Guilt and Blame
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Guilt and Blame
Lately I've really been struggling with guilt and blaming myself for things that, intellectually, I know are not my fault. However, emotionally, I think that there is something I did wrong or could have done differently to make the situation turn out better. In general, I have a hard time knowing my decisions are right. I've read that this is common in adult children of alcoholics, so I thought maybe you all would understand and be able to help me see these things differently.
The first instance is with the A in my life, my father. He has recently started growing up (he's in his 60s) and has actually toned down his drinking. It has been wonderful for my mother and they are much happier now. My dad has become more responsible. The reason for this, I think, is the death of his parents, particularly his father. My dad could never please his father, and I think with his dad's passing, my dad doesn't feel the need to drink to get away from the constant negativity and put-downs. So now here is where I feel guilty and start blaming myself. I remember all of the times when I was living at home that I lashed out at him and criticized him. Now I understand that if I would have been more positive and not so negative, my dad would have responded in a better way (i.e. not drink so much). Without people putting him down, he can be a social drinker and relax. That's how I've seen it play out, anyway. I feel guilty that I could have done more and I didn't. So when it mattered to me, when I lived with him that is, I was actually sabotaging myself.
The second situation is in my most recent relationship. I could get in to a lot more details, but the short of it is that the first person I was with intimately cheated on me and I found out in a very horrible way. So, sex for me is a very traumatic thing. I want the other person to love me before we have sex. I've set that boundary and now I think that because I set it, the last man I dated left because I wasn't meeting his needs, physically. I feel like there are no men out there who would wait until they are in love to have sex. It isn't a religious thing for me at all, I just want to know that the person loves me. I feel guilty because I think that I sabotaged my most recent relationship because I had these unrealistic expectations that a man would love me and tell me so before we had sex. Maybe I just don't understand how the male mind operates? I just feel so guilty and sad.
Thanks for listening.
The first instance is with the A in my life, my father. He has recently started growing up (he's in his 60s) and has actually toned down his drinking. It has been wonderful for my mother and they are much happier now. My dad has become more responsible. The reason for this, I think, is the death of his parents, particularly his father. My dad could never please his father, and I think with his dad's passing, my dad doesn't feel the need to drink to get away from the constant negativity and put-downs. So now here is where I feel guilty and start blaming myself. I remember all of the times when I was living at home that I lashed out at him and criticized him. Now I understand that if I would have been more positive and not so negative, my dad would have responded in a better way (i.e. not drink so much). Without people putting him down, he can be a social drinker and relax. That's how I've seen it play out, anyway. I feel guilty that I could have done more and I didn't. So when it mattered to me, when I lived with him that is, I was actually sabotaging myself.
The second situation is in my most recent relationship. I could get in to a lot more details, but the short of it is that the first person I was with intimately cheated on me and I found out in a very horrible way. So, sex for me is a very traumatic thing. I want the other person to love me before we have sex. I've set that boundary and now I think that because I set it, the last man I dated left because I wasn't meeting his needs, physically. I feel like there are no men out there who would wait until they are in love to have sex. It isn't a religious thing for me at all, I just want to know that the person loves me. I feel guilty because I think that I sabotaged my most recent relationship because I had these unrealistic expectations that a man would love me and tell me so before we had sex. Maybe I just don't understand how the male mind operates? I just feel so guilty and sad.
Thanks for listening.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
CRandall,
I believe that your dad was responsible for his drinking, no one else. Many of us have stressful lives, irritating family members, and if we choose to drink to hide from the situation, it is our choice, no one makes us do it. As a child, you probably suffered in some way from your fathers drinking. That will make a child angry, often. It did me and my siblings, at our mom . There were times she made us very angry with her behavior while drunk, and at times we lashed out. Totally understandable. Children of A's do what they learn, that is, if they are shown inconsideration, they will give inconsideration. Pretty normal behavior in a not normal world, I say.
It serves no purpose to blame yourself. there are the three c's that we talk about here. you did not cause it, you cant control it and you cant cure it. not your fault. at all.
hopefully your father will continue to control his drinking. but that is his work, not your responsibility. have you thought about going to al-anon? you may not be in the home now, but there are probably things you need help with, since you developed according to what you lived. and there is probably a lot of healing for you, so you can be happy in your life.
I understand the not trusting of men. I had an A father too. I think I feel that all men are like that, in the back of my mind, and it affects my relationships. I have always picked men who are unavailable to me, emotionally. I settled way too many times, not knowing what real love is like. or not caring enough about my needs. Heck, I did not know what my needs even were, they were so not acknowledged in my childhood.
