Aries40

I am new to this site. Reading other peoples experiences has been most helpful.

A bit about me and my situation. I am an ACOA and adult child of abuse survivor, and in recovery myself.

My dad used to give me shot glasses of beer when I was very young while we watched boxing matches together. My first drunk was on my 13th Christmas with my parents and extended family of origin. My first experience with drugs was my 13th summer with my Aunt who encouraged and taught me to use a bong after giving me a bottle of vodka.

My whole life has been surrounded by drugs and alcohol within my family of origin. I was a binge drinker and occassional drug user, on a social level. I have not had a drink or drugs in 4 years this month. It feels great!

I was not fully aware of my problem until my step daughter started exhibiting signs of drug abuse. That is when I finally REALLY started learning about addiction, it was just over 4 years ago. Just before I found out that my step daughter was using drugs, I discovered that one of my siblings was an addict. The denial process is so hard. It took me lots of time to process it all.

Unfortunately my step daughter died almost 3 years ago of a drug overdose. I couldn't save her. It has been a long and hard road of recovery. Most everyone else in our families of origin are using drugs or drinking to get thru the grief stuff. But I will not allow myself an escape like that anymore. I have finally figured out how to cope with it in my own healthy ways.

I have been working a long time to help heal myself from all the baggage I carry around from childhood. I have worked hard to establish healthy boundaries for myself with other family members, but regularly fall back to the old patterns and ways of codependency. My siblings like to tell me I'm controlling and that they are worried about my mental state regularly and make things up about me. I have recently realized that they are part of my block and have been a big part of my relapses. When I get around them, I get sick.

The most recent situation is that sibling 1 and I had a conflict of opinions concerning drug use. Sibling 1 was defensive of sibling 2's status as drug addict. (which I am blamed for becaue I outed sibling 2) Sibling 1 stating that the two of them have done drugs together. Sibling 1 told me that drugs were not addictive and that people can just stop when they want to. I asked that the conversation stop, as it was in front of my son. And stated that addiction is not that easy, as my sons sibling, my step daughter, is dead from it.

Weeks later I got an email from sibling 1 telling me of their feelings of hurt and confusion over our visit. They made some fictitious stories up about things that were said, like our visit had been a multiple choice, you fill in the blanks and make something up between the lines type game. Sibling 1 admitted to telling their version of our conversation to sibling 2.

I was enraged about it. Was not going to respond, but decided to respond, set boundaries and ask that I not be contacted again for awhile. Later I decided answer the mail with my version of what had happened and explain things. I was very clear and direct in my reply and I asked that we have no contac for awhile.

A few days later I got a text from sibling 2 that they were sorry about the letters between me and sibling 1. I did not reply. Two hours later sibling 2 showed up at my door wanting me to come out and talk to them, knowing that previous times they have disrupted me without invitation I have said my boundary is to be invited before coming over. Then sibling 2 wanted to talk to me about letter between me and sibling 1. I said I will not talk to you about that. It is between me and sibling 1. Sibling 2 said that since we were talking about her/him, she/he was involved. I said that was a private conversation and I am not talking to you about it.


I have read Toxic Parents, Toxic In-Laws, Emotion Blackmail and tons of other Self Help books and forums. Been to therapy a lot. Triangulation and Enmeshed family dynamics are so hard. I feel great when I don't have contact with my family of origin. I feel sick when I have contact with them. Seems like a no brainer, but the ties that bind...and gag. Sigh...This time, I really want out, tho. I want to focus on my own recovery, my child and my spouse. No more enmeshment!

How do you all deal with these complex situations?

Thanks for letting me ramble. Needed to vent that all out and be amongst others with similar situations.

Aries40

chicory

Dear Aries,

I am sorry about your stepdaughter's passing. Dealing with your loss is hard enough, so I can imagine your frustrations, being an ACOA.

Knowing how we adult children sometimes want to "fix" problems, being around unrecovered family members, especially sibs, for me. I have found that sometimes, sadly, no contact is the only way. until they find some recovery, learn something about healthy boundaries, it may be that you wont be able to have productive communication, or relationships.
When I am around one of my sibs, who is in denial , it can make me crazy very quickly. It feels like swimming through cobwebs without my eyes. Nothing happens but frustration. I have had to accept that she has a right to live and feel like she wants, but I dont have to be part of it. sad, but necessary for my peace of mind.

best wishes,
chicory

frances2011

Welcome Aries. I'm sorry for all the hard times you've been through and your step daughters passing.

