Officially joining the holiday-haters (does it ever end?)
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Officially joining the holiday-haters (does it ever end?)
Today, Thanksgiving, was the worst day probably of the entire past 18 months, 2 years, or even more, which time, btw, includes going through a divorce.
First--the "I'm never wrong" of the alcoholic parent was mentioned in e-mail to my father. I'm sure it's been mentioned plenty of times around here.
Does it skip a generation? Have I unwittingly been behaving like this with my kids and failed to realize I'm doing so and passed it on to them?
Long story short, one child did something relatively minor, but rude, wrong, and un-called-for to another, who objected strongly. Neither would back down, leading me to take one shopping with me to separate them and give some cooling off time. Attempts to talk calmly about it 45 minutes later led to more melt-downs, tantrums, and said child deciding to walk to my parents.
End result, I tried to talk to each child individually about their parts in this, both are standing firm that they did nothing at all wrong, that it's the others' fault, and both accusing me of allowing the other to get away with everything.
How hard is it to say, "Okay, yes, I shouldn't have done that?" or "I'm sorry." I'm so damn sick of a lifetime of turning the other cheek, shrugging things off, forgiving, trying to be the peacemaker, only to see my kids acting just like my father and the rest of my family.
The ensuing trouble led to a many-hours long uproar with me looking for my daughter, forgetting I had $50 worth of cold food sitting in the car, my daughter essentially saying maybe I'm lying about having repeatedly dealt with her brother about his provocations, accusations (false) that I kicked my daughter out, giving new fodder to my family to use against me, an older son going to my parents to get my daughter, not bringing her home and when I called, informing me he'd bring her home if SHE felt like it, and finally my daughter coming home with her beautiful tail-bone length hair chopped off to less than mid-back by my sisters, at my parents' house.
There was my smart-mouth teenage son standing on his high horse that I've taken their 'family' away from them (ie, grandparents, aunts, uncles). He freely admits he wouldn't spend holidays with people who behaved to him as these people have to me. I detailed for him the ugly words, physical violence, night in jail for domestic abuse, the phone calls and vulgar language and e-mails that my family does in hiding where the kids don't see. He agreed he wouldn't spend time with people doing that to him, but no apology. I guess I'm just a piece of crap who deserves to be treated like that so everyone else can have what they want?
The trouble-instigator finally apologized only after a word from his older brother. We had a half-way cheerful dinner, me, the kids, their dad. So then the two at odds are good friends, cheerful, and happy, and expect everything to be fine. Usually, as soon as peace returns, I am fine. This time I'm not. They asked, "Is something wrong?" I exploded, YES, something's wrong!
I'm angry. I've generally had a very good relationship with all my kids, very good, but today it was kids being rude and defying me at every turn, letting me know they're right and that's that and they'll do exactly as they please.
I'm angry, I'm furious, and right now, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. Is there any hope they're not going to all go the way of my father, insisting they're right no matter how obnoxious and wrong they've been? Is there any hope one day they'll see these people for what they really are or am I doomed to be considered the trouble-maker even by my own children for not putting up with this ugly behavior?
Dammit, I'm mid-40's, I have earned advanced degrees (yes, plural), achieved success and respect both personally and professionally from a great many people, I do everything in my power to live with grace, is it too damn much to ask my family to quit treating me like a recalcitrant, screw-up, trouble-making child when I have done nothing to deserve that????? I have walked away from their trouble every time, shrugged it off, tried to live at peace, and up until this last time, freely forgiven and let by-gones be gones every single time they just stopped the behavior. Never so much as asked for an apology.
Right now, tonight, I see no light at the end of this tunnel.
First--the "I'm never wrong" of the alcoholic parent was mentioned in e-mail to my father. I'm sure it's been mentioned plenty of times around here.
Does it skip a generation? Have I unwittingly been behaving like this with my kids and failed to realize I'm doing so and passed it on to them?
Long story short, one child did something relatively minor, but rude, wrong, and un-called-for to another, who objected strongly. Neither would back down, leading me to take one shopping with me to separate them and give some cooling off time. Attempts to talk calmly about it 45 minutes later led to more melt-downs, tantrums, and said child deciding to walk to my parents.
End result, I tried to talk to each child individually about their parts in this, both are standing firm that they did nothing at all wrong, that it's the others' fault, and both accusing me of allowing the other to get away with everything.
How hard is it to say, "Okay, yes, I shouldn't have done that?" or "I'm sorry." I'm so damn sick of a lifetime of turning the other cheek, shrugging things off, forgiving, trying to be the peacemaker, only to see my kids acting just like my father and the rest of my family.
