LeadHatter

Kittykitty thanks again for your helpful and wise post. You have helped improve [slightly] my opinion about this ACOA forum. Maybe i am spoiled by the frankly amazing support on the daily threads and good support on the codpendency and beyond but you are helping to improve the image [for me atleast] of this forum.

Yeagh maybe i used to be ungrateful. I was sad so sorry sr and any acoa's that i may not have thanked guess it was my fault after all har or not who can say. who can tell even.

Regarding my father and why i feel guilty i think some of this has to do with his use of the word 'we' when talking about his own beliefs. He would say 'we dont do this' or 'we' do that so i guess i may be transliterating this onto his drinking like i was also doing it. Frankly at the age of 15 or 16 i started a weekly binge drink with some boys from school.

Its all food for thought. My mother told me i think age 13 [or thereabouts] that my father was a severe addict and that i must 'save her' from him. What that means ill never truly understand. I can chip chip away but it wont come easily the dirt the grime and the sludge of those years.

My mother used to scold him publicly my father [infront of the kids anyways]. He was doing awful things like p!!ing in cups and leaving them around but she did seem to enjoy humiliating him. I got trapped in this degrading behaviour and sniping.

My mother i can deal with because [to an extent] she is emotionally honest.

My father has this big idea about 'the family' being the best thing ever. This is so ridiculous its damm near unfathomable quite where he gets that from i dont know. Certainly for me my family has not been wonderful or amazing definately since age 11 or so maybe further back until 9 or 10 or even 8 or 9.

I think they cared. Shucks perhaps dad was that classic 'silly drunk' that did his best to keep it from us and was a functional alcoholic for a time until it all went wrong.

Regarding my mothers toxicity i dont remember much of her really. I guess because she got ill emotionally three times i dont know i hardly member anything at all of my home life. Just being lonely in the garden really plus a walk or two on holiday which was good. Pennies from heaven :}

I dont know what support my mother was getting. Its all a bit lost i think she didnt get enough atleast after breakdown #1 so came #2 then i think #3. I dont speak to her much now because both parents were toxic. I became a drinker like my father though too sadly. So quite how bad i was is hard to say.

Unlike dad i am now sober and i am making ammends. Truth is as a child [15/16] i used to thieve to pay for alcohol, from my parents but this is somethign i have apologised for recently. Im reading the AA BB although i dont regually attend meetings.

Im not far into the book really. Only Bill W's story. I likes it though I will read on thankyou for your support kittykitty i do appreciate it

I begun detaching again from mum and dad about 9/10 weeks ago kittykitty so i still have a lot of sh!t in my head from dad. We are from a line of irish immigrants so there lots of 'pride' and 'we must do' and 'keeping up appearances' sort of beliefs in our family lot [well my dads family] so that is i guess highly restrictive. He was a fan of booming the message to 'honour thy mother and father' although honestly i wouldnt be surprised if he had a satanic church under the floor he was that wicked for a number of years [or thats how i see it] but still he would preach god! God .

Im growing up now but my father [in his own mind atleast] is a big 'family comes first' sort of man so i used to think 'build out from the nest' sort of. I guess thats right if you nest isnt a den of squawking evil lunatics. My father being the evil loonatic and my mother the squawking bird. God she went to mass every week you know and still we had so many problems - honestly. The mind boggles

I guess at some level i still harbor a wish to re-connect with the 'extended' family so when i type here i am aware that someone in the extended family may read it one day. Yes im still in fear of my father he has been a horrible evil son of a b!tch at times to me. He has cultured a dependence in my then lied and cheated. According to mother he was a deep seated addict and thats what drove her mad

Wow getting it all out :/ Thanks kittykitty i am considering Al-Anon. I am 5.25 sober months myself with other issues but im not knowingly ignoring any problems i have now and im sober so i been to AA f2f twice. I found AA hard though. My first meeting i was labelled 'para' kev.

Now i see that may have been talking about para-alcoholic. My father used to tell me i had a 'persecution complex' because that explained away any problem i had so as he didnt need to deal with it. I guess things like that [and other things] have helped me feel insecure at times. So when i was called 'para' kev i thought he [the aa leader] meant PARAnoid and was a bit ??? Ok so its improved now .

Thankyou kitty for your help. How are you getting along with yoru own recovery. I guess step families have their own nuances. Im sorry your step father used to drink alot i guess that gave you things to deal with that others dont have.

The way you talk i guess god has found you and you are in codependency and ACOA recovery so thats good. If i can be of any assistance please rsvp here. On the codependency and beyond thread or in private.

dollydo

Kevin,

I am older than dirt, so, I have had plenty of time to get over my upbringing. My mother was both verbally and physically abusive. I could have been the poster child for dysfunction.