Congratulations and vibes for continuing healing for you.

My experience is that the people here on sr "get" our acoa experiences. It is so healing for me to be part of this family.

I am no contact with one sibling for over 2 years. It hasn't been easy but I no longer engage in behaviors that hurt myself and her, IMO. For me, no contact with no drama or emotion is the kindest choice I am able to make today.

Again, welcome!

DesertEyes

Hello Aries, and welcome to our corner of Sober Recovery

Triangulation and enmeshment are the hallmarks of my "family of origin". What worked for me was to work my program of recovery on _each_ individual issue I had. I use the 12 steps of ACoA, replace the word "alcohol" with "my mother's neediness", "my need to rescue", "my inability to trust", etc. and then do all 12 step on just one of those items.

I do the steps with a good sponsor _and_ a good therapist. As part of the "ammends" step I find _healthy_ ways to express my needs. i.e.: As part of healing from my need to rescue others I volunteered at a local hospital.

With my family I started with boundaries that I could easily maintain. Don't call me after 8PM, and I protected my boundary by turning off the phone. Later I had a second phone line installed, just for my family. The rest of the world got my regular phone number. Basically I was "training" them, one small step at a time, to call me less frequently. Much like you train an animal.

When I was strong enough to hold those boundaries I decided that since my family was using me as a type of "free therapist" I should simply run with it. I told them I was going to charge them $150.00 an hour for therapy. It took a few months, and me sending them invoices, but they slowly started to understand that it was less trouble to _not_ call me.

Over the years I actually got paid a few times

By resolving my own un-healthy needs I made it much easier to defend my boundaries. Once I did that I was able to find healthy way to meet my needs, and I was able to train _them_ to go find a sucker some where else. It did not happen overnight, it happened very slowly and I didn't notice any progress for many months at a time.

Today I have a large number of _healthy_ friends. I easily avoid toxic people simply because I don't have time for them in my life. Recovery has worked great for me, but I had to do the work and be patient with myself.

Welcome again, I hope you find what you are looking for

Mike

Aries40

I appreciate the responses above. Even tho I have taken a break from my family of origin before, this time is different. The guilt is worse this time. When I was a teen and left them is the first time I got sober and had a somewhat "normal" life. Except for the codependency with my bf. (hind sight). In the past I have reverted back to the drunk party girl when I am around my family of origin. Not their fault. It's my problem. Now I constantly feel on the defensive and gaurded around them. They like to bring up times that I was out of control, but never mention what they were doing along side of me. They say rude things about my weight, looks and clothing and tell me if they think I am parenting wrong or treating others in the family wrong. I just can't stand it anymore. There is no joy at all when I am around them. It's always stressful and tense. I know what I need to do for my own sanity. Just having a hard time with it and needed some support.

Thanks so much for your posts...

DesertEyes... I appreciate you sharing your experience of how you got those boundaries set. I have often thought of charging people for my "listening" services. lol Such an energy drain!

I can't fix other people's problems, but I CAN fix mine!

Aries40

Kialua

Take care of yourself first. Insist on bounderies and go no contact if you have to. I am one of six siblings that I never see except for one once in a while but certainly no holidays or celebrations. It just isn't worth it.

tromboneliness

Guilt -- this is a hard one, because it's partly externally-imposed, but also partly internally created.

One of the most helpful sayings/slogans/axioms/etc. that I take away from meetings (that would be Al-Anon or ACA, but others will do the same) is that it's important to get rid of the "shoulds." You "should" do this, you should do that. You should spend more time with your relatives -- they're family, after all, and blood is thicker than water (whatever that's supposed to mean). You should let your parents order you around. You should let your kids' alkie father see them anyway. You should take care of your alkie sibling, because otherwise, who will?, and he'll end up in the gutter. You should do this, you should do that, should, should, should.

