Complete No Contact with the family

Old 10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
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Complete No Contact with the family

and amazed how this works.

I had written several posts about the pain I was going through watching my family fall apart. Problems with stepmom, bizarre things (having streetmen move in to take care of my ailing elderly father), relationship with my sisters faltering who were my main social outlet.

Then this past summer made the decision to go full No Contact.

Had a very brief conversation with my dad. A brief one with my sister, which included letting her know I did not want to visit.

It was very hard to do this.

But once done and got distance - true distance you get by not even talking to the dysfunctionals - you get such clarity on what nonsense you had been putting up with.

I really was upset the family had fallen apart, but have slowly been building my social life (wrong to make your family your only social outlet - learned that here).

If they called I probably would not even bother to answer and if they did it would be with total neutral interest.

And I used to hope a phone call was from an estranged sister - now would not even want her back in my life.

Dysfunctional families really probably don't need each other at all after a certain point of all the pain that has been caused and heaped on each other even fully in adulthood.

"Calm unconcern" was a phrase I read here on some post once and does that ever apply and confuses them also.

The painful separating from them was so hard and was so depressing and actually felt grief. But not any longer, you accept it and actually makes you feel better to be away from the toxicity. A happier, calmer, 'how could I ever had even been around those people' takes over.

Thank you to this forum for helping us with what to do and make these decisions.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:30 PM
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I haven't talked to my father in 5 years. A good 5 years. Last month my step mother finds me on facebook. I figure what the heck. I friend her back. Soon after she suggests that I send my father a friend request. Reluctantly I do. He accepts. I begin to decide on boundaries and such. The very next day, with no interaction what so ever, he unfriends me. Yep. No contact is the way to go.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:06 AM
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I've gone no contact many times with several family members.

I've never regretted it either.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:41 AM
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It's sort of a relief to hear this from others. I have had virtually no contact for 4 years and don't miss them at all. Those who have not been there are sometimes of the mind that SURELY I'll regret this and when they die, I'll mourn all the lost moments. All I can think is: what lost moments? The lost chance to be yelled at and publicly humiliated? The lost chance to be told I'm not quite good enough? The lost chance to be told I'm annoying and deserve to be kicked around verbally? The lost chance to be told that my siblings are somehow better and deserve to be treated better than me and the reason I treat them well is NOT because I'm a good person but because they are?

Nope, I'm not missing their company at all. I've set things in the past often enough to be confident that I'm capable of and willing to forgive and this is finally about boundaries, not about grudges as they of course would tell me it is.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:01 AM
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I've said it before, I really don't care if these monsters love me. I've forgiven them and got on with my life. But that in no way means I stayed in their sick games. Even my siblings are all at odds with one another, all six of us. Sure I miss the fantasy of the nice family get togethers but at what price. No thanks.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:05 AM
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i find its a relief to go no contact....I lost alot of friend/family after my husband died...but i now know that i would have walked away in time anyhow.....

hear that?...its QUIET
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:27 AM
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I've gone no contact.Now to stop the constant conversations I still keep having with my AM in myown head!urghhhhhh
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:36 AM
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(((missg))) - welcome to SR! I don't technically belong in this forum, as I am not an ACOA, but the great people here have taught me much in dealing with my family that has become dysfunctional as I've gotten older.

I've had arguments and conversations, in my head, with my family but have tried to distract myself when I do that. Not sure that is the answer, but it does help. Accepting what is, and not dwelling on what should or could be also seems to help.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by EveningRose View Post
It's sort of a relief to hear this from others. I have had virtually no contact for 4 years and don't miss them at all. Those who have not been there are sometimes of the mind that SURELY I'll regret this and when they die, I'll mourn all the lost moments. All I can think is: what lost moments? The lost chance to be yelled at and publicly humiliated? The lost chance to be told I'm not quite good enough? The lost chance to be told I'm annoying and deserve to be kicked around verbally? ....

Nope, I'm not missing their company at all. I've set things in the past often enough to be confident that I'm capable of and willing to forgive and this is finally about boundaries, not about grudges as they of course would tell me it is.
Just noticed this thread. I appreciate all the shares. Thank you for this conversation.

