EveningRose

I guess this is a thread jack from Shyness/Social Phobia, but I figure it's probably a huge issue for many of us who have become parents.

I guess the thread obviously hit a nerve with me. I have never spent a lot of time feeling my parents deliberately used shame as a tool (or would weapon be the more appropriate word?) And yet, I have many memories of moments when their words to me caused me to feel shame.

In addition to some of the things I mentioned in the other post and have mentioned here in the past (Everything you do is half-assed. I'm embarrassed by you. No wonder nobody likes you.) today it has been a memory of a time I did a ballet move (I took lessons) in the family room. I put my hand on a bookshelf for balance. My mother was in a bad mood, I guess. She got angry, but wasn't content just to say don't do that. She put her hand on the shelf and lifted her leg, looking very much like a dog doing its business, and pretty much told me that's what I looked like.

I can guarantee I never did any ballet in front of her again.

It's one of those things that, as my kids got older, I realized I would never in a million years do such a thing to them. It was cruel. It was untrue. It was petty and nasty.

The problem is, I struggle to tell them things that sometimes as an adult, as their parent, I should be telling them...teaching them, correcting them when they really do need to change a habit, or even when they're doing something that isn't necessarily wrong or bad, but just a matter of keeping the wheels moving smoothly when people all live together and have to remember everything they do has its impact on someone else.

I will say that most people (pretty much everyone except my parents and siblings) regard my kids as well-behaved and good kids.

But I worry a lot about how to teach them all those growing up and social skills and general getting along stuff that all kids need to learn, without implying that there's something wrong with them or that I'm ashamed with them. The most extreme example, for example, would be that I have a son with ADHD. His behavior definitely is difficult, and I definitely do correct him and try to teach him, but I worry a lot about whether I have made my kids feel shame despite trying to teach them with love and kindness.

I sometimes feel anger at my parents because they feel I'm too lax with my kids, and yet I can say that 100%, any time I have been too lax with my kids, it has been due to my attempt not to be like my parents, my attempt to avoid making my children feel small and shamed as my parents' behavior did to me.

Anyone else? Any ideas on finding the balance?

NWGRITS

This is a loaded topic right here. My whole life has been how I'm one big screw-up after another, which is great knowing that AM resents her children even having been born. I could never do anything right or well enough. I did so many things to make her look bad, though I only recall one instance when I was young that would've done that-- the time I tried to run away from home and take a bus to Boston. I was 16 then and desperate to get out of her house.

She hauled me off to a therapist. During the first session she went on and on about how I was a problem child with serious behavioral issues, and how I was making her life hell. Once the therapist had spent time with both of us alone, she told me, "It's no wonder you want out. You've been trying to get her love and affection your whole life, but she's never reciprocated. You have an alcoholic for a mother, and that is damaging to anyone's psyche. This is not your fault. We're going to work on you and forget about her while you're in this office." Once AM realized that the therapist wasn't going to give HER what SHE wanted, she pulled me out of therapy.

I've never really succeeded at much in my life, because I wasn't "that kind of person." I had to drop out of college after being diagnosed with a chronic medical condition that almost killed me my junior year. Just another example of how I'll never amount to anything. I rarely finish what I start, mostly due to feeling inferior to anyone else doing the same thing.

I got pregnant with my first child at 21, second at 23, third at 28. I'm still pregnant with #3, and I wonder every day just what the hell it is I think I'm doing bringing another child into the world for me to ruin it. I know I'm already twice the mother my AM was, but I still lack in a lot of areas. I can be too harsh and judgmental of them, and I hate myself for it. They don't deserve some of the things I say, but I haven't figured out how to stop it. I'm hoping that being in Al-Anon now will help me pinpoint where that disconnect exists and fix it. I love my children more than life itself, but most of my parenting has been fraught with second-guessing and guilt. They seem to be happy and well-adjusted when they're with other people and other family members, so I know I'm doing something right, but I still doubt myself constantly. I'm a work in progress.

EveningRose

Oh, yes, I was looking for apartments when I was 16, trying to figure out how I could get a job and manage to support myself and still finish high school. I considered suicide--twice, seriously enough that I started giving things away to my younger siblings. My cousin, who was in a similar family situation, did attempt suicide and ended up in the hospital and my mother sneered at how she was 'just trying to get attention.' I realize how sick now that attitude is. Strangely, perhaps it helped save my life, realizing my desperation would only lead to her criticizing me even more.

Did it help you to have that confirmation, even for a short time, from the therapist? Does it give you confirmation and reassurance now?


Are you saying you'll never amount to anything as your own beliefs or as what your mother says about you? As I've gotten older (I'm hitting mid-40s), and as my children have grown older and I've seen the stark difference between what my parents said and did to me vs things I would never dream of saying and doing to them, I've come to see much more clearly how much of these things were my parents' problems. A parent who sees a child nearly killed by a chronicle medical condition and still finds fault with them for dropping out of college is mixed up. And finishing college is hardly the measure of a person's worth, anyway.

