Suppressed memories or what?
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Suppressed memories or what?
Hi, my RABF has a late paternal grandfather who died in his mid-fifties of an alcohol-related heart attack. In their family though, he is like, The Man That Nobody Talks About. Among the very little information I know, his wife ran away to live with her sister for a time because his alcoholism had gotten so bad. Towards the end of his life, he was hospitalized and the doctors told him he had five months to live, he believed the doctors were wrong and wanted to "show" them and to beat them at their own game; he lived four months. He died about two years before RABF was born.
He is never talked about; do you think it is possible he was abusive to his wife and sons? And that they suppressed every memory of his existence?
I come from a large extended family where everybody knows everything about each other, and six of my uncles are recovering alcoholics. This concept of sweeping things under the rug is just a little weird to me.
He is never talked about; do you think it is possible he was abusive to his wife and sons? And that they suppressed every memory of his existence?
I come from a large extended family where everybody knows everything about each other, and six of my uncles are recovering alcoholics. This concept of sweeping things under the rug is just a little weird to me.
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IME (with my family and my xah's family) there are things not talked about, swept under the rug, ignored, avoided, or forgotten and that is just how they are handled. It isn't repressed. People remember just fine they just don't talk about it. His wife and children most likely didn't have an easy life whether there was abuse or not.
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In my family, we were flat out told "you don't talk about that!" (pick any ol' thing to substitute for "that").
No one talks about the elephant in the living room. They just don't. And so we didn't.
It was not repressed or suppressed memories - we all remembered just fine. But no one would talk about it openly. People who have been long dead aren't talked about. People who are still living aren't talked about. Actions and behaviors aren't talked about.
That is changing with my generation, but in many families, the culture of secrecy pervades through the generations.
No one talks about the elephant in the living room. They just don't. And so we didn't.
It was not repressed or suppressed memories - we all remembered just fine. But no one would talk about it openly. People who have been long dead aren't talked about. People who are still living aren't talked about. Actions and behaviors aren't talked about.
That is changing with my generation, but in many families, the culture of secrecy pervades through the generations.
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my grandfather died of a stroke in detox from alcohol when my father was a kid.
no one ever talked about him - my father or grandma - beyond shallow descriptions.
but we did know he was a drunk.
two years ago my grandma decided to really talk about her dead ex husband in front of all of us. it was a very real, no bs conversation and my dad ran out of the room crying and inconsolable(descriptions of domestic abuse, alcoholism). my grandmother cried too, of course.
like everyone else is saying, people usually remember. but they don't want to think too hard about it.
with alcohol domestic abuse is a definite possibility. but even when it doesn't occur, things can still be traumatic. and the pain is not something many people are willing to talk about - silence is just a way of forgetting. but i guess you are seeing how keeping quiet about events doesn't negate their power to effect people - if anything, the repercussions thrive in the darkness, where life is unexamined. the trade off for ignoring pain is usually prolonging it
no one ever talked about him - my father or grandma - beyond shallow descriptions.
but we did know he was a drunk.
two years ago my grandma decided to really talk about her dead ex husband in front of all of us. it was a very real, no bs conversation and my dad ran out of the room crying and inconsolable(descriptions of domestic abuse, alcoholism). my grandmother cried too, of course.
like everyone else is saying, people usually remember. but they don't want to think too hard about it.
with alcohol domestic abuse is a definite possibility. but even when it doesn't occur, things can still be traumatic. and the pain is not something many people are willing to talk about - silence is just a way of forgetting. but i guess you are seeing how keeping quiet about events doesn't negate their power to effect people - if anything, the repercussions thrive in the darkness, where life is unexamined. the trade off for ignoring pain is usually prolonging it
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Originally Posted by choublak 
But, let's say alcoholism runs in your family. You have a child who is found to have a drinking problem when he/she is in their mid-twenties. Wouldn't you want to openly talk about it?
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Originally Posted by ColetteTocca
Logic would tell you YES. But then again alcoholic families aren't usually logical. They thrive on denial which of course is somewhat of an obstacle to admitting there is a problem in the first place. What you are describing is more of the exception, rather than the rule.
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Seriously
ETA: Sorry - I should elaborate a bit.
That is very true. IME even when it was mentioned that someone was an alcoholic it was not talked about like we read here on SR. There was no counseling, no AA, no nothing. The fact was mentioned, some horror shared, but it was a memory. Nothing was related to people still alive or current behavior.
I have began sharing some information with my son. Slowly - what I think he can handle and what he needs. Thank heavens for SR or I don't know if I would. It isn't natural. I mean - I know it is right and natural to talk about things and relate the past to the present etc. but it doesn't feel natural because it is not what I know.