Kevin, I had a choice, follow in her footsteps or do something different, I chose different. I choose not to get wasted everyday, I choose not to abuse others, I choose to forgive her, yet not forget.

My bounderies are for me, if she gets loaded in my presense I will leave, if she comes to my house and is or gets drunk, she will leave. If she is verbally abusive to me, I will either hang the phone up or one of us will leave the building.

She got so bad about 15 years ago, that I had no contact for 10 years, in the meantime I hopped on the recovery train. To be honest, it was the most peaceful 10 years of my life.

I somewhat agree, we cannot carry our parents bad behavior with us the rest of our life, and, we cannot use it as an excuse for our own bad behavior, we can only seek help to confront our issues, to become a better "me" to let go of the past and move forward with our life.

Believe me, I still bear the scars of my childhood, yet overall, I am a well rounded person.

It is important to remember, "Don't make your past a hitching post, make it a guidepost"
learn from it, do better....not for the A in your life, but for you. You don't have anything to prove to anyone, but, yourself!

You are reaching out, this is so positive, keep moving forward, one small step at a time, this is not an instant gratification project, this is a lifelong mission.

LeadHatter

LuvInDaisy i am codependent. I used to binge drink but if i had to guess and it would be that a [well meaning educated guess but a guess none the less] i would say codependency is my #1 demon to kill so to speak.

I find it hard to separate my drinking and my codependency. Have you read codependent no more by melody beattie? I would recommend this, and i am recommending it. I bought it on ebay, its got so much information in there for the reading

Im sorry for the guilt and the hurt

My guess again is that codependency and alcoholism are not an either or, a person could be both, or a little of one and a lot of another. You have tried AA and NA im guessing, how about al anon Or buy that book i recommend. There are lots of al anon meetings would it kill you to get off to one. 21 years is a long time though, but maybe you will hear things that make sense to you. It seems unlikely to harm you in the trying of it. I used to drink alot and i am codependent so could you be also a drinker/user and be codependent maybe.

Try al anon, would be my recommendation-i hope you know what it is "al anon" its a group for people affected by others drinking [and i guess addictive behavior]. If you feel you come from a dysfunctional family background you may also wish to try CODA [codependents anonymous] More info on this is on the web Even i think there are ACOA groups but im getting more information on that myself as you can see. Good luck.

kittykitty

I feel I need to clarify something here. Alanon is not the same people that go to AA.

AA is for alcoholics.

Alanon is for the rest of us. Those of us who love them, gave birth to them, were raised by them, work with them, etc. Alanon is for everyone else. And sometimes after an alcoholic starts recovery in AA, they come into Alanon because they realize they are affected by someone else's drinking too.

I don't know what para-alcoholic or para-kev means.

Alanon and AA operate of the same principles, the same ideas, the same 12 steps. If you didn't like AA, you won't like Alanon.

I think a professional therapist is a route you might want to explore Kevin.

booksnlattes

HG, yes it qualifies you. I'm the same. Grandchild of alcoholics. Raised by a mother who did not seek her own recovery, therefor the traits were passed along to me. If you get the official ACA red handbook you'll see that they devote a whole section to grandchildren. We are proof that alcoholism is a family disease, passed from one generation to the next regardless of whether or not our parents were alcoholics themselves. So yes, we qualify as Adult Children because we were raised in homes affected by alcohol.

LeadHatter

Dollydoo thanks for your message of strength and hope.

Indeed we can replicate or change the 'family line' or tradition. Who would want a verbally or physically abusive mother - but you get what you get in life right and we deal with it day in day out day by day.

So where do you get your support from dollydoo are you a coda or adcoa or al anon ? I really dont understand boundaries well. I have 'tolerence levels' what i consider abusive or otherwise and if i feel abused i will challenge it or leave is that what a boundary is i dont know. As i have said earlier on this thread i am not majorly hot on boundaries. That is a codie way. Thanks for your message dollydoo and good luck

As i have said before i frequent the codependent and beyond daily support thread. Drop in. Or not Thanks for your help - you rock! Yay. I will proceed with my ACOA book but i reminds me of a classroom as a boy and thats not a happy place. I guess im older now though and i will realise this before long. Thankyou

LeadHatter

LuvInDaisy i am only 5.25 months in recovery my entire life but yes it can be tiring. Yes we can give up hope. Some are not ones for g-d. I am. I think everyone may choose their own path. Thats the freedom we have [or atleast we think we have] in the west.

I know people struggle with the g-d concept so you are not alone. One day at a time springs to mind. You are reaching out which can be beneficial for you and others so well done.

Have you read codependent no more by melody beattie ? I recommend you get a copy

LeadHatter

Kittykitty thanks for your messages of hope experience kindness and insight.

