Feeling bad for speaking up
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7
Feeling bad for speaking up
Hi all,
Another newbie here, and I am so sorry this is so long. I've never done this before, so I have a lot to get out. My biological father (I have a stepdad who raised me with my mom) and I have always had a strained relationship, mostly due to the fact that he is an alcoholic and has been for as long as I can remember. He used to "party" a lot more when I was younger than he does now, and he wouldn't stop just because he had visitation with me. I was usually just brought along to go out with his friends, or he'd leave me at home to go out with his friends. I remember him driving drunk with me in the car plenty of times, and I remember bringing it up when I got to be a teenager, which only resulted in one of the scariest car rides of my life (he got irate and started speeding and driving very recklessly). He had/has the typical alcoholic's problems: not a lot of money (enough to spend on booze though), didn't pay his child support most of the time, didn't satisfy any kind of parental duties, made broken promises to me growing up, etc etc.
I know this was one of the huge problems my mom had when she divorced him, along with his problem with various drugs- heroin, cocaine, I don't know what else. I remember being a teenager and finding a small mirror and rolled up dollar bill in one of his cabinets. He is a typical alcoholic. He is always right, he always has someone else to blame, you are always wrong, he can rationalize everything, and my PERSONAL favorite, "I'm an adult, I'm a grown man, I make my own decisions."
Anyway, there was a period after I graduated college that I finally put my foot down when he was obnoxiously demanding respect (as if he were father of the year) and told him the relationship had to be mutually respectful if I were to continue in it. It took him awhile but he finally got over it and apologized without really apologizing. ("I'm sorry you misinterpreted," etc) I think my mistake was letting him back in at that point.
So, his wife of a couple years is very trustworthy, doesn't drink (don't know why she married him), and she keeps me in the loop about what's going on. She said (and I have noticed) that he has gotten a lot better with liquor, he barely has that (although they recently went on vacation and he slipped back to his old habits again) but he can't let go of the beer. He doesn't even really count beer as "alcohol." It's a staple in his life, although he doesn't go overboard with it every day, or even every week. But apparently it is still a problem.
I don't know what kind of "stages" there are for an alcoholic because I'm new to seeking advice on this. But it seems to be he's in this stage where he's good at controlling it when it needs to be controlled. He will admit to some things, I think so he doesn't have to admit that he still has a problem. He has started admitting that, "in the past, he had a real problem, but he's doing much better." He's "one of those lucky few who didn't have to go to any kind of rehab program to get better." Well, I know these are lies. He tells me things like, "I don't drink every day," and his wife tells me that's a lie. So he knows enough to know to hide it. His wife, his siblings, his only daughter...we all know there is a problem. Yet there's no telling him that, because that's just passed off as "your opinion" and "he knows how to handle himself."
SORRY that ended up being long, but here's my current situation. He and his wife came to visit last weekend. Friday night: we go to dinner and he has a few beers, so does my husband so I'm sure that makes it "okay." Fine, he's in control. Saturday we make dinner and he is the only one to have a beer at dinner (oh by the way, he ran to the grocery store on Sat. during the day for a few things and came back with a case of beers as well). Okay, it's one beer. That I know of. Whatever. That day he also acknowledges to my husband that he "used to have a real problem" and it "must have really scarred me." Then we go to the movies and get home around 11:30-midnight. Everyone is winding down because it's late and I go to set the alarm, making sure everyone has what they need out of their cars since they don't know my alarm code. Before I set the alarm, he says, "I don't need anything from my car but I am gonna go grab a beer." (from the fridge in garage) I try to give a polite verbal cue that it makes me uncomfortable (since I know at this point he acknowledged to my husband the damage it did when I was younger) by saying, "Do you really need one right now, it's late.." "Okay, I would like one..." Walks past me and gets the beer anyway. This really made me mad because to me it was a blatant "I don't care that it makes you uncomfortable."
