DavidG

It happens- the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence.

I come from a country where people are cheeky- almost as bad as Australians...

I used to call some of my AA mates 'machine-gun mouths'. They did not seem to have any wiring leading to their ears.

As we say- it looked like their ears were painted on!


That said i went through the stage of being a regular chatter box.


I think there is a lot to be said on this topic... I feel the Mum and Dad programmes, AA and Alanon both held the child side back...

so not to upset people in recovery...!!! ???


Now the dam seems to have burst!

-David.

Kialua

So what was it like for you growing up with one or both parents alcoholic? Are they still alive and how is your relationship with them?

I have never gone to AA. My Dad was in lockup treatment AA at the age of 80. Then he finally stopped drinking. Took a lifetime.

DavidG

I am a grandfather now with 4 3/4 grandchildren.

I made this posting and realised- why am I crying out for these drunks?

My dad died 11 years ago and mum 15 months. Dad had his demons- and he drank for them as well.

Mum socialised with him for a long time- one time she worked behind the bar. She said she saw and heard what being drunk was really like- so she gradually quit after that.

They spit up long after I left home- the day after my youngest brother left school.

My dad lived in a town where where was a pool of drunks- so they never had to drink alone. To him an alcoholic was someone who drank on their own.

He was a gentleman- if a woman was in the bar and someone swore he would go over and quietly tell them not to.

To some of the family he was a quiet gentle man. I got to see his anger and his hurt and his pain.

Around 1990 I went to a recovery centre as a family member. Dad came along for a family week. He said he drank too much but he wasn't an alcoholic. I suppose an alcoholic was someone who wet his pants.

Through Alanon I learned to love him despite the illness. Going there upset some of the family but is was worth it.

I still want a lot more for myself... I know i can get it if I learn to 'let go' a lot more.

Thanks for asking the question Kailua-

aroha-nui,

DavidG

Kialua

Thanks for your story. I guess it's never too late to really work on yourself. Sounds like you are on a good path.

I too, attended my Dad's in house treatment with my family. It was very enlightening. My folks have both passed away and that has added a new drama to my life. Freeing and sad at the same time.

DesertEyes

My father quit drinking long after I left my "family of origin". Even went to AA meetings regular. His personality never changed. He was still the same abusive, arrogant bully he was when drunk, except now he would do it all day long instead of passing out in the evening. He was even married to two women at the same time, while in AA.

I've heard in the meetings that another word for "dry drunk" is "un-drunk".

That was intentional. Drunks will use any excuse to justify their drinking, so the original AA program very carefuly circumvented all possible justifications and focused on the present.

Al-anon was painfuly aware of a drunk's use of all forms of sympathy to enable drinking, and so they also avoided all such topics such as to prevent newbie _alanons_ from falling into that trap.

Over the last 70 years both programs have adapted to the relevant discoveries in mental health. Al-anon has official literature on the subject of ACA, and AA strongly encourages therapy and outside help as needed.

Individual groups and meetings don't always follow the "offical guidance" of the central office, so "your mileage may vary"

Mike
Moderator, SR

DavidG

Mike,

Hmmm. I was thinking of having an 'off the record' chat about the in and outs of ACA and Alanon policy.

[I call it my GOO. my group of origin.] But so not as to bring any group into disrepute.

However you have covered it well... ...I am giving a lot of thought into the two para's I have quoted above.

My dad was a home town drinker. He never stopped... mum mum went to Alanon a few times [she has since passed away]. And she worked in a couple of treatment centres as a nurse.

Our own treatment centre here in NZ did not address family of origin issues.

There were one or two individuals who tried but they did not last long.

In my look the BRB contains some high powered therapy that people might want to try at home.

Do you think so?

Does any of it work?

thanks,

David.

DesertEyes

Anytime, just send me a PM

Most of the ones here in the USA don't address family of origin. Treatment centers handle folks who are just starting their first days of sobriety. Between the medical after-effects of detox and the "brain fog" that can last for months after detox there's really not much point to any effort other than getting them to just not drink.