The ensuing trouble led to a many-hours long uproar with me looking for my daughter, forgetting I had $50 worth of cold food sitting in the car, my daughter essentially saying maybe I'm lying about having repeatedly dealt with her brother about his provocations, accusations (false) that I kicked my daughter out, giving new fodder to my family to use against me, an older son going to my parents to get my daughter, not bringing her home and when I called, informing me he'd bring her home if SHE felt like it, and finally my daughter coming home with her beautiful tail-bone length hair chopped off to less than mid-back by my sisters, at my parents' house.
There was my smart-mouth teenage son standing on his high horse that I've taken their 'family' away from them (ie, grandparents, aunts, uncles). He freely admits he wouldn't spend holidays with people who behaved to him as these people have to me. I detailed for him the ugly words, physical violence, night in jail for domestic abuse, the phone calls and vulgar language and e-mails that my family does in hiding where the kids don't see. He agreed he wouldn't spend time with people doing that to him, but no apology. I guess I'm just a piece of crap who deserves to be treated like that so everyone else can have what they want?
The trouble-instigator finally apologized only after a word from his older brother. We had a half-way cheerful dinner, me, the kids, their dad. So then the two at odds are good friends, cheerful, and happy, and expect everything to be fine. Usually, as soon as peace returns, I am fine. This time I'm not. They asked, "Is something wrong?" I exploded, YES, something's wrong!
I'm angry. I've generally had a very good relationship with all my kids, very good, but today it was kids being rude and defying me at every turn, letting me know they're right and that's that and they'll do exactly as they please.
I'm angry, I'm furious, and right now, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. Is there any hope they're not going to all go the way of my father, insisting they're right no matter how obnoxious and wrong they've been? Is there any hope one day they'll see these people for what they really are or am I doomed to be considered the trouble-maker even by my own children for not putting up with this ugly behavior?
Dammit, I'm mid-40's, I have earned advanced degrees (yes, plural), achieved success and respect both personally and professionally from a great many people, I do everything in my power to live with grace, is it too damn much to ask my family to quit treating me like a recalcitrant, screw-up, trouble-making child when I have done nothing to deserve that????? I have walked away from their trouble every time, shrugged it off, tried to live at peace, and up until this last time, freely forgiven and let by-gones be gones every single time they just stopped the behavior. Never so much as asked for an apology.
Right now, tonight, I see no light at the end of this tunnel.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
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"Right now, tonight, I see no light at the end of this tunnel."
Well, hopefully...someday... they will all be on their own...and...you can just lock your door and have a quiet, peaceful turkey dinner!
So very sorry for all the needless drama.
Well, hopefully...someday... they will all be on their own...and...you can just lock your door and have a quiet, peaceful turkey dinner!
So very sorry for all the needless drama.
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Yes. The kids are a handful and let me tell you it just gets worse before it gets better. How does it get better? After they grow up and have an ah ha moment of their own. Usually it happens when they have kids of their own or have struggled financially. This is actually parenthood, a thankless job that only gets harder. I know we tend think now that they are "this old" they should be better, more mature, more understanding. But no. It's not going to happen like that. This job doesn't get done till they wake up I guess
I have a close friend with 6 kids that she raised on her own. They resented the divorce and put her through the mill. They are now all on their own and have come to her one by one each having experienced their ah ha moment, thanking her for all she had done and apologizing for all they put her through. Mine? not yet. We had a very similar day as you did for different reasons but none the less based on immature world views of the child.
So hang in there, it does happen. Just not when we would like it to.
I have a close friend with 6 kids that she raised on her own. They resented the divorce and put her through the mill. They are now all on their own and have come to her one by one each having experienced their ah ha moment, thanking her for all she had done and apologizing for all they put her through. Mine? not yet. We had a very similar day as you did for different reasons but none the less based on immature world views of the child.
So hang in there, it does happen. Just not when we would like it to.
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Thank you, Dollydo. It gives me hope to know someone is listening.
The evening, miraculously, ended on a good note. My kids found it in their hearts to give sincere apologies to one another and one came up and apologized to me of her own volition for a couple things she'd said to me in the course of all of this.
It gives me hope that maybe the cycle has been broken in this generation. But it still saddens me that I know it isn't, and won't be, entirely, because of the family schism. I wish I'd never moved back near family. I wish I could have seen, from a distance, how messed up they are.
The evening, miraculously, ended on a good note. My kids found it in their hearts to give sincere apologies to one another and one came up and apologized to me of her own volition for a couple things she'd said to me in the course of all of this.
It gives me hope that maybe the cycle has been broken in this generation. But it still saddens me that I know it isn't, and won't be, entirely, because of the family schism. I wish I'd never moved back near family. I wish I could have seen, from a distance, how messed up they are.