Not a bad idea to get to know someone before you give the most intimate of yourself to them. if they dont understand that,then they are probably only thinking of themselves. red flags. learn what they are in relationships. that helps.
Have you read melody beatty's "Codependent No More"? you might find some eye opening things in there that will help you with relationships , and with loving yourself and moving forward.
As far as how the male mind works? I can't tell you that one, but I know that quite a few that I dated were only interested in one thing, over all. I was looking for love, and expecting it to happen, to fill the deficit I had. I needed to love myself first, and that is not something I even knew how to do. I gave my life away, and hoped that would make someone love me. but that isnt how it works.
Sorry you were hurt so much, in such a rotten way. Not all men are like that. Maybe talk to someone about it, read about healthy relationships. Are you drawn to the sort who are "bad boys", so to speak? that usually does not end well.
just wanted to say you are not alone. it is hard to know how to have a loving relationship when you grow up with alcoholism, and especially with an unavailable alcoholic dad. best of luck to you. drop that guilt tho. it is unnecessary baggage...
hug
chicory
I believe that your dad was responsible for his drinking, no one else. Many of us have stressful lives, irritating family members, and if we choose to drink to hide from the situation, it is our choice, no one makes us do it. As a child, you probably suffered in some way from your fathers drinking. That will make a child angry, often. It did me and my siblings, at our mom . There were times she made us very angry with her behavior while drunk, and at times we lashed out. Totally understandable. Children of A's do what they learn, that is, if they are shown inconsideration, they will give inconsideration. Pretty normal behavior in a not normal world, I say.
It serves no purpose to blame yourself. there are the three c's that we talk about here. you did not cause it, you cant control it and you cant cure it. not your fault. at all.
hopefully your father will continue to control his drinking. but that is his work, not your responsibility. have you thought about going to al-anon? you may not be in the home now, but there are probably things you need help with, since you developed according to what you lived. and there is probably a lot of healing for you, so you can be happy in your life.
I understand the not trusting of men. I had an A father too. I think I feel that all men are like that, in the back of my mind, and it affects my relationships. I have always picked men who are unavailable to me, emotionally. I settled way too many times, not knowing what real love is like. or not caring enough about my needs. Heck, I did not know what my needs even were, they were so not acknowledged in my childhood.
Not a bad idea to get to know someone before you give the most intimate of yourself to them. if they dont understand that,then they are probably only thinking of themselves. red flags. learn what they are in relationships. that helps.
Have you read melody beatty's "Codependent No More"? you might find some eye opening things in there that will help you with relationships , and with loving yourself and moving forward.
As far as how the male mind works? I can't tell you that one, but I know that quite a few that I dated were only interested in one thing, over all. I was looking for love, and expecting it to happen, to fill the deficit I had. I needed to love myself first, and that is not something I even knew how to do. I gave my life away, and hoped that would make someone love me. but that isnt how it works.
Sorry you were hurt so much, in such a rotten way. Not all men are like that. Maybe talk to someone about it, read about healthy relationships. Are you drawn to the sort who are "bad boys", so to speak? that usually does not end well.
just wanted to say you are not alone. it is hard to know how to have a loving relationship when you grow up with alcoholism, and especially with an unavailable alcoholic dad. best of luck to you. drop that guilt tho. it is unnecessary baggage...
hug
chicory
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by chicory 
I have always picked men who are unavailable to me, emotionally. I settled way too many times, not knowing what real love is like. or not caring enough about my needs.
I'm no relationship guru, but I have been married for almost 15 years, so at least that's one data point. And I plead guilty to "settling," in the sense that my wife is nowhere near perfect -- as I am nowhere near perfect. Sometimes I think, "How can she be so oblivious to my pain?" But then, I ask her about it, and she says, "I know that at some point, you'll ask for help -- until then, I figure it's better to leave you alone."
For my part, I have to fight a tendency to be self-centered -- any new information is immediately processed in terms of "what does this mean for me?" I have to make a conscious effort, if I want to act properly and in a way that recognizes my wifes needs/wants/opinions/etc.
What it boils down to is that she's got my back, and I've got hers. It's not that we go out of our way to meet one another's needs -- if anything, we both fall short on that, because we both tend to be oblivious, at times. But we also give each other room to screw up, and when one of us screws up, the other does not jump all over him/her. I figure, you give me room to be imperfect, I'll return the favor.
I don't think either one of us has the expectation that this thoroughly imperfect relationship is ever going to get better and be perfect, even if we live to be 110 (a prospect I'm not even slightly interested in!). For me, the question is not "can she meet my needs?," as much as "am I looking externally for someone to meet my needs, or am I looking for someone who can facilitate doing it myself?" Life is all about settling -- there is no person who is going to get straight A's in everything, and you just have to decide what areas you really need someone with an A, and where you're willing to put up with a B-minus. (Or in our case, a D-minus -- my wife is the messiest person I've ever lived with -- so I just accept the fact that I have to do the housekeeping. Hey, I know how to work the vacuum cleaner!)