I didn't know what a par-alcoholic was, but if you look back earlier on this thread for a posting by the user tromboneliness you will see a posting they made where they posted a 'ACoA Laundry List'.

Exactly what a "ACoA Laundry List" I cant tell you im about to email that user now but it would seem to be a list of charactaristics of a ACOA

This was the first time i knew what a para-alcoholic was because seeing this posting i looked para-alcoholic up on google. Seems to be a synonym of codependent does para-alcoholic or someone affected by another drinking

A para kev was just a something a AA chair said to me at a f2f meeting, my name is kevin so im thinking he could have been meaning kev the para-alcoholic --- google para-alcoholic if you want - its all there

I consider therapy kittykitty but actually i find soberrecovery.com, humanity and the various 12 step groups i am already a member of therapy in of themselves, i am quite the 'hot stepper'.

I am doing 'my own therapy'

LeadHatter

booksnlattes i found your post helpful thanks - i guess i may end up buying the ACA handbook - not sure if its a 12 step one or not although ) mm books and coffee

JustAYak

I've only read the original post - but I most certainly am an ACoA and am willing to own up to it

tromboneliness

The Laundry List is a list that ACA uses in its official literature -- such as the "ACA Big Book," which is the text that is usually used at meetings. You can get it from the ACA World Service Organization:

ACA Fellowship Text - Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.

I'm currently in the midst of going through the yellow Workbook with the help of a sponsor. It's a lot to do, but very helpful....

T

dollydo

My strength comes from within. I learned how to replace fear with determination. I came to realize that it is not so much the circumstance I am involved in...it's how I handle it.

So, when I am faced with a hurdle, I am not afraid to address it, I am determined to conquer it.

I use any and all tools available to handle the issue I am being presented with. My toolbox is full, and, through meetings, therapy and this board, I have learned how to use them.

Right now, your tool box is empty, you are just beginning your journey,with each step that you take you will gain another tool, and learn how to use it.

Keep a positive attitude, keep reaching out to others, keep moving forward to become a healthier you.

hope2be

Count me in too. I've come to realize that ACOA issues are at the core of my codie issues.

The way I look at it is this....
Codependency recovery involves the tools I need to begin to take care of myself on a daily basis.
ACOA recovery helps me to understand why became codependent and get to the core of my problems.

Thanks for the thread.
Huggs

LeadHatter

LuvInDaisy i would recommend codependent no more really. Im glad you want to live in better ways rather than recreating a destructive cycle.

LeadHatter

SpeedyJay well done for being mature enough to know ACOA is not your fault. Although it may be your responsibility to work with

LeadHatter

trombonliness i currently have FOUR recovery books. Melody beattie's codependent no more is at present #1 for me. I did look into buying the official CODA BB but at around us $18/19 its a bit pricey for me at this precise moment.

I also have Adult Children of Alcoholics by Janet Geringer Woititz. Getting a balance of officially sanctioned '12 step' and 'other' books is something i pay heed to since i dont want all my eggs into one basket. I also have the AA BB and a book about family issues.

About four days ago i ordered another recovery book [not ACOA or coda but something else relating to getting well mentally] taking my tally to FIVE books. This morning i ordered ANOTHER recovery book so i am now on SIX recovery books.

I am considering a purchase of the official ACA book. I dont 'think' its on amazon and i think it was only available shipping from us but yes i could get it in a couple of weeks or a month.

Today i feel sad that i expected stuff from my dad that he did not or was not able to give. I dont dwell on this pare se. Just getting it into the light so it can crumble and burn and i can 'live in the joy of the spirit' and 'in the solution'. The solution for me is that i deal with my disappointment and i guess bitterness before i have more dialogue with dad.

I am pleased that you find the ACA book is helping you trombonliness thats good I

LeadHatter

Dollydoo i think its pretty impressive to me somehow that you talk about getting your strength from within. Thats the right way i think Im finding you seem to be 'on my level' or 'on the same script' as i. What im trying to say is that again your post seems minimalist meaty which is you would think possilby a contradiction. Rich. Well done.

To hear about replacing fear with determination seems a sterling idea so good show dollydoo. You said with some wit that you were 'as old as the earth' and also that you didn't speak to a parent [was it your dad] for a long time so i guess you have been in recovery long yes.

I agree with you when you say its not about the circumstance as how we handle it. I share your determination to and i will use a combative word now 'defeat' lifes hurdles.

In my case I have hopes, a high minded intention and yes determination to destroy and 'conquer' lifes hurdles. Thats good for me Perhaps i will goto some more face to face 12 step meetings and 'tool up'. I dont have an empty tool box. I have pride too much my father used to say. Getting into the solution and doing something would be a smart move yes. I get tired though so luvindaisy is not the only one to feel so. Like many i have suffered. I do however have g-d my 12 step books.