SO my dilemma is that I had the uncomfortable conversation with him yesterday that I felt he is still addicted to alcohol because he can't go without it. He of course argued, the conversation went about as you'd expect- blame, denial, trying to spin things around on me, making it my problem, all that fun stuff. But I finally told him it makes me uncomfortable and I don't see why we can't just have an alcohol free weekend when I'm around. He wouldn't agree to it. I said, "so basically you're choosing alcohol over your daughter." He says, "no, it wouldn't matter WHAT you'd be asking me to change, if you tell me I have to do anything like that I'm not gonna do it." Which is typical for his macho, you can't tell me what to do attitude. I said, "no, that's really what it boils down to- alcohol is more important than spending time with your daughter. That's all that I needed to know, I'm done with this conversation, bye."
Now I'm feeling bad because he really was on mostly good behavior this weekend. He bought me flowers, he did some stuff to improve my house, he bought dinner and movie tickets, he was on good behavior. So part of me feels like I'm being unappreciative by bringing it up now. But we were planning to spend a holiday with him and I wasn't sure I could handle it without asking him to go alcohol free. I mean, you'd think a reasonable person who recognized they had a problem but don't anymore, would be nothing but agreeable when the person they traumatized asked them something as minor as not drinking a beer for a few days. Was it wrong of me to bring it up after we had a relatively good weekend on the surface? He's not getting wasted around me, but it still makes me uncomfortable that he doesn't go a day without it around me, because of what I grew up with.
I would really appreciate your thoughts and advice. Again, I'm sorry this is so long but this is my first time seeking advice on something like this.
Another newbie here, and I am so sorry this is so long. I've never done this before, so I have a lot to get out. My biological father (I have a stepdad who raised me with my mom) and I have always had a strained relationship, mostly due to the fact that he is an alcoholic and has been for as long as I can remember. He used to "party" a lot more when I was younger than he does now, and he wouldn't stop just because he had visitation with me. I was usually just brought along to go out with his friends, or he'd leave me at home to go out with his friends. I remember him driving drunk with me in the car plenty of times, and I remember bringing it up when I got to be a teenager, which only resulted in one of the scariest car rides of my life (he got irate and started speeding and driving very recklessly). He had/has the typical alcoholic's problems: not a lot of money (enough to spend on booze though), didn't pay his child support most of the time, didn't satisfy any kind of parental duties, made broken promises to me growing up, etc etc.
I know this was one of the huge problems my mom had when she divorced him, along with his problem with various drugs- heroin, cocaine, I don't know what else. I remember being a teenager and finding a small mirror and rolled up dollar bill in one of his cabinets. He is a typical alcoholic. He is always right, he always has someone else to blame, you are always wrong, he can rationalize everything, and my PERSONAL favorite, "I'm an adult, I'm a grown man, I make my own decisions."
Anyway, there was a period after I graduated college that I finally put my foot down when he was obnoxiously demanding respect (as if he were father of the year) and told him the relationship had to be mutually respectful if I were to continue in it. It took him awhile but he finally got over it and apologized without really apologizing. ("I'm sorry you misinterpreted," etc) I think my mistake was letting him back in at that point.
So, his wife of a couple years is very trustworthy, doesn't drink (don't know why she married him), and she keeps me in the loop about what's going on. She said (and I have noticed) that he has gotten a lot better with liquor, he barely has that (although they recently went on vacation and he slipped back to his old habits again) but he can't let go of the beer. He doesn't even really count beer as "alcohol." It's a staple in his life, although he doesn't go overboard with it every day, or even every week. But apparently it is still a problem.
I don't know what kind of "stages" there are for an alcoholic because I'm new to seeking advice on this. But it seems to be he's in this stage where he's good at controlling it when it needs to be controlled. He will admit to some things, I think so he doesn't have to admit that he still has a problem. He has started admitting that, "in the past, he had a real problem, but he's doing much better." He's "one of those lucky few who didn't have to go to any kind of rehab program to get better." Well, I know these are lies. He tells me things like, "I don't drink every day," and his wife tells me that's a lie. So he knows enough to know to hide it. His wife, his siblings, his only daughter...we all know there is a problem. Yet there's no telling him that, because that's just passed off as "your opinion" and "he knows how to handle himself."
