1111justagirl

So I have been told over and over again to cut off all communication with my mother! She has had a drinking problem since before I was born! To be honest I was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. I had to go to speech therapy for many years and had a hard time with several things. The only family member she has left in her life it me! Everyone else has cut her out! I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. She is the cause of most of my problems! I like to think that her drinking has gotten better but I moved away from her about 10 years ago. I'm not sure if she is drinking less or if her body just can't handle it anymore. Her drinking has cause a lot of pain for everyone. She even killed someone in a drinking and driving accident. She was completely at fault and now thanks to my mother someone else out there in the world doesn't have theirs. She has been to jail and countless rehab places. I have done what I can to distance myself from her, but if she doesn't have me who does she have. She recently had a heart attack and some other issues that sent her into the hospital. I had to get on a plane and go to her. There was no one else to be there. I like to think it was the right thing to do for she decided to lie to all the doctors and tell them she didn't drink. I couldn't believe it. But am I supposed to jump on a plane everytime something happens? I just don't know if it is better to cut her out of my life or to continue to just stay by and watch her kill herself!!

Kialua

Hi justagirl, I'm so sorry this is happening to you, like it has happened to all of us. It is up to you if you need to go see her when she has a medical emergency. If you would feel too guilty not seeing her. It is hard to keep doing, and if it's too hard emotionally you have to consider that. Have you found any support group where you live to help you get through this? Like Alanon or ACOA? I think that is an important step for you to take. My Dad didn't end up in the hospital until he was 80.

Please keep posting if you need to "think outloud" here. It does help.

tromboneliness

This is what they do -- they'll have the doctors scratching their heads, consulting specialists in obscure diseases and so on, trying to figure out what could possibly account for end-stage cirrhosis in someone who has never had so much as a glass of Chardonnay with dinner. I've seen it -- they tell the doctors, with a straight face, that no, they do not drink.

I'm not sure if the docs are just playing dumb, when presented with this, or if they actually believe the patient's story. Certainly in the two cases I've dealt with firsthand, I never saw a doctor tell the alcoholic, "Come on now, no one has your symptoms unless they drink like a fish!" Maybe they're not supposed to do that, I dunno....

T

Chimmy

My mum lied to docs as well - 'I am not drunk' she used to announce to them, when she was blatently off her face, they will have known but they can't help her unless she helps herself.

What you decide to do is ultimatley your choice. I am always on here desperatley searching for answers!

What ever you decide we will always be here offering support. I suggest Al Anon it will help you to come to terms with everything and some proffessional councelling.

I wish you all the best I really hope things work out for you x

LuvMySis

No.

I agree with Kialua. If there is an emergency, and you want to see your mother for your own well-being, then go. But if you get that stomach-churning here-we-go-again feeling of dread, you don't have to go. Do what you want to do for yourself.

It's up to your mom to take care of herself and live her life as she wants.

Also, as far as no contact versus standing by watching . . . have you tried something in between? That's what works for me. You can have short communications with her without being involved in all of that drama.

I have learned to take care of myself first. Then, if you have any energy and feelings left over, do something for your mom. It's not your responsibility to take care of her for the rest of her life.

1111justagirl

Thanks for all of your thoughts!! I guess I need to learn to put myself first, but I am not very good at that!! I have always wanted to help everyone around me! It's just the way I am!! I think I have a fear that if I don't keep an eye on my mother something is going to go wrong again!! I have moved to away from her!! There is about 1400 mile between us!! But sometimes being this far away only makes it harder! I know that I shouldn't feel like I have to watch her, but I can't help it!! When she doesn't answer her phone all I can think of is "Here we go again" ....... I instantly think that she is on some drug and drinking rampage! My sister still lives in the same town and has somehow manage to cut ties!! However everyone that says my mother is no longer part of their lives depends on me to keep them updated about what is going on with her!! It's not fair that I have to be the middle man. I feel like I have three totally seperate families. My father's side, my mother's side and then just my mother!!! Anyways I am pretty sure that I am just rambling now. I wish I could find a magical cure so that no one in the world would ever have an addiction to drugs/alcohol again!!