Most forms of therapy work for some people. There isn't any form that works for _all_ people. That's why the recommendation is to "shop around" until you find something that works for _you_. After a time, people start to heal and might need a different form of therapy to deal with the next "level" of issues. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, people get rid of the "emotional injuries" and have a happy, healthy life.

Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery

DavidG

Ooh.... an opening- a bit of human warmth.... I could bombard you with 20 burning questions...!!!

Or I suppose test your boundaries by sending a dodgy post- and see if you kick me off the board... [just kidding, really....]

Yes i guess i have already sounded you out- and learned a fair bit. Swapping notes and experiences is really valuable...

The Alanon meeting i go to is fragile... my belief is that personal growth is more important than numbers... learning to let go of people who are shopping around... encouraging some form of contact outside of the group to build up trust and confidence...

...I have been around long enough to stay within the Alanon framework. Our group culture is the shuffle the chair around- and get newbies to chair as soon as they are feeling confident enough...

....I can introduce new ideas or strategies when i chair- and see if it sticks...

and I suppose some of this ACA stuff rubs off.

I sometimes wish I was the Rambo of Recovery and had a huge following.!!!

Part of me still dis-associates... the two points you made about why AA and Alanon avoided family of origin stuff- well I can read it but I cannot yet engage with the basic idea.

Maybe the best thing I kin do is spend time thinking about that.

Thanks Mike, and posters...

-DavidG

EveningRose

Dry drunks. My AF was diagnosed as this. In a way, it's better--he wasn't the always-violent, screaming, terror-inducing, embarrassing passed-out-on-the-floor-when-my-friends-came-over type of drunk. He worked and we had a nice home.

In a way, it's worse, because you see so much 'normal' on the surface, that you really wonder if you're crazy thinking something is not quite right. You're more likely to slip into believing you really are all the awful things they said you were.

Even knowing my father had been professionally diagnosed as an alcoholic, it took me years (decades?) to really understand what had gone on and what was going on in my family of origin.

I'm struggling now with reconciling that, and remembering, too (thanks for the reminder Desert Eyes) that it's now about our present and our future, not about the past. I think I've always been good at that, at not making excuses, at simply taking what is and figuring out how to move forward into something better, but it's always a valuable reminder.

DavidG, welcome.

tromboneliness

I didn't really put a label on it until I was 25 or so, and when I was describing my parents to a therapist, he said, "They're alcoholics." I was kind of like, um, well, I don't know, I hadn't really thought of them that way, blah-blah.

He said -- in his usual non-judgmental therapist way -- that what I was describing was the behavior of alcoholics. The fact that they both had steady jobs, hadn't had booze-related health problems, and generally functioned OK wasn't the issue -- you can do all of those things and still be an alcoholic!

That was an important validation of how I was feeling....

T

EveningRose

Yes, Tromboneliness, I think that validation is huge, after a lifetime of being told (at least as I was) that I was imagining things, that we were a wonderful family, that I had every reason to be happy. No, they didn't beat me, we had a beautiful house, they fed me and paid for lessons, etc. But the emotional atmosphere was a barrage of criticism, daily swearing, failure to give any positive or encouraging or uplifting words, grousing, and complaining. I spent high school on the verge of suicide. And I now understand it's not because I was just ungrateful or an inherent emotional wreck. It's because anyone would be suicidal living with such constant negativity, which stemmed from the alcohol.

KuanYin

No, they didn't beat me, we had a beautiful house, they fed me and paid for lessons, etc. But the emotional atmosphere was a barrage of criticism, daily swearing, failure to give any positive or encouraging or uplifting words, grousing, and complaining

Wow, that hits home. I too used to be scolded for not being grateful that at least I didn't get "beat" like some kids. I was made to believe that I had a really good life, so I couldn't figure out what the heck was wrong with me!