I like to get rid of the "shoulds" and say, "who the h3ll are these people, to tell me what I should do?" 'Should' is in the eye of the beholder. I'm doing what needs to be done -- and in this case, it means putting my own oxygen mask on first. It also means staying away from toxic people -- and that means a good part of my extended family.

If I choose not to feel guilty about that -- because, looked at from my viewpoint instead of theirs, there is no need for it.

Speaking of which, my favorite non-program-program book is one called When I Say No, I Feel Guilty, by Manuel J. Smith. It was popular in the '70s, and you can get it for a buck or so in any used bookstore. It's all about systematic assertiveness training, and includes exercises you can do to "practice" saying no. I have found it extremely helpful.

T

youbetcha

I've battled family enmeshment all my life. My parents are wealthy but the alcoholic family stuff is in full effect and goes back generations. When I came into recovery I was married, worked for my Dad making way more than I was worth and felt completely stuck as I began to wake up from the sleep I was in all my life. I realized I had to get my own life, which I did. I also realized my then wife had a money spending problem which constantly had me running back to Daddy to rescue us. I felt like I would die if I didn't get out from under this guy and my then wife was not my team mate in this endeavor, so we eventually divorced. Anyway, after getting divorced I rented a crappy little apartment with room enough for my Daughter when she visited on weekends. It was sad, but I truly had found real peace for the first time in my life. I was now in control of my own life, my finances, nobody undermining me etc. I began getting closer in a healthy way w/my parents again. My boundaries felt clean and it felt as though we had mutual respect for each other. I could be around my parents without getting sucked into their stuff, without being the scapegoat, the caretaker(of Mom) etc. I felt like a man, an adult for the first time in my life. I felt empowered and at peace for a long time. My Dad eventually began talking about "giving" me some money so I could buy a home or a condo. I said great, let's do it. He said there was just one catch, in order to legally "give" me the money the transaction had to be set up as a loan. I questions why? He said legally that's how it's done for tax purposes, but that the loan would be cut and dried "written off" a portion each year so that in 5 years the money would be mine. Bottom line is the guy talked me right into signing myself into a convoluted trap that never gets "written off" and never clearly goes away. Betrayed again! I thought we were past all the b.s., boy was I fooled. I've spent years now trying to get back to the emotional place I was, to untangle this spider web. Why would I expect these people to do anything other than try to suck me back into my role as scapegoat, caretaker etc.?, that's what they know how to do, that's what feels good to them, it's insidious. It's sometimes a very lonely journey through this stuff, because sadly, most people don't understand enmeshment, even though it's rampant in our culture. Thanks.

tromboneliness

I have to put on my Tax Geek™ hat, because that's what I do by day.

I would not recommend this kind of "loan," because your Dad still has to report the "imputed" interest every year -- the interest he would normally have received if the loan had been a true loan to a non-relative. Also, if the IRS ever audits him, they are likely to take one look at this "loan" to his kid and say, "Sorry, pal -- this is a gift, not a loan. Everything over $13,000 a year, you're sending us 55% of it." I can't state for certain that that would happen, but I certainly would not advice a client to do something like that. Families like to do tax shenanigans, thinking they can get away with it -- but the IRS will say "this is not an arm's-length transaction; obviously, he knew he was never going to get paid back."

But this is your father's problem, not yours -- you are allowed to receive gifts tax-free; it's the payor who has to worry about gift taxes (and pay them). And as with any other tax question, the correct answer is "It Depends." There may be other pertinent circumstances that would change things. I'm just sayin' that what you're describing does not sound audit-proof....

T

EveningRose

So much great stuff in this thread I'd like to respond to!

The loans and gifts and feeling stuck:

I realized a few years ago that part of the reason I put up with some of the bad behavior was because my dad was giving and saving me thousands of dollars each year. I came to realize that it was not generosity, but controlling me with money. It made me hesitant to stand up for myself.

At a certain point, as I grew stronger and came to respect myself more, as I came to believe deep inside that I really deserved the same respect I have always given to my family, he said those last few harmful, hurtful words, telling me I deserve to be treated badly (among a great many other things, any one of which might have been the last straw) and there was something in me that would not have been dragged back by any force in nature.