EveningRose's share makes my heart squeeze because this is how I feel. It's a real taboo in my family to think like this. In my family, the dysfunction required that I didn't get my needs met. There wasn't enough to go around so my portion went to people who were sicker/being threatened by drug dealers/being bailed out of jail/were drunk/etc.

I've been No Contact with my older sister for 1.5 years. My pattern is that I let her bully and control me, to the point of severe mental and physical distress. She has a serious physical illness that affects her cognitive function One of the overlays is "She can't help it. You know that's just how she is. She's not well. Stop being so selfish and self-adsorbed. You are stronger so you have to suck it up." She's like an energy vampire.

I have a voice in my head that says, "Once you are Recovered you will be able to make everything good and fix everything." That is the voice of my Addictive Codependency talking, as seductive as an Alcoholic Voice. A healthy voice would say, "Why on earth would you spend holidays with people who treat you like dirt?"

I got the "you are holding a grudge and you will regret it" speech from my step-mom a few months ago.

It is unbelievably comforting to share these feelings without being judged. It's all still a jumble but I feel like I'm moving towards clarity.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:54 AM
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I think it's pretty common to hear the "old tapes" of the dysfunctional members going through our heads, even when we're no contact.

I used to have conversations with various toxic people in my head. I'm not entirely sure when it stopped or why. I suppose I hit a point where I'd let go of all the horrible stuff they said to me and didn't believe it one jot, so didn't feel the need to argue with it anymore.

But the "old tapes" are still there, telling me I'm stupid or worthless or calling me a ***** or whatever it is. When those pop up, I remind myself that "that is not your voice" over and over again. It helps that my husband tells me the same thing when one of those old tapes actually gets spoken aloud (to myself, usually putting myself down). One day I asked him how he knew that it was not my voice, how could he be sure that I didn't think that? He replied that I would never say that to anyone else in the same circumstances (for instance, if someone were to break a glass in my house, I wouldn't think twice about it, I'd just clean it up and move on, graciously accepting their apology - but I would spend the next 24 hours beating myself up over it if I did it).

I thought a lot about my husband's comment. For quite a while, I used to tell myself "Treat yourself the way you would treat others - that is not your voice." And I would force myself (often out loud) to say to myself what I would say to someone else in the same situation. Then I got to where I could instantly identify what was my voice and what was not my voice. Then I started attempting some evictions: "You're not my voice...You! Out!" I still will say "You're not my voice" out loud.

I do still slip into arguing with toxic people in my head. I believe it's a way of trying to resolve things, trying to create a different ending to a bad situation. To limit that, I started keeping a journal where I write letters to the various people I'm "arguing" with. I put it all in there (especially if it's keeping me from sleeping). It often brings me to tears. Something about seeing it on paper... I don't ever plan on sharing my collection of letters with anyone, but it is very cathartic to get it out on paper. And it does seem to end the 'argument'.

But even now, when I've walked pretty far down the path of recovery, I still have arguments in my head with toxic people (not always family members, there are plenty of toxic people to go around in this world). Sometimes I succeed in putting it where the blame lies "Well, this will probably never resolve, the problem lies with them, not me, and I can't change them." Sometimes the recognition of a lack of possible resolution is resolution itself.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:32 AM
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Awesome post, Ginger.
Sometimes the recognition of a lack of possible resolution is resolution itself.
This is a very powerful statement. One which is very useful , to me for sure.

thanks and hugs,
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by frances2011 View Post
Just noticed this thread. I appreciate all the shares. Thank you for this conversation.

EveningRose's share makes my heart squeeze because this is how I feel. It's a real taboo in my family to think like this. In my family, the dysfunction required that I didn't get my needs met... I got the "you are holding a grudge and you will regret it" speech from my step-mom a few months ago.
I haven't officially gone No Contact™ with my extended family -- but I sure have gone Next To No Contact!

In this family dynamic, there's no need to say, "I am going No Contact -- henceforth, I will not see any of you." You can just let go of the rope. Don't answer the phone -- or take a long time to call back, and make sure you do it when there isn't much time to talk.

My favorite tactic, with my sister, is that I tend not to answer if I'm at home, but if I'm in the middle of a bowling tournament or something and the phone rings and it's her, I answer, and just talk for a minute or two and then say, "Whoops -- gotta go, it's my turn!" That takes care of my "obligation" to talk to her, but with a minimum of time-wasting!