SORRY that ended up being long, but here's my current situation. He and his wife came to visit last weekend. Friday night: we go to dinner and he has a few beers, so does my husband so I'm sure that makes it "okay." Fine, he's in control. Saturday we make dinner and he is the only one to have a beer at dinner (oh by the way, he ran to the grocery store on Sat. during the day for a few things and came back with a case of beers as well). Okay, it's one beer. That I know of. Whatever. That day he also acknowledges to my husband that he "used to have a real problem" and it "must have really scarred me." Then we go to the movies and get home around 11:30-midnight. Everyone is winding down because it's late and I go to set the alarm, making sure everyone has what they need out of their cars since they don't know my alarm code. Before I set the alarm, he says, "I don't need anything from my car but I am gonna go grab a beer." (from the fridge in garage) I try to give a polite verbal cue that it makes me uncomfortable (since I know at this point he acknowledged to my husband the damage it did when I was younger) by saying, "Do you really need one right now, it's late.." "Okay, I would like one..." Walks past me and gets the beer anyway. This really made me mad because to me it was a blatant "I don't care that it makes you uncomfortable."
SO my dilemma is that I had the uncomfortable conversation with him yesterday that I felt he is still addicted to alcohol because he can't go without it. He of course argued, the conversation went about as you'd expect- blame, denial, trying to spin things around on me, making it my problem, all that fun stuff. But I finally told him it makes me uncomfortable and I don't see why we can't just have an alcohol free weekend when I'm around. He wouldn't agree to it. I said, "so basically you're choosing alcohol over your daughter." He says, "no, it wouldn't matter WHAT you'd be asking me to change, if you tell me I have to do anything like that I'm not gonna do it." Which is typical for his macho, you can't tell me what to do attitude. I said, "no, that's really what it boils down to- alcohol is more important than spending time with your daughter. That's all that I needed to know, I'm done with this conversation, bye."
Now I'm feeling bad because he really was on mostly good behavior this weekend. He bought me flowers, he did some stuff to improve my house, he bought dinner and movie tickets, he was on good behavior. So part of me feels like I'm being unappreciative by bringing it up now. But we were planning to spend a holiday with him and I wasn't sure I could handle it without asking him to go alcohol free. I mean, you'd think a reasonable person who recognized they had a problem but don't anymore, would be nothing but agreeable when the person they traumatized asked them something as minor as not drinking a beer for a few days. Was it wrong of me to bring it up after we had a relatively good weekend on the surface? He's not getting wasted around me, but it still makes me uncomfortable that he doesn't go a day without it around me, because of what I grew up with.
I would really appreciate your thoughts and advice. Again, I'm sorry this is so long but this is my first time seeking advice on something like this.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
That's the thing with alcoholics -- they'll be so insistent, and rationalize everything so well, that they make you think you're the one who's crazy and unreasonable.
From your description, you are not the one who's crazy and unreasonable. That would be your father. Take it from me -- most of that sh*t is familiar -- the drunk driving, the rationalizations, the "I could give it up anytime" nonsense, the beer-isn't-really-booze hogwash, etc., etc., etc.
The bottom line is that -- as they usually do -- he has chosen alcohol over you. That is not unusual, and don't take it personally, because a lot of them do that. My Dad died last year at 90 (possibly from some damage that may have been caused, ironically enough, by alcohol withdrawal when he gave it up for a week or so), never having acknowledged that there was any problem whatsoever.
Go to Al-Anon -- that'll help you understand what's going on... and that there's not much you can do to make someone give up booze.... Good luck!
T
From your description, you are not the one who's crazy and unreasonable. That would be your father. Take it from me -- most of that sh*t is familiar -- the drunk driving, the rationalizations, the "I could give it up anytime" nonsense, the beer-isn't-really-booze hogwash, etc., etc., etc.
The bottom line is that -- as they usually do -- he has chosen alcohol over you. That is not unusual, and don't take it personally, because a lot of them do that. My Dad died last year at 90 (possibly from some damage that may have been caused, ironically enough, by alcohol withdrawal when he gave it up for a week or so), never having acknowledged that there was any problem whatsoever.