NWGRITS

You don't have to be the middle man. You don't have a responsibility to anyone but yourself. You're heaping all this guilt onto yourself for no reason. It's perfectly ok for you to
stop being a doormat and get your life back. I promise. It's not easy, I know. I was the family scapegoat for the longest time. I finally went NC with my mother about a month-and-a-half ago, and I've never been happier. I've detached from my maternal relatives, so it's really just me, the hubby, our kids, my ex-husband and my dad in my small inner circle. Did I feel guilt at first? Tons of it. I was unfairly punishing my mother or whoever else felt like whining that day. Finally saying "Enough is enough." allowed me to start regaining the life that I am supposed to have, and let them deal with the rest for once. Take care of yourself, and never be afraid to reach out to the great people here at SR.

Melbadaze

Feeling like you are are all she has is part of the set up we get caught up in. We grow up being made to feel responsible for the adults. She's adult now, she can ask for what she wants, she can get help if she wants. You aren't responsible for her & never have been.
For me its how I felt better about myself as a child believing the lie I was important to her. That was better than feeling the truth, I wasn't important to her.

dollydo

As an ACOA here are a few things that I have learned:

When a member of the family retreats into an alcohol/drug induced mindset it becomes impossible for the family to sustain itself in a healthy way.

Children of "A's" feel painfully responsible, they can never relax into their own lives. They feel that they must always be vigilant.

Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with anothers behavior.

Guilt is directly related to people pleasing.

Guilt is a negative emotion that is paralyzing, and never leads to change or improvement.

Without an enabler the "A" would have to start facing the consequences of their actions. The well intentioned enabler, out of love for the "A" will attempt to protect them from their consequences...this role will only make the situation worse, it is counter productive.

Just my thoughts after dealing with my alcoholic mother for 60+ years...now no contact...yet again.

My best to you!

EveningRose

I've been thinking about this post for a few days.

For probably 4 years, I have cut ties entirely with both my parents, who are in their 70s. As a very religious person, I fully expected the members of another forum I frequent (a religious one), to tell me that I must shrug off all these things, forgive, love, etc. Instead, their unanimous response, in post after post, when I asked questions, was that you can't fix toxic people, that there is absolutely no way to get along with toxic people, that the only answer is to put as much physical distance between myself and them as possible.

I don't know how much lack of guilt proves anything, but as much as I pray, think about God, set aside time for God, read the Bible and devotional material, I like to think that if I had done wrong, I would have some niggling in my conscience.

I don't.

I also look back at how I felt, and how I was, before I cut ties with them. I feel like I'm a happier and better person now.

I'm a better mother now, because I have chipped away at the pressure they put on me--unrealistic pressure--to make my children perfect. Before I cut ties with them, I was a nervous wreck at the thought of taking my kids near them, and I found myself yelling and snapping at the kids, knowing my parents would yell at them worse if they stepped a toe out of line. Since cutting ties, I have been able to relax and really see my kids as others do, as good kids. Of course they have faults. Of course, with a whole bunch of boys, it's not always quiet and orderly. But we all have faults and overall, these are good kids.

I feel I've grown in my faith since cutting ties. My view of God has changed entirely. Before, I lived in something like dread of God, that no matter how hard I tried, I would get to The End, and hear, "A-ha, but you didn't SUCH AND SUCH, did you??" I read somewhere that our view of God is often based on our earthly parents, and indeed, I realized that I viewed God as a 'Gotcha!' God who was going to withhold information or change the rules, or rip the rug out from under my feet somehow or other. Very much how I always felt with my parents, that every time I thought I'd figured out the rules, they got changed on me, and my father would be looking at me with that look of anger and glee mixed together--angry that I'd screwed up aGAIN, and this sort of glee as he pounced.

(I posted just an hour or so ago about being told everything I did was 'half-assed,' and when I tried harder and harder to get everything just right was told triumphantly that yet again I'd screwed up by taking too long.)

