I remember a time where she left me bleeding for days….but what came out of that behind the scenes probably saved my life. If it hadn’t happened would I have got the love and lessons I needed through another who essentially became my second mother. Would this woman have taken the time to listen to me, to guide me, to lift me up … would she have been the voice in my head above the insanity when I was done now and going to take myself out of existence. I doubt it. And when I got this lessons I went back and looked at all those things that haunted me and found all the good that came from them in time, be it a lesson learned, a life long friend … there was always something good there, that seems to be more suited for our focus.
Merry Merry ... Ho Ho Ho!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Thank you, Ginger, for your encouragement, and thank you Inciting Silence, for your story. I find it healing to read the same stories coming from all the other dysfunctional families. It confirms for me that I'm not crazy and gives me a roadmap to follow.
I can relate to this. I used to go to great effort, when we lived far away, to visit, so the kids and grandparents could have a relationship with each other. She always acted put out about us being there and at that time I really couldn't believe that. Now I understand she truly did not want us there. How I wish I'd understood that to begin with. I would have saved us all so much time, money, and heartache.
People keep reassuring me of this, including all who know me and them. It's hard to do, and it's hard to see my family smothering them with love while making sure I know I'm expendable if I don't agree to their demands and the role assigned to me as family scapegoat. They did come home from a recent visit mentioning that their grandmother apparently dislikes someone because she had been 'imitating' someone--you know how people do that. It's ugly behavior. I always hated it when she'd do that (and she did it a lot). Yes, they do see this stuff.
Most days, I'm pretty okay with it and good at leading my own life. I think holidays are hard.
Today, one of my siblings, who has very strong opinions and is happy to share them, sent me a Christmas card addressed to my married name--which has not been my legal name for well over a year. I can only guess that she has decided for herself that I am still married because marriage is forever, and therefore she will continue to address me by that name regardless of what I or anyone else says my name is. And if I made an issue of this, she would still not get why I have any reason to object to anything, but should just quit 'being stubborn' and do as I'm told by her and the family to do.
Originally Posted by incitingsilence
and rushed me off the phone, huffing like it was inconvenience that I called…my favorite was the pissed off tone with that why are you calling
Don’t worry about your children, they are not stupid and will see through any guise. Just love them as you wished you were, and listen and be patient with them. Really that is what love is all about.
I am so non emotional about it now and frankly have more peace in my life for it.
Today, one of my siblings, who has very strong opinions and is happy to share them, sent me a Christmas card addressed to my married name--which has not been my legal name for well over a year. I can only guess that she has decided for herself that I am still married because marriage is forever, and therefore she will continue to address me by that name regardless of what I or anyone else says my name is. And if I made an issue of this, she would still not get why I have any reason to object to anything, but should just quit 'being stubborn' and do as I'm told by her and the family to do.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,235
Family. A sad as it is, I had to make a
decision to divorce myself from all the
dysfunction in my families, except for
my recovery, AA, fellowship family support.
That one, in all my other families, family
of orgin, in-laws, biological, X and my own
2 kids, is the most healthier one for me to be
a part of.
In recovery, healthiness, happiness,
peacefullness, serenity, honesty is
a major part of me staying sober today.
When I got sick and tired of trying to
explain who and what I was, an alcoholic
in recovery, then it was time to separate
myself from the sickness, misunderstanding,
lack of understanding and acceptance, and
continue on my own recovery journey with
graditude, gratefullness, love and acceptance
with each passing day without them.
Today I may not have them physically
around me, but have placed them in
the Proper loving hands of my HP for
care.
decision to divorce myself from all the
dysfunction in my families, except for
my recovery, AA, fellowship family support.
That one, in all my other families, family
of orgin, in-laws, biological, X and my own
2 kids, is the most healthier one for me to be
a part of.
In recovery, healthiness, happiness,
peacefullness, serenity, honesty is
a major part of me staying sober today.
When I got sick and tired of trying to
explain who and what I was, an alcoholic
in recovery, then it was time to separate
myself from the sickness, misunderstanding,
lack of understanding and acceptance, and
continue on my own recovery journey with
graditude, gratefullness, love and acceptance
with each passing day without them.
Today I may not have them physically
around me, but have placed them in
the Proper loving hands of my HP for
care.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,348
Thank you for this thread ER, I'm in recovery and just starting to learn about ACA. Unfortunately I live right around the corner from my mother, so there is no escaping her, especially on the holidays. I just had an overwhelmingly atrocious afternoon/night there and I'm so grateful to be home and on SR. These posts helps me realize I'm not alone, that there are many of us out there, and that we don't have to live this crazy-making drama anymore. Next year we'll bring our gifts over, maybe have a cup of coffee, then it's out the door!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
foodie, I think this was a major turning point for me, finding this forum, and finding one story after another Just. Like. Mine. that showed me I was NOT crazy, NOT imagining it all, NOT stupidly misinterpreting everything, NOT having a victim mentality or a persecution complex. When I saw it in other people's stories, I saw much more clearly what was really going on.
We live a mile from my parents. Mostly, kids aren't motivated enough to walk there, but the older kids will drive. I actually rarely see my parents around town, except for at chuch (and actually, not even then so much.) But when I do, they ignore me. In a way, this is best. They're not going to say anything productive anyway, and I get tired of the pretend everything is fine routine when it clearly is not.
We live a mile from my parents. Mostly, kids aren't motivated enough to walk there, but the older kids will drive. I actually rarely see my parents around town, except for at chuch (and actually, not even then so much.) But when I do, they ignore me. In a way, this is best. They're not going to say anything productive anyway, and I get tired of the pretend everything is fine routine when it clearly is not.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,826
Evening rose, I don't have any answers for you but I am grateful you Are here and that our sr family is a source of strength and comfort to you.
I wish you peace.
There's no fixing crazy, in my opinion. One of my fave Internet memes from this year is: "I don't have time for your 5 pounds of crazy in a 2 pound bag"
That makes me giggle. To be clear, I'm talking about our sick family members, not you or me or any of us here on this thread!
I wish you peace.
There's no fixing crazy, in my opinion. One of my fave Internet memes from this year is: "I don't have time for your 5 pounds of crazy in a 2 pound bag"
That makes me giggle. To be clear, I'm talking about our sick family members, not you or me or any of us here on this thread!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by frances2011
"I don't have time for your 5 pounds of crazy in a 2 pound bag"
That makes me giggle.
That makes me giggle.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
it's hard to see my family smothering them with love while making sure I know I'm expendable if I don't agree to their demands and the role assigned to me as family scapegoat
Something to think about. Love does not have strings attached, nor does it have a goal in mind. Love exists because it exists, there is no ulterior motive.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by GingerM
I must admit that I wonder if I were to come in as an outsider, would I see your family smothering them with love, or would I see your family manipulating them using the tools they have.
Something to think about. Love does not have strings attached, nor does it have a goal in mind. Love exists because it exists, there is no ulterior motive.
Something to think about. Love does not have strings attached, nor does it have a goal in mind. Love exists because it exists, there is no ulterior motive.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