T
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tromboneliness View Post
I haven't officially gone No Contact™ with my extended family -- but I sure have gone Next To No Contact!

In this family dynamic, there's no need to say, "I am going No Contact -- henceforth, I will not see any of you." You can just let go of the rope. Don't answer the phone -- or take a long time to call back, and make sure you do it when there isn't much time to talk.

T
This is the way I did it. I never announced I was going no contact. As per someone else's response above, I finally just asked myself, why in the world would I want to spend holidays with people who treat me poorly? So I didn't go the next year. Of course, living this close, that made my intentions pretty obvious without speaking them out loud, but that couldn't be helped.

I have found in the last week or so that those voices in the head are diminishing. I can't even remember if it's been 4 or 5 years since I quit spending holidays with them, 3 or 4 years since I've talked much to my dad? I really don't know. And it's taken this long, but all of a sudden, I realized I'm going entire days without thinking about them.

I think Ginger is right. When we come to believe in our hearts that we weren't the problem, the need to argue goes away. Maybe as we come to fully understand there's no resolution, the need to try to get one goes away.

For me, I've put a lot of energy into pursuing the life I dreamed of, doing the things I always wanted to, and bit by bit, I've become so busy with those, I've forgotten to think about my parents and their ugly criticisms. By strange coincidences, I've ended up friends at church with some of the older women who have been my mother's friends for 30 years, and after years of worrying what all these women at church must think of me, given the things my mother says about me, I've come to find out that they're not too impressed with or swayed by her stories. It's sad, it's pathetic, to find out how your mother is regarded by others. It hurts to find your mother is the one nobody wants to sit by.

And yet...I think it is one of the things that has freed me, to discover that the rest of the world DOES see the craziness for what it is, and sees good in me. I have discovered I don't need to defend myself to my parents, because my life of integrity has spoken volumes without me ever saying a word to these people at church. I have found out my parents' words are backfiring on them.

It's sad, but it's freeing.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:41 AM
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to discover that the rest of the world DOES see the craziness for what it is, and sees good in me. I have discovered I don't need to defend myself to my parents, because my life of integrity has spoken volumes without me ever saying a word to these people at church. I have found out my parents' words are backfiring on them.
I found this out from other family members. Discovering that my grandmother and my Uncle believed me all my life, even when I was in single-digits in age, and didn't believe my mom (or even my dad necessarily), was eye-opening. And liberating. And a huge weight was lifted.

They still wouldn't talk about the elephant in the living room (this was years ago), but in private, they acknowledged it to me. That made a HUGE difference in how I led my life.

To everyone else who may still be wondering if the problem is with them: it's not. You're not the crazy one. There IS an elephant in the living room, you didn't put it there, and you can't remove it. You don't need other people to acknowledge it, and you will drive yourself crazy attempting to get them to admit the elephant's existance. But I will admit to you that the elephant is in your living room, that it has always been there, and that you didn't put it there.

For several years before my dad was arrested, I considered going no contact. Now that we're in a court enforced no contact, I realize that I didn't need to go no contact, I needed to go "no crazy." I have changed the way I react to the world, I can control that. If other people want to be crazy, that's their business. But I refuse to be. So I do my best to stay centered on me, to keep my crazy to myself and not inflict it on others, to not allow the elephant into my house.

I don't think I could go no contact entirely. But I do know that I can go "no crazy."
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:35 AM
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Ginger, I'd love to hear more about what it means to go 'no crazy.' How does this look and sound in interactions with your family?
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:25 PM
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Before my dad was in jail, when he called here and was stupid drunk, I would find a rapid excuse to get off the phone. To avoid the crazy coming back later to bite me because I hurried him off the phone, I would call him back when I knew he would be busy and tell him I was returning his call because I had time. Of course, he'd be busy so he'd hurry me off the phone, but he wasn't being completely crazy then. So I set up a situation to limit my exposure to the crazy.

My mom's crazy is more organic, and I'm fairly certain she's got a mental illness of some sort. But even there, there are ways I can work around her triggers most of the time.