Since cutting ties, I had the experience of lying in bed and almost physically feeling God come down and sit beside me, and since that time, my view of Him has steadily changed till I finally see Him as a loving father just as I was always told He is. Now I feel it and believe it and I no longer live in fear of God.

It saddens me to say that good has come from cutting all contact with my parents, but it has. Their behavior in the meantime has only confirmed my decision. I believe that if the problems were mine, if they were really such good people, I'd see some love come from them and some attempt to talk and solve problems. Instead, I hear from more people the hurtful, untrue things my mother says about me and she has made NO attempt to speak to me in 4 years. She'll walk right by me in the store or at church and not even acknowledge me. And my father...I posted about it here at the time, but his last communication with me, heading onto two years ago, was a dozen voicemails telling me I'm a troublemaker, and ruining my children's lives and that he's a much better parent than I am, and finally, calling me vulgar names.

I toss my experience out simply as one experience as you think about your future course. Are you a better person, happier, more grounded, better able to make the world around you a better place for others, as a result of your interactions with your mother, as a result of dropping everything to run to her?

Do you think you can send her a card or make a dutiful phone call with detachment, without letting it spin you into a dark place? I envision the day when I can do that, show them love without letting their darkness destroy me, which then hurts those around me. I'm not there yet, and I feel no guilt or shame for that.

My prayers are with you.

1111justagirl

Thank you so much for your post!! I guess I need to just face reality and realize that she isn't going to get any better! She has been this way forever! Everytime I try to cut ties with her she reals me back in. I guess I have always felt that you only get one mother and nothing can replace that!! Everytime I cut her out of my life one way or another she finds a way back in. I am a generally really happy person. She is the only thing that really breaks me. I have let her come and visit me, but that went horribly bad from the moment I picked her up at the airport ( she was sooooo drunk), went out to dinner with my friends where she proceeded in telling them I was a horrible daughter, down to the time we got home and she attempted to beat me up!! I give everyone who has the strength to cut out the "bad" in their life so much credit. I don't know how to do that! I don't think I could ever forgive myself if I stopped talking to her and something happened! How do you have the stregnth? My mother and I don't ever talk about her drinking problem. She knows that I moved away because of her and there are times that I would love to sit and talk to her about what she did to my life, but I don't want to hurt her! where do you even start?

Mracoa

That's a great question. Okay, maybe it's rhetorical. Even if it is, it's still a good question.

In the case of my AF, I started by thinking of myself first. That was difficult. I had spent my entire childhood trying to keep the peace, trying to avoid confrontation. Starting a confrontation is very unatural for me. (Okay, it was more standing up for myself than starting a confrontation, but still difficult for me).

I had to stop that. I started out by hanging up on him when we talked on the phone and was drunk and being abusive. It was hard to be polite about it,but I tried. I had recently started working in a customer service oriented position that included some training on how to handle 'difficult customers'. I fell back on that training and just politely told him that I didn't need to listen to his abusive language, and he was welcome to call back when and if he could behave in a civilized fashion. (That's a conversation I will never forget, it's burned in my memory like a movie).

We went no contact for 6 years after that call. When he did contact me again, it was from rehab. He was working on his 12 steps, and we started to have a relationship again. I don't belive (nor am i looking for) we will ever have a fairy tale father/son relationship. But, we can have a few nice phone conversations a year, and i go visit him every Father's Day with out any major incidents, which is nice.

tromboneliness

These all have parallels with my Dad (died in 2010 at age 90) and me.... And my super-duper-maxissimo-codependent sister. She used to write to my Dad from time to time, usually in an attempt to out-manipulate a master manipulator and tell him how worried she was about his drinking, how she was only writing because she loved him so much and couldn't bear the thought that he might come to some harm, blah-blah. She used to make sure he knew that she "couldn't be bought off" by whatever he might leave her (by way of an inheritance) but that she "was only concerned about his health," etc., etc., etc. I ran across several of these letters while I was sorting through my parents' files (while cleaning out their house to get it ready to sell).