T
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
Hello CRandall,
Just wanted to pass on what I recently learned in counseling, I raged against my parents, some because of her drinking and verbal/physical abuse, and much because of my fathers draconian rules and punishments.
I have been feeling guilt about how I acted as a teen, but my counselor advised me to remember, I was a teen, my body and mind were growing and changing, any teen struggles even in the best environment, add addiction and abuse to teenage angst shake well and wait for the exsplosion that is 99% likely to happen. So give yourself a break, you were a kid, you did the best you could in a tough situation.
As far as dating and men go, I can tell you that when I was teenager and into my early 20's I was a hound, I would sleep with any girl who wanted to have sex, and at college there were always plenty, much of that had to do with self-esteem, sexual abuse, my fathers definition of manliness, etc. but I was fathful while married, and after my wife cheated and left me for a co-worker, I took a year off from sex, I wanted to find someone to have a real relationship with and I was willing to wait until I was in love and that I knew I met someone I could really trust.
My wife and I met through the personal ads, no internet back then, we wrote back and forth then talked on the phone several times before we met, we were old friends before we ever met.
My suggestion would be to use match.com or one of the other sites and tell people exactly what you want and need, you may meet someone like you who has been burned and wants a real relationship and is willing to wait for it. Those men are out there, it may take some hunting, and you may have to kiss a few frogs, but there are princes, I promise.
I am rooting for you, big hugs and best of luck.
Bill
Just wanted to pass on what I recently learned in counseling, I raged against my parents, some because of her drinking and verbal/physical abuse, and much because of my fathers draconian rules and punishments.
I have been feeling guilt about how I acted as a teen, but my counselor advised me to remember, I was a teen, my body and mind were growing and changing, any teen struggles even in the best environment, add addiction and abuse to teenage angst shake well and wait for the exsplosion that is 99% likely to happen. So give yourself a break, you were a kid, you did the best you could in a tough situation.
As far as dating and men go, I can tell you that when I was teenager and into my early 20's I was a hound, I would sleep with any girl who wanted to have sex, and at college there were always plenty, much of that had to do with self-esteem, sexual abuse, my fathers definition of manliness, etc. but I was fathful while married, and after my wife cheated and left me for a co-worker, I took a year off from sex, I wanted to find someone to have a real relationship with and I was willing to wait until I was in love and that I knew I met someone I could really trust.
My wife and I met through the personal ads, no internet back then, we wrote back and forth then talked on the phone several times before we met, we were old friends before we ever met.
My suggestion would be to use match.com or one of the other sites and tell people exactly what you want and need, you may meet someone like you who has been burned and wants a real relationship and is willing to wait for it. Those men are out there, it may take some hunting, and you may have to kiss a few frogs, but there are princes, I promise.
I am rooting for you, big hugs and best of luck.
Bill
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 22
CRandall,
I can certainly understand the guilt and blame. But it's important to remember that when we're children, our parents' job is to support us and help us grow, NOT the other way round. What a messed up proposition it is for a child to take on the burden of 'helping' their parents succeed at life. This wasn't clear to me until after I had kids of my own, and my counselor pointed out how ridiculous it is for a 30-something to lean on a 7 year old for help coping with life.
Things mom used to say before leaving me at a motel room, or by the train tracks to sell her body for heroin, or from prison, etc.:
I love you and I couldn't live without you.
You're everything to me, the whole world.
If it wasn't for you, I'd be dead already.
And so on...
I understand the shame for not being good enough to save our family from disaster, and when we failed the guilt is almost too much. Absolved from that responsibility we see that we were the ones robbed. Now we can re-parent ourselves in a more healthy way.
As for relationships, I think your best advice comes from Chicory. She is speaking wisdom when she says we must love ourselves before we can truly love another. This is so hard for a codependent to do, but it's necessary to achieve balance and peace.
As for men...Well. Oxytocin is the primary pair bonding hormone in women and can be released as a reward for intimacy (not necessarily sex) and vulnerability. For men the hormone is vasopressin and it floods the brain after sex. In overly libidinous males, it has been reported that they often cannot feel a bond until after they've had sex. Thankfully, our biological drives don't always dictate our behavior. What I did about relationships was get fed up, and leave it alone. I stopped approaching women on a romantic basis or attractive interest. Years later, I ended up marrying my best friend who starting out I wasn't the least bit attracted to. Most men do want sex, but to varying degrees, and it doesn't have to drive our behavior.