Go to Al-Anon -- that'll help you understand what's going on... and that there's not much you can do to make someone give up booze.... Good luck!
T
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
You cannot reason with an unreasonable person, all active alcoholics are unreasonable.
You do not have the power to change him, nor does anyone else.
If you are uncomfortable being in his presense, then you must distance yourself, he is not going to change, so, there is no other option.
I would suggest you read around the Family & Friends of Alcoholics and I agree attend Alanon meetings, it will help.
Keep posting, we are here for you!
You do not have the power to change him, nor does anyone else.
If you are uncomfortable being in his presense, then you must distance yourself, he is not going to change, so, there is no other option.
I would suggest you read around the Family & Friends of Alcoholics and I agree attend Alanon meetings, it will help.
Keep posting, we are here for you!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4
"But I finally told him it makes me uncomfortable and I don't see why we can't just have an alcohol free weekend when I'm around. He wouldn't agree to it."
This, right here. Give yourself some credit for bringing it up, I think. I wish I could get to a point to even remotely request this from my mom - I think you've at least verbalized a bit more what the concern is. I'm new to all this too in regard to confrontation - so I guess I don't have much solid word to share and pass your way.
"So part of me feels like I'm being unappreciative by bringing it up now. But we were planning to spend a holiday with him and I wasn't sure I could handle it without asking him to go alcohol free"
Don't be so hard on yourself. I know where you're coming from. I think of parties or having friends over, and I get this anxiety of "What if they decide to drink...?" It's a really terrible feeling, and even more so when it sometimes prevents you from even doing things. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting that off your chest - again, at least it's out there now. He's the parent, you shouldn't be feeling like this because of his actions. Of course it will be rocky, but you've hopefully started to plant a seed. I just wish you luck in how this unfolds, but don't feel badly at all!
This, right here. Give yourself some credit for bringing it up, I think. I wish I could get to a point to even remotely request this from my mom - I think you've at least verbalized a bit more what the concern is. I'm new to all this too in regard to confrontation - so I guess I don't have much solid word to share and pass your way.
"So part of me feels like I'm being unappreciative by bringing it up now. But we were planning to spend a holiday with him and I wasn't sure I could handle it without asking him to go alcohol free"
Don't be so hard on yourself. I know where you're coming from. I think of parties or having friends over, and I get this anxiety of "What if they decide to drink...?" It's a really terrible feeling, and even more so when it sometimes prevents you from even doing things. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting that off your chest - again, at least it's out there now. He's the parent, you shouldn't be feeling like this because of his actions. Of course it will be rocky, but you've hopefully started to plant a seed. I just wish you luck in how this unfolds, but don't feel badly at all!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7
Thank you all for your kind words. I'm feeling better today, although I do feel badly for my father's wife, who is getting blamed (of course) for this whole thing. I guess because she told me the truth and didn't cover anything up for him? She sent me an email he sent to her where he was just plain mean and told her "thank you for loading my daughter with enough ammunition for her to look speak and act as if I am her child, I hope you are happy.." etc etc. THEN he sent my husband a text message asking him to "please forgive him if he was disrespectful or out of line when he came to visit," only because he knew I had already told him that he wasn't, and that wasn't the point. He wanted to drag my husband into it to validate him by saying, "oh no, you were fine," so he could use him as an ally, and drive a wedge in my marriage. Isn't that sweet? What's sad is that I can't figure out if he is just a narcissist and master manipulator on TOP of the addiction, or if it's all the addiction causing the behaviors.
I am going to look for an AlAnon meeting near me. Thanks you guys!
I am going to look for an AlAnon meeting near me. Thanks you guys!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7
My gosh, he is getting so hateful towards his wife for telling me how much he drinks so I saw through his lies....he hasn't spoken to her since Tuesday except to belittle her and insult her. She said yesterday he called her a backstabber and told her that she ruined our (his and mine) relationship. They can be so hateful!
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