My Dad constantly used to try to reel me in, especially after my Mom died (in 2008). I eventually figured out that I could just let go of the rope -- not answer the phone every time he called (I'd answer every second or third time, or so -- the more often I answered, the more often he'd call, but the reverse was also true). Whatever he'd say, I'd just nod in agreement, be as noncommittal as possible, and generally let him go on and on with whatever he wanted to rant about. Taking issue with him was pointless -- what did it matter who was "right" and who was "wrong?" He was just always mad at some aspect of the world that wouldn't bend to his will -- the ultimate one being that he wanted to live forever, which he almost did, but not quite.

I remember going to an Al-Anon meeting, back when my wife was still drinking, and someone related that they had finally left their alcoholic, and that he committed suicide about a week later. This kind of thing does happen, and it gives rise to the idea that we caused the person to self-destruct -- they may even leave a note saying, in effect, "See what you made me do?" But we didn't "make" them do anything. If we were capable of making them do what we wanted, we would have made them quit drinking! But how well did that work? Before I got into the program, I tried all the usual things -- pouring out bottles, trying to be "perfect" so there would be "no need" for her to get drunk, and so on -- none of which had any effect at all; just as my sister's attempts to get my parents to quit drinking just wasted their time and annoyed them. (Well, and my attempts to do the same, in earlier years.)

My sister and I were not the ones who made our parents drink. They drank before we were born, and if we hadn't been born for some reason, they'd have kept at it, just as they did. And if an alcoholic is bent on self-destruction, that's their path. My wife got sober and healthy, but that's because she wanted to do it, not because I -- in some unprecedented combination of control, appeals to reason, and overall miraculous persuasion -- figured out a way to make her give it up!

T

EveningRose

True, I only got one mother, and she wasn't great. I just don't see any reason to keep abuse in my life in the hopes she'll suddenly change her mind and see good in me.


That she is the only thing that breaks you tells you something. Listen.

I'm not sure I'd call it strength, to have cut her out. I think it's much like the people on the infidelity forum I frequent when they talk about the decision to divorce. One day, you finally just know. Something finally just snaps in you and you just know that you are through being abused. It's over. It's not even a decision, per se, in that respect.

The day it happened with me, I had made a real effort to see if maybe I could make an extra effort and finally build a good relationship. Long story short, she spent the whole time being negative, critical, disapproving, and finally, once more telling me I deserved someone else's bad behavior toward me, even after I told her I finally called this woman and found out she was mad over me going to work one day--yeah, I kid you not. I had to go to work, so I was never allowed in her house again. But my mother, who doesn't even know this woman, just knew that somehow, I still deserved this.

That was the end for me. I remember just sort of staring at her in disbelief, as I finally understood, this is what she believes of me, this is what she wants to believe of me, and it is impossible to have a pleasant conversation with her...or even to be part of the conversation at all (she always does all the talking.) I just said good-bye, walked away, and never called her again. Guess what--she appears not to have even noticed. She never called me, either.

My guess is there's the illusion of responsibility and control going on here. You didn't cause it, you can't control it. If she keeps drinking, yes, probably something will happen. Continuing to talk to her is not going to save her or help her in any way. If/when something happens, it will not be because you pulled back to protect yourself. It will be because she continued her behavior.



I don't. I have watched my mother use her poisoned tongue to lambaste and smear and attempt to destroy people's reputations for years. I have listened to her tell story after story of how unfair they were to her, how they hurt her, blahblahblah. I know full well that the ONLY result of trying to have a rational discussion with her about how her behavior is harming me or driving me away (and others, too) will be that she'll go into full-blown Self Pity Mode, complete with the sad-puppy eyes and the little girl sniffs, and then she'll re-tell The Story for the next 35 years, if she lives that long, of how mean I was to her.

I'm guessing you have a pretty good idea of how your mother will respond if you try. I'm guessing that like most of our parents, it's worse than useless to even try. So why bother. I don't consider it a failure or lack of courage on my part that I never tried. I simply know it'll only make everything even worse.

I do still think about it, I admit. I know I'll be getting the mushy, flowery I love you, Daughter birthday card any day now, and I'd really like to send her a letter telling her that love is a verb, and her actions (ripping my name to shreds at church, to my friends and children) is NOT 'love.' Maybe I will, but I know it'll probably be useless.