I have in my mind 'failed' but maybe thats my mean old wine swine fathers voice in my head. Sorry dad but i think that to be likely so. So i continue dollydoo. Grateful of all the help i get. A big issue for me is 'breaking the unspeakable acts of 'dont say this' and 'dont say that'. The restrictive unconcious 'rules' you tend to assimilate as a kid [or even a grown up] living under oppresive mentors or parents.

Yes my dad was a real horrible man. Hes not been that way now for some time. I think my last argument was at xmas. Since then i sobered up. You have the insight to understand dollydoo and im grateful for this so thanks.

Right now im dealing with scenes in my head that need to be uncovered and dealt with. I dont know that much about life really. I dont know for example is it wrong to 'expect' of your parents certain paths and ways. I can remember hoping to be accepted for who i was at one point but i was not. I was in essence rejected.

So i carry on dollydoo. My coda recovery is teaching me about appropriatness and suchlike. I dont 'get' much to do with boundaries yes, not at a concious level hardly. Just what i have taught myself or learnt through watching others good and ...

Putting my thoughts down on paper helps so im glad to be able to do that. If someone reads thats an improvement too but not entirely necessary. Catharsis.

Keep on dollydoo )

LeadHatter

Hope2be thanks for your post and your grats right back at you matey with those

I read all of your post but it was interesting to me. I know that i find it harder to talk [somewhere potentially visible to those connected to the situation or perhaps just in general] about the specifics of what i endured and it was an endurance at times during particularly my teen years. My sister claims to have had 'a different childhood' so thats yet another puzzle in the monkey puzzle tree of life eh Hehe like it.

I don't have the coda big book yet or the ACA book but as ive mentioned earlier on today to others i have a pretty good codie recovery book [one of ms beattie's] and another 2 books on family dysfunctions one specifically on ACOA. Ive looked and the coda official BB. if i had the $$ i would buy it, but not yet. SR helps as do my codie friends over on the codependent and beyond thread in daily support threads and yes i have 3 books for codie/aca things



I guess as offspring sometimes it is quite acceptable that you bring certain issues to your parents. Even issues of self. Yeagh part of the codie recovery is realizing that can be unwise though. Good luck in your codie recovery and in your ACA recovery Hope2be your cutting through the bs with good information

coda is day 2 day aca is understanding root issue of why it came to be and deeper issues yes that figures. Just making this post now has me thinking about something and moving on a little more brilliant. Thankyou

dollydo

LuvIn,

Do you believe in the power of positive thinking? I do, your subconcious mind is the controller of both your thoughts and you bodily functions. Your concious mind only believes what it is told by your subconcious mind. We listen to our concious mind, thus the continuos loop of negativity.

I know that you want to get better, there is a way to help you. Every night as you lay in bed, right before you go to sleep, feed your subconcious mind a positive thought. Repeat the same thought, before you know it, your concious mind will believe it. Then move onto another negative thought or behavior that you want to overcome.

I have been using this technique for years, it works for me, it might work for you.

GingerM

ACoA here. Both parents and all grandparents.

Many years of recovery under my belt. The initial stages of recovery? They suck. It's confusing, it's hurtful, it's eye opening, it's bewildering. I felt like I'd lost my footing and was stumbling through the world tripping over everything.

As someone else said earlier, when you start your recovery, you only have the tools from living with a chaotic family life. You may only have a hammer in your toolbox. As you continue through recovery, you will develop better tools and more of them. I have a full toolbox.

I will say that there is no such thing as "recovered" (past tense). No matter how far along you are, or how many years it's been since something triggered a button for you, something will come along that pushes a long-forgotten button.

I am working on learning to walk THROUGH the crazy when one of my buttons gets pushed, so I can see it clearly and act appropriately (or at least in a way I feel good about) on the other side.

I believe it was a different post in which Mike offered you the suggestion to work on the thing that will kill you first, first. Sage advice. I had already stopped drinking (on my own with no support) and figured out how to stop being codependent (again, on my own with no support - it was pre-internet) when I realized I was an ACoA. I've been in therapy for years. Two years ago I had a button pushed and reacted in a less than desirable manner - I owned up to both my button, made amends as best I could, and spent much time working through the process that brought me to having my button pushed. A few weeks ago, another person caught me completely by surprise and pushed a button. This time though, I learned to sit with the icky feeling until I felt more like myself again and chose to act (or, in that case, not act) in a manner I felt was healthy and most reasonable under the circumstances. Then I spent several hours talking with my therapist about why I would have had the reaction I did.

One thing at a time, one step at a time, one day at a time. If you try to do it all at once, it will be overwhelming.