That first year, I was ordered to show up before 8 pm New Year's Eve or lose my Christmas money. I never got the summons because I had blocked his e-mail by then to avoid his lectures and accusations. I only found out because my then husband went, completely by accident scooting in minutes ahead of the deadline without realizing! That, of course, ticked my dad off quite badly, thinking xh was playing games, but oh, well.

I lost nearly a thousand dollars by not going. Shortly after, we paid a plumber $300 to do a job my dad would normally have done for free, including buying the parts. I've lost plenty more over the years and paid out more for services he would have done for me. I'm looking at a massive and much-needed kitchen repair he would have done.

I have never once felt the loss of that money. When the plumber came, it was such a relief and joy to have someone fix my shower without yelling and swearing at me or my children! I have learned in the past several years, as I watch various paid repairmen and male friends fix things around my house, that men can fix things cheerfully, without swearing, without yelling at me. This alone, is a lessons well worth losing all that money for.

The peace of mind in being away from my family's criticisms is well worth the money.

I started working on a business I could run largely over the internet and have done well. Finding how well I can care for myself is well worth the loss of money and has enabled to see how much he was really controlling me with the money, not giving out of love. (The summons proved that.)

Now, unfortunately, he's playing the game with my older kids, always there to loan them money, have that to hold over their heads, and to make himself some interest off my kids. Nothing I can do about that.

Shoulds and Guilt:

I have none. I have found I"m growing stronger, happier, more peaceful, the longer I'm away from them. This makes me a better mother to my children. And a better friend, and a better person, better able to help others.

Also, I simply see no reason to spend my life being berated when I have done nothing wrong. I don't treat them like that, I'm through being treated like that by them, end of story.

DesertEyes--the comment about amends:

Thank you. I've always wondered, as the scapegoated child, what am I supposed to be making amends for? I walked away from it a couple of times, and I had good reason, and I have no intention of making amends for that as I did nothing wrong. Thanks for talking about that and how that step applies to those of us who were not the alcoholics or creating the havoc and misery.

Craziness and Boundaries:

I went no contact with my family in stages. I would have remained on good terms with any of them individually. But with each, I ended up with one final conversation in which I finally understood that they all had the idea that I was, indeed, the family screw-up, and they each believed that they could continue telling me everything they believed I needed to fix, and my job was to listen and obey, end of story.

I went no contact with each as I realized how crazy the behavior was coming from each: a sibling who screamed, red in the face, high volume, for five minutes straight and re-framed it in her mind as, I only pointed out a few things; why are you mad? And later became quite self-righteous, telling me I needed to take responsibility for my part in her screaming. There was no give and take, no acknowledgement that maybe I had a point on anything I said. My feeling: even a broken clock is right twice a day. If she can't acknowledge anything at all that I say, if I'm going to be Wrong On Every Count, there's nowhere left for us to go.

Another sibling who took my daughter to babysit and simply never brought her back. 24 hours later, returning from work, I found she wasn't home. This sibling got mad at ME for saying, "Let me know next time if she's staying longer." Yes, I really said it that mildly. I really only said, "Let me know next time..." And she launched into a tirade about how I was angry, etc. etc. There's no dealing with crazy when she doesn't return my children or inform me of where they are and makes me out to be the problem for asking.

There are many more examples, of being told to do something I already did with no acknowledgement that I had in fact already done exactly that but insisting over and over that I must do what I already was doing--see, even the way I have to emphasize the going in circles shows how crazy it is. Being told that despite juggling 25 things at once, I must simply do better and more (and we're talking about the smallest of details in this case--perhaps leaving a single lego under a chair when I helped the kids clean up after themselves).

Perhaps I've given too many details. Perhaps I'm only venting. Or maybe reading it will help someone else see how crazy it is and find relief in their own lives that they really are NOT crazy trying to deal with similar things.

But as to boundaries, I discovered that speaking calmly and rationally, sticking to facts, helped not at all. In my situation, I found there was no way of setting boundaries that wouldn't be walked all over, where I wouldn't simply be told I was imagining things (literally told that I couldn't object to things because they never happened, and thus left knowing they would continue to happen.)

I finally saw that no contact really was the only option. I feel no guilt for that. I tried everything else first. And I found that they do not value my place in their lives enough to deal with their own upbringing and what it's done to all of us.

Best of luck as you continue this journey.