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Kialua,
I'm sorry you had a difficult day, as well, but I thank you for sharing your story. I keep reminding myself there will come a moment when these teenagers have enough life experience to finally know these things, and that day isn't here yet. But it's so hard to be viewed as the trouble maker, and partly because I'm trying not to badmouth anyone else and tell The Stories over and over. My mother did this to us, as we grew up, always bitter, angry, hateful words about my relatives, trying so hard to turn us against them and I hated it. So I say nothing, until a moment like this when it's thrown in my face.
One of my older sons knows this stuff but apparently forgot and one day lectured me that he's sure I *think* things were done, but you know, we all have *perceptions,* and maybe we could all just get along, and so on. He does not yet have enough life experience to understand that even among his 'nice' relatives, that's still like lecturing a little old lady about why she can't 'get along with' the mugger in the alley!
I'm sorry you had a difficult day, as well, but I thank you for sharing your story. I keep reminding myself there will come a moment when these teenagers have enough life experience to finally know these things, and that day isn't here yet. But it's so hard to be viewed as the trouble maker, and partly because I'm trying not to badmouth anyone else and tell The Stories over and over. My mother did this to us, as we grew up, always bitter, angry, hateful words about my relatives, trying so hard to turn us against them and I hated it. So I say nothing, until a moment like this when it's thrown in my face.
One of my older sons knows this stuff but apparently forgot and one day lectured me that he's sure I *think* things were done, but you know, we all have *perceptions,* and maybe we could all just get along, and so on. He does not yet have enough life experience to understand that even among his 'nice' relatives, that's still like lecturing a little old lady about why she can't 'get along with' the mugger in the alley!
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I so much hate that new line of psycho babble:
"...he's sure I *think* things were done, but you know, we all have *perceptions,*..."
Sorry but my *perceptions* were beat into me daily physically and emotionally for 18 years. My bruises and welts were not figments of my imagination. I still hear my enabling Mom saying "Not where it shows --not where it shows!" as he perceived all over me.
No, the kids are not there yet. You will know when they are.
I too told my kid very little about my upbringing, but what I did tell just got turned around and thrown in my face. They are just not adult and do not have adult reasoning yet. Whereas we were forced to grow up early due to our special circumstances ours are growing up really late.
Well I'm glad things kind of smoothed over at your place. Mine did too.
"...he's sure I *think* things were done, but you know, we all have *perceptions,*..."
Sorry but my *perceptions* were beat into me daily physically and emotionally for 18 years. My bruises and welts were not figments of my imagination. I still hear my enabling Mom saying "Not where it shows --not where it shows!" as he perceived all over me.
No, the kids are not there yet. You will know when they are.
I too told my kid very little about my upbringing, but what I did tell just got turned around and thrown in my face. They are just not adult and do not have adult reasoning yet. Whereas we were forced to grow up early due to our special circumstances ours are growing up really late.
Well I'm glad things kind of smoothed over at your place. Mine did too.
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Yes, that's a very modern idea, along with the idea that we're all really great people and it could only be 'misunderstandings' or 'lack of communication.' No, it was very clear communication that finally made me understand just how my family really sees me. The problem child, regardless of anything I've done. It's what led me finally to this board and seeing the same story over and over and realizing I'm really not crazy.
I was so shocked when he said it, that I failed to say, "No, I didn't 'perceive' being thrown on a bed and choked." But then, others have told me my mother is telling people I imagine things...for all I know my own son is hearing this garbage from her. (Her telling people, including my kids, these untrue, negative things is among the many reasons I finally went NC.)
I'm glad things got better at your place, too.
The problem child, regardless of anything I've done. It's what led me finally to this board and seeing the same story over and over and realizing I'm really not crazy.I was so shocked when he said it, that I failed to say, "No, I didn't 'perceive' being thrown on a bed and choked." But then, others have told me my mother is telling people I imagine things...for all I know my own son is hearing this garbage from her. (Her telling people, including my kids, these untrue, negative things is among the many reasons I finally went NC.)
I'm glad things got better at your place, too.
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Yes my Mother used the same "imagined" thing with my other sister who was so severely abused that she became paranoid schizophrenic by early 20's. "Well I think she imagines things , she was never right in the head, I could tell she had problems early on." Yeah probably because she was smacked in the head and thrown against the wall regularly!
Guilty people have it all figured out how to make it not their fault and educate others to believe them so that they can finally believe it themselves.
Guilty people have it all figured out how to make it not their fault and educate others to believe them so that they can finally believe it themselves.
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Originally Posted by Kialua 
Yes my Mother used the same "imagined" thing with my other sister who was so severely abused that she became paranoid schizophrenic by early 20's. "Well I think she imagines things , she was never right in the head, I could tell she had problems early on." Yeah probably because she was smacked in the head and thrown against the wall regularly!