If I were to give advice, I would say, take care of you and don't bother looking for a man. If a good one comes along, great. But you get to define what 'good' means. Be at peace with yourself first and make sure you're idea of 'good' is healthy.
I can certainly understand the guilt and blame. But it's important to remember that when we're children, our parents' job is to support us and help us grow, NOT the other way round. What a messed up proposition it is for a child to take on the burden of 'helping' their parents succeed at life. This wasn't clear to me until after I had kids of my own, and my counselor pointed out how ridiculous it is for a 30-something to lean on a 7 year old for help coping with life.
Things mom used to say before leaving me at a motel room, or by the train tracks to sell her body for heroin, or from prison, etc.:
I love you and I couldn't live without you.
You're everything to me, the whole world.
If it wasn't for you, I'd be dead already.
And so on...
I understand the shame for not being good enough to save our family from disaster, and when we failed the guilt is almost too much. Absolved from that responsibility we see that we were the ones robbed. Now we can re-parent ourselves in a more healthy way.
As for relationships, I think your best advice comes from Chicory. She is speaking wisdom when she says we must love ourselves before we can truly love another. This is so hard for a codependent to do, but it's necessary to achieve balance and peace.
As for men...Well. Oxytocin is the primary pair bonding hormone in women and can be released as a reward for intimacy (not necessarily sex) and vulnerability. For men the hormone is vasopressin and it floods the brain after sex. In overly libidinous males, it has been reported that they often cannot feel a bond until after they've had sex. Thankfully, our biological drives don't always dictate our behavior. What I did about relationships was get fed up, and leave it alone. I stopped approaching women on a romantic basis or attractive interest. Years later, I ended up marrying my best friend who starting out I wasn't the least bit attracted to. Most men do want sex, but to varying degrees, and it doesn't have to drive our behavior.
If I were to give advice, I would say, take care of you and don't bother looking for a man. If a good one comes along, great. But you get to define what 'good' means. Be at peace with yourself first and make sure you're idea of 'good' is healthy.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks, everyone, for your very kind responses. I am reading "Codependency No More" right now, actually. It is helping. But intellectually understanding something and then knowing it in your heart is a different thing.
Chicory asked if I am attracted to "bad boys." No, I'm not. The men I have been with are, on the surface, very successful, driven, outgoing, and have lots of friends. The recurring theme is that they have all been emotionally unavailable or selfish. Some of them are now happily married, some of them are not. The common denominator between them is me - they all left me because they knew it wasn't going to work out long-term. Some gave legitimate reasons, others did not. One was so cowardly that he cheated on me and rubbed it in my face with the evidence. Another broke up with me three days after the most romantic and best weekend of our relationship up to that point. I'm guessing these last two were just emotionally unavailable and couldn't go on further, for whatever reason. I've posted before about my abandonment issues, and that is really the main fear. It seems like everyone leaves me for better things. They use me when it is good for them, then throw me away when they have no use for me anymore. I always end up feeling guilty after the breakups because I think that I did something wrong and that it was my fault that they left. Just like it always felt like my fault for not being able to help my dad stop drinking when I was a child.
I'll try my best to throw away the guilt from my childhood, but I think the hardest thing is I think maybe I could have helped myself, and I didn't. But I guess it is true that I was a child and didn't have the psychological capacity or awareness to know that I couldn't change my dad's behavior.
Oh, and it isn't like the guys I'm dating are in their early 20s and only thinking about sex. They are in their late 20s, as am I. It just seems like it is expected that a woman should sleep with a man during the first month or two, but I want to wait to see if this guy is really worth giving the most intimate part of me to. I don't know that after only a month.
I do have trust issues, and it makes me feel better that other women with alcoholic fathers suffer the same thing. It was hard growing up with an emotionally unavailable man. I don't know how to relate to men because of it. But I want to get married and have a family someday, so I need to figure it out. I guess I could just be a single parent and adopt...
Chicory asked if I am attracted to "bad boys." No, I'm not. The men I have been with are, on the surface, very successful, driven, outgoing, and have lots of friends. The recurring theme is that they have all been emotionally unavailable or selfish. Some of them are now happily married, some of them are not. The common denominator between them is me - they all left me because they knew it wasn't going to work out long-term. Some gave legitimate reasons, others did not. One was so cowardly that he cheated on me and rubbed it in my face with the evidence. Another broke up with me three days after the most romantic and best weekend of our relationship up to that point. I'm guessing these last two were just emotionally unavailable and couldn't go on further, for whatever reason. I've posted before about my abandonment issues, and that is really the main fear. It seems like everyone leaves me for better things. They use me when it is good for them, then throw me away when they have no use for me anymore. I always end up feeling guilty after the breakups because I think that I did something wrong and that it was my fault that they left. Just like it always felt like my fault for not being able to help my dad stop drinking when I was a child.