But I have to say, as far as concern about hurting her? I have none. I don't mean that in a cold way. I would never try to hurt her. It would never, ever be my intent. I would hope that if I ever speak the truth, I'll speak it in love. But if the truth does hurt, no matter how gently spoken...well, I guess my feeling is that she has never had the least concern about how she's been hurting me all these years. So I wouldn't hold back from the truth, spoken as kindly as possible, if I thought it would do any good.

EveningRose

My story, to a point, is similar.

For me, I'd say it started with moving away, far, far away, for years on end, and having many years of people treating me like a respected adult, rather than a screw-up. So when I moved back home, it was quite a bit easier to see this was not how adults treat each other, not even if they're family.

I had already pretty much cut contact with my family, but my dad called one day, already drunk at 10:30 am by the sound of his voice, ordering me to hang up on a client with whom I was speaking. I told him I'd call him back. He started swearing at me. By then, I was used enough to being treated with a modicum of respect, that I had no problem saying, "How dare you talk to me like that," and hanging up on him. In part, it's because I treat others with respect and dignity that I have no qualms about expecting to be treated decently in return.

His response was to leave a dozen voicemails, when I would no longer answer the phone, one uglier than the next. That was in early January of 2011, nearly two years ago, and he has had no contact with me since. He's made no attempt to contact me since.

I really think the beginning point is having the respect for yourself and your own goodness and integrity in how you treat others, that something inside you will simply no longer tolerate that treatment. For me, it really wasn't a decision. Nothing in the world, no force of nature, could have made me take that from him, at that point, because I knew I didn't deserve it. I had done nothing to him or to anyone to deserve such treatment. I reacted accordingly, without consciously deciding to do so.

dollydo

Yes, you only have one mother....and you only have one life...there are no dress rehersals.

Your mother has lived her life on her own terms, without regard to you, without thinking about how her behavior would affect you.

Where do you draw the line...and...start living your own life?

NWGRITS

I never had a mother. There's a woman who was in my life who just happened to give birth to me. She's been drinking far longer than I've been alive. She was never a mother of any kind to us as kids. She would lavish us with birthday presents, cards, all that mushy crap when it was called for, but we always knew there was no real feeling behind it. When she drinks, her true feelings come out. She resents us having been in the world. She resents any relationship anyone around her has with anyone else, because it takes the attention off of her. I've seen and heard the way she treats people when she's not getting the love that's OWED TO HER. No, thanks. My grandmother tried to be a surrogate to us, but she fell very short. Our father just didn't know what to do, so he divorced her and stuck to the visitation orders from the court.

I live 3,000 miles away from my mother and have been No Contact for almost two months now. I stopped feeling any guilt for whatever may happen to her a long time ago. I didn't cause it, I never could control it, and I can't cure it. So, I'm done. I hope that one day she'll sober up, but after 40 years and still raging about how everyone and everything around her made her life a living hell, I doubt it'll happen.

1111justagirl

Thanks!! You are right!! I do believe that my mother has the ability to be a good person!! I have seen this, but it never last. I need to realize that the glimmers of hope she shows aren't enough to out weigh all the negative. She has hurt me for years and caused me to always fear the worst with her! It time for me to let go and live my own life!! It's time to put me first. Although I am aware that this is much easier typed here on this post then making it happen! I will work on this though. I just need to remind myself everyday that I did everything I could for years and now it's time to put myself first. I can not feel guilty for doing so. She has put herself before anyone else for years. I need to stop making excuses for her and stop pretending that she's getting better. The truth hurts, but I just have to face it.

dollydo

NWgrits

" She resents any relationship anyone around her has with anyone else, because it takes the attention off of her."

Wow! You know my mother...she even doesn't want my brother and I to have a relationship!

NWGRITS

The stories I could tell about times she's pitted us against each other. Yet we still fell for it every time. Sadly, many of my relatives still play that game with each other. If being the only one to leave town and get off the carousel makes me "the bad one," then I'll wear that title with pride. Pass me the tiara, please!