Guilty people have it all figured out how to make it not their fault and educate others to believe them so that they can finally believe it themselves.
Guilty people have it all figured out how to make it not their fault and educate others to believe them so that they can finally believe it themselves.
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Oh Rose, I'm so sorry to hear this. Lemme guess - the teenagers started it and the younger ones joined in? Or the middle one's started it and the teenagers (who have the answer to everything and know how to fix all the ills of the world, dontcha know) supported the middle ones?
It's a natural part of development to separate from one's parents. The act of separation (meaning personality) takes years and is often, um, shall we say, less than graceful?
I'm glad to hear that in the end, they all found their sane, rational places again and could see straight enough to level out the emotional swings.
There's a book out there called "Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall" which you may find useful - it goes through how to deal with all the issues of teenage angst, hormonal swings and the psychology of kids turning into adults.
Your kids, when they're not having hormonally based psychotic episodes (hey, it's what I call my 'mood swings' when I have 'em
), will be able to see what's going on. I hope you have the strength to get through this.
I'm really glad to hear the "right now" part in your voice. The teen years especially will be a moment-to-moment existence. My 'teen' is now 20 and well on his way to being a fully fledged adult, but Boy Howdy! There were many a time I had to say "wait 10 minutes, he'll change again..." to keep my sanity.
Meanwhile, at least you've still got us to come vent/rant to. And you're doing well, you really are! If you were really the truly horrible parent they accused you of early in the day, they would not have come back and been happy at dinner (I think teenage mood 'swings' could be measured in nanoseconds), they would not have apologized, they would not have asked you what's wrong because they wouldn't have cared.
It's not you, it's teenagers and the developmental process they have to go through. And y'know what? Even with all the crap happening in my life right now (and there's plenty of it), there is not enough money in the world that would tempt me into going back to being a teenager!!
Hang in there!
Gin
It's a natural part of development to separate from one's parents. The act of separation (meaning personality) takes years and is often, um, shall we say, less than graceful?
I'm glad to hear that in the end, they all found their sane, rational places again and could see straight enough to level out the emotional swings.
There's a book out there called "Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall" which you may find useful - it goes through how to deal with all the issues of teenage angst, hormonal swings and the psychology of kids turning into adults.
Your kids, when they're not having hormonally based psychotic episodes (hey, it's what I call my 'mood swings' when I have 'em
), will be able to see what's going on. I hope you have the strength to get through this. Right now, tonight, I see no light at the end of this tunnel.
Meanwhile, at least you've still got us to come vent/rant to. And you're doing well, you really are! If you were really the truly horrible parent they accused you of early in the day, they would not have come back and been happy at dinner (I think teenage mood 'swings' could be measured in nanoseconds), they would not have apologized, they would not have asked you what's wrong because they wouldn't have cared.
It's not you, it's teenagers and the developmental process they have to go through. And y'know what? Even with all the crap happening in my life right now (and there's plenty of it), there is not enough money in the world that would tempt me into going back to being a teenager!!
Hang in there!
Gin
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Originally Posted by EveningRose
Thank you, Kialua. It helps to hear that. I had another 'Am I Crazy?' experience tonight, but think I'll post in a new thread, as it's a separate question.
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Ginger, it was the two high schoolers, one of whom loves to provoke, because the other one overreacts, and, frankly, as the younger, but bigger one, he's enjoying throwing his weight around. :-( The fight remained between the two of them with the exception that they both turned on me, accusing me of 'letting' the other do and say anything.
As usual, it's not the kids themselves that are the worst part of it, but that she chose to go to my parents on Thanksgiving, with all my siblings there, and they have no doubt now started the gossip mill churning with what an awful mother I am...without knowing or caring about the facts, as usual.
Thank you for this. Yes, it's true, and I realized that, and this is where it's evident that it's really the adults in my life, not the kids, who cause me the stress. This very important fact will go primarily unknown by my family and if they ever do know it, they'll just dismiss it and focus on the fact that there WAS a major blowout, that my daughter ended up walking in the cold to her grandparents and not wanting to come home. That fits their worldview and The Story better than the rest, so it's what will be told.
Kialua, you are so right.
As usual, it's not the kids themselves that are the worst part of it, but that she chose to go to my parents on Thanksgiving, with all my siblings there, and they have no doubt now started the gossip mill churning with what an awful mother I am...without knowing or caring about the facts, as usual.
If you were really the truly horrible parent they accused you of early in the day, they would not have come back and been happy at dinner (I think teenage mood 'swings' could be measured in nanoseconds), they would not have apologized, they would not have asked you what's wrong because they wouldn't have cared.
Kialua, you are so right.
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