I'll try my best to throw away the guilt from my childhood, but I think the hardest thing is I think maybe I could have helped myself, and I didn't. But I guess it is true that I was a child and didn't have the psychological capacity or awareness to know that I couldn't change my dad's behavior.
Oh, and it isn't like the guys I'm dating are in their early 20s and only thinking about sex. They are in their late 20s, as am I. It just seems like it is expected that a woman should sleep with a man during the first month or two, but I want to wait to see if this guy is really worth giving the most intimate part of me to. I don't know that after only a month.
I do have trust issues, and it makes me feel better that other women with alcoholic fathers suffer the same thing. It was hard growing up with an emotionally unavailable man. I don't know how to relate to men because of it. But I want to get married and have a family someday, so I need to figure it out. I guess I could just be a single parent and adopt...
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
Sometimes at the least expected time you get what you've always needed and never even knew you wanted. . .
at 44 yrs old ~ after leaving my ah of 17 yrs, going thru the horror story of divorce, blah blah blah ~ I met MrPINKAcres ~ Is he perfect? NO - Is he perfect for me? yes!
During the last 3 years of my marriage ~ I did extensive work on ME ~ I wanted something different for my life so I willingly listened to the suggestions given to me by other ACOA's & Al-Anoners on how they had changed their lives, thinking, actions & reactions ~ I learned healthy people attract healthy people ~
I truly believe when the time is right, that when we get healthier we attract healthier people ~
Yes please let go of the unrealistic guilt from your childhood ~
You didn't cause it
You couldn't control it
You couldn't cure it
Your father suffers from a disease that only he and his HP can take care of ~
Set yourself free from that guilt and enjoy your life!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
at 44 yrs old ~ after leaving my ah of 17 yrs, going thru the horror story of divorce, blah blah blah ~ I met MrPINKAcres ~ Is he perfect? NO - Is he perfect for me? yes!
During the last 3 years of my marriage ~ I did extensive work on ME ~ I wanted something different for my life so I willingly listened to the suggestions given to me by other ACOA's & Al-Anoners on how they had changed their lives, thinking, actions & reactions ~ I learned healthy people attract healthy people ~
I truly believe when the time is right, that when we get healthier we attract healthier people ~
Yes please let go of the unrealistic guilt from your childhood ~
You didn't cause it
You couldn't control it
You couldn't cure it
Your father suffers from a disease that only he and his HP can take care of ~
Set yourself free from that guilt and enjoy your life!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks, Rita, for those encouraging words.
I've started going to Al-Anon, but I've only gone to three meetings. It is a start! I want to be emotionally healthy and have fulfilling relationships. I hope this community and the one I have found at the meetings will help me get there.
I've started going to Al-Anon, but I've only gone to three meetings. It is a start! I want to be emotionally healthy and have fulfilling relationships. I hope this community and the one I have found at the meetings will help me get there.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by Keyn
when we're children, our parents' job is to support us and help us grow, NOT the other way round.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Originally Posted by CRandall
I'll try my best to throw away the guilt from my childhood, but I think the hardest thing is I think maybe I could have helped myself, and I didn't.
I do have trust issues, and it makes me feel better that other women with alcoholic fathers suffer the same thing. It was hard growing up with an emotionally unavailable man. I don't know how to relate to men because of it. But I want to get married and have a family someday, so I need to figure it out. I guess I could just be a single parent and adopt...
I do have trust issues, and it makes me feel better that other women with alcoholic fathers suffer the same thing. It was hard growing up with an emotionally unavailable man. I don't know how to relate to men because of it. But I want to get married and have a family someday, so I need to figure it out. I guess I could just be a single parent and adopt...
I remember all of the times when I was living at home that I lashed out at him and criticized him. Now I understand that if I would have been more positive and not so negative, my dad would have responded in a better way (i.e. not drink so much).
What sucks about alcoholic parents is that when you dare to stand up for how hurt their behavior has you feeling inside, their response can really teach you that you're not worthy of love and attention, when really it is healthy to be upset when someone ignores you for something like alcohol. You don't ever get the credit you need to know you're on the right track -- that YES it's okay to angry about being emotionally neglected. Now what about the next step? You know, where you get to learn more adult ways to express it so it doesn't come off as tantrum-throwing teenager. Yeah, see, that's the step ACOAs miss out on -- that moderate step, somewhere in between the black and white.
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