These are the moments when I wish we could all be sitting around in person with coffee and real-life hugs.

I have struggled with these same feelings, and obviously to an extent still worry. But I think all young parents go through learning stages. Parenthood, especially with three young children, tests the patience of a saint.

I definitely believe al-anon helps. I only went for six months and found it life-changing, and a huge stepping stone to helping myself even more, even though I'd been reading self-help and self improvement books since I was 15 or 16 years old. Someone has recommended I go back, saying six months is nowhere near enough. I'm sure they're right and am only trying to figure out a time in my schedule when I could go back, but I'm so grateful that I went for as long as I did.

Plath

Oh my gosh, I can relate so much to both of you.

Like NWGRITS, I find that I am overly critical (not so much with my son...YET, but with my husband, and I've even managed to turn my mother's horrid behavior around on her, etc.).

I also struggle with wondering whether or not I'm doing okay with giving my son guidance, boundaries, and structure. He's only 16 months old, so there's very little to criticize. But he has the physical abilities of kids twice his age, so it's really hard for me to find a balance with trying to deter him from doing things/playing with things that are dangerous, or are simply not for kids to play with, etc.

To my way of thinking, he's too young to give him a time out for doing things that kids his age just normally do, but with the strength of a three year-old and the understanding of a 16 month-old. Whew! I'm really, really hard on myself in so many ways.

This is leading to another thread that I've been preparing to post about how my husband and I interact in front of our son. That's another story, and I'll save it for a separate post.

I am also a work in progress. I had my son when I was 36 (I'm now 37), and although I waited a good long while to start a family, I quickly realized while I was pregnant that my behaviors mimic my mother's in a really alarming way. That's when I really started using this forum. Now that I'm in therapy, my behavior has improved A LOT, but there's still so much for me to sort out. I just want to do it before my son is affected too much by my issues, the way that I was affected by my mother's issues.

I also realize that I'm not half as cruel and crazy as my mother was when I was growing up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm super healthy emotionally, either. I still have plenty of issues to work on, but at least we're all here working on our issues, which is more than our families were willing or able to do for us.

NWGRITS

Did it help you to have that confirmation, even for a short time, from the therapist? Does it give you confirmation and reassurance now?


Yes, it did. It still does now, whenever I think about it. I did go through a period where I used her alcoholism as an excuse for my own poor behavior and bad decision-making. I'm ashamed that I let myself turn into her in some ways, but I know that I had no way of knowing at the time that's what I was doing. At 29 I'm just starting to really grow up and into my own life.

Are you saying you'll never amount to anything as your own beliefs or as what your mother says about you?

Yes and yes. Despite everything, I still have some self-esteem issues when it comes to any talents I have. My husband has been a huge support to me where that's concerned, though. Actually, we've sort of brought each other to realizing our strengths and our talents. I thank God every day that He gave me that man. I walked away once because I didn't think he needed to take on my crazy. I guess God knew better and made sure our paths crossed again a year later. Anyway, I'm starting to see that I am worth something to someone. Being a Navy wife, a mother, an employee in a great organization, and a volunteer makes me happy. I'm comfortable in my life, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I see the joy in my kids' faces that I never had growing up. I nurture their talents, which my mother never did. Both of my kids are so incredibly smart, and my daughter will certainly end up as a performer somewhere. If not the ballet, then Broadway or some other venue where she can dance. Her ballet instructor has commented on her natural ability to learn and perform classical technique at nearly five years old. I quit ballet at 7 because I goofed up a step and my mother told me that I'd probably never be really good at it, anyway. I think this baby is going to grow up to run marathons or do judo. LOL. I'm just trying to take it one day at a time right now until I can get in to see one of the therapists here on base. I need to start working on my recovery with a professional, as well as getting my bi-polar under control.

EveningRose

I wonder, both in thinking through my own thoughts in order to post, and in reading responses, if having children isn't often the salvation for those of us who grew up in dysfunction. I myself only saw in my own interactions with my children, as they grew, how very wrong my parents' words and actions were. Had I never had children, it's possible I would have continued to believe their behavior was normal and thus that they were right in their assessments of me.

And like both of you, having children made me more aware of my own behavior and how it was affecting a helpless child. They gave me a great motivation to heal myself and become a better person for their sake.

In yet another way, they have helped me heal because I can see that I have done better than what my parents gave me, and I can take pride that I have accomplished that despite the obstacles, even while I still question myself.

NWGRITS

I say all the time that my son saved me. I was headed down a dark and lonely road paved with self-loathing when I got pregnant with him. If I hadn't gotten pregnant, I would have been dead in a ditch somewhere. I could have definitely turned into my mother completely. I finally learned how to care for someone other than myself, and what unconditional love felt like. I still feel tremendous guilt for having post-partum depression after he was born, though. Probably the darkest point in my life post-self-pity binge for those couple of months after turning 21.