ETA: Sorry - I should elaborate a bit.
That is very true. IME even when it was mentioned that someone was an alcoholic it was not talked about like we read here on SR. There was no counseling, no AA, no nothing. The fact was mentioned, some horror shared, but it was a memory. Nothing was related to people still alive or current behavior.
I have began sharing some information with my son. Slowly - what I think he can handle and what he needs. Thank heavens for SR or I don't know if I would. It isn't natural. I mean - I know it is right and natural to talk about things and relate the past to the present etc. but it doesn't feel natural because it is not what I know.
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Originally Posted by choublak
Even the family members who aren't alcoholics?
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Originally Posted by ColetteTocca
Absolutely. IME the co-dependents in the family are often the ones most invested in denying the problem. The children of the family quickly learn that you don't discuss the obvious and then before you know it avoidance and denial becomes a multi-generational coping mechanism for a whole host of problems, not just alcoholism.
It seems unfair to speculate that because they don't often talk about him that he must have been abusive.
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There is lots and lots of denial in my family. It is especially bad on my dad's side of the family where almost all the men are alcoholics. I think that younger generations are talking about it more, which is a good thing. I think that the way things used to be dealt with were to not talk about it at all. In my case, they were all abusive. However, I don't think it has to mean that. It could be that they don't talk about it because it's painful. Or, maybe they just prefer to move on with their lives. Or, it could mean that everybody wants to pretend everything is good when it isn't. Who knows?
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The children of the family quickly learn that you don't discuss the obvious and then before you know it avoidance and denial becomes a multi-generational coping mechanism
But I decided that I had the option of refusing the family heirlooms. Just because you inherit something doesn't mean you have to keep it. I've chosen to throw away the avoidance and denial. I've earned the wrath of many of my family members for doing so. No more secrets. No more hiding. No more pretending that what exists doesn't exist. No more blaming others, no more acting a part. This is my life. I claim it as mine and I will run it as mine, true to my beliefs and without regard for the family heirlooms that wreck such havoc on a person's psyche.
That I talk about my family dysfunction makes me an outlier. It also makes many people who are not related to me draw back. Many people are confused as to what to say or how to behave around someone who is honest about their family issues.
My dad is in jail - or what's left of him. I don't know if the alcohol destroyed him or if he was already on the precipice and the alcohol was the only thing holding him away from the edge. Doesn't matter. My mom has dementia. The day my dad was arrested, my job (as given to me by the police) was to get my mom out of the house and keep her somewhere safe. When I picked her up and broke the news to her, I promised her that I couldn't protect her from his actions, but I would do everything in my power to protect her from the fallout. I can look myself in the mirror each day and feel at peace with myself. I am doing what I can to protect my mom both from the fallout of this and from her own dementia - neither of which she has any control over.
But even people from non-ACoA homes struggle with my honesty. It makes them incredibly uncomfortable. Why? Because people in ACoA homes DON'T talk about it. They cover it up. It's shameful, and our society will embrace and have sympathy for alcoholics because they have a disease - yet society can't quite accept or have sympathy for the fallout from it. It is perhaps too close to home, or perhaps too naked a truth.
So it gets covered up, and each generation down the line learns that it is to be covered up - some learn by watching the family, some by intimidation, some by violence, some by all three or different means. I was taught that we don't air the dirty laundry, a lesson taught by intimidation and violence. No more.
But again, I am unusual in that regard. And I make people uncomfortable. And I know that that is the price I pay for refusing to "play the game."
In the early to mid 70s, rape victims were usually treated as social pariahs and blamed for being victims. A cultural shift happened as the result of more and more victims being fed up with being told it was their fault. The victims started talking, and the more who spoke loudly, the less the world vilified the victim. I am a victim and I will talk. I hope that eventually this subject will stop being so taboo and more of us can speak freely.
Until that time comes, we will talk in hushed voices and make excuses and cover up to all except the others who understand us.
Yes, seriously, people do not talk about the problems within their families. Especially not when the entire rest of society shrinks back from the subject.
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Originally Posted by GingerM
I call those the "family heirlooms." .
And I agree with you completely that by not being silent, by speaking out, by yes, making people uncomfortable (people get uncomfortable when you yank off their blanket of denial!) you have the opportunity to 'disinherit' the legacy.
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Originally Posted by Hanna
I don't see why anyone in the family would necessarily bother mentioning something that happened before someone was born, to a person that's dating them.
Originally Posted by Hanna
It seems unfair to speculate that because they don't often talk about him that he must have been abusive.
I apologize if you were offended.
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