And when I couldn't work around the triggers, I would pull inside myself. I would tell myself that I need (as in "my need", not as in "their expectations") to treat people with respect and dignity, or at least civility and politeness - I would focus on doing just that and insist to myself that I would at least treat my parents, no matter how crazy they chose to be, with the same level or civility and politeness that I would treat someone in line at the bank or the grocery store.

It was a lot of work, but I could look myself in the mirror the next day and compliment myself on staying centered on me and not getting sucked into their crazy. I decided to go "no crazy". They can keep all their crazy for themselves.

Now that my mom has dementia, it's drastically lessened her crazy. She's kind of sheep-like. And with my dad in jail, and him not allowed to contact me in any way, the complete lack of crazy has allowed me to build on my skills of staying "no crazy". I have other non-relatives who bring plenty of crazy into my world - one of my coworkers is at least as crazy as my family. I practice on her - when she gets in her crazy place, I practice being who I want to be, no matter what her behavior is.

The good thing about this is that it makes me feel amazingly strong. That I can walk away (mentally or physically) from the crazy is incredibly empowering. That I can hold my head high and have nothing to chastise myself about in my own behavior is also incredibly empowering.

That doesn't mean that I don't occasionally want to reach out and throttle someone, but I am now able to check that emotion and shift into "stranger in line with me" mode. I can hold my head up high and say genuinely that I did not participate in the crazy.

I'm not sure if this is a good explanation - it wasn't something I read in a book or heard from anyone else. One day I just decided that I didn't like how I felt when I got sucked into their crazy world. I'm not a mean person or an ugly person or a terribly judgmental person. I'm not violent and I don't enjoy insulting people. It doesn't make me feel powerful to yell or scream at others or put them down. It DOES make me feel powerful to bend and sway like a palm tree in a hurricane - still standing after the storm has passed, when all others have been destroyed. It looks like weakness from the outside to some people, but when they try to bully me, it doesn't work and it really really frustrates them to not be successful in bullying me, while I give them absolutely no reason to yell at me or accuse me of being horrible. What can they accuse me of? Being polite? Oh, that looks ... even more crazy than whatever they started with.

My coworker once accused me rather loudly, and in front of most of the rest of the company, of thinking she was stupid (I believe her exact words were "I know you think I'm stupid, you've thought I was stupid ever since we started working here.") I was surprised at her accusation (it kind of came out of the blue) and everyone else stopped to see how this was going to play out. I calmly said "I never said that, and I don't believe it about you. You said that. If that is how you feel about yourself, I am truly sorry to hear it." She was gobsmacked, everyone else started breathing again, and that was the end of that. I didn't get sucked into her crazy. I put her crazy back at her feet again, and told her, in essence, that I was truly sorry she was carrying so much crazy with her, while refusing to accept the crazy she was attempting to give me.

There are so many different ways that can play out. My dad once, when drunk, told me that my husband was a total loser and he couldn't believe that both of his daughters grew up to marry such losers. I replied that I was sorry he felt that way about my husband, especially as I was still very much in love with my husband and had no plans of being rid of him.

I guess I see it as someone trying to hand me a package of crazy. They hand it to me, but I don't have to accept it from them. So I say "gee, that looks like a lovely pile of crazy you have there, but I think I'll have to decline the offer." Nothing says I have to accept the package of crazy from them, I can hand it right back (metaphorically/verbally) and let them sit with it. I've found it to be a remarkably good tool to use with ANY crazy person - work, home, family, strangers, anyone really.

And if a tiny bit of kindness is thrown in, it confuses them no end - as I did when I told my coworker that I didn't think she was stupid and that I was truly sorry if she felt that way about herself. And y'know what? I really am truly sorry for her if she feels that way about herself - what a sad existence to always believe one is stupid. The tiny bit of kindness seems to knock them off of the rails, and they don't know what to do. It's like they're expecting resistance, but end up discovering that what they thought was solid is actually just fog. (There is also a technique called "fogging", but that's a different technique than what I do)

I hope I'm making some sense here. I know what it feels like better than I can describe it. What it feels like is as if I have decided that I am whole, I am strong, I am capable, I am humane and I am empowered to behave in manners befitting my personal beliefs of how humans ought to treat each other. It's a very strong position to come to, even if it is perceived as weak initially.
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