JustAYak

Wow. So many of these posts hit home for me. I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say thanks.

Livefree44

This is what I am struggling with since I started doing step work and reading the Big Red Book. Anger at my parents for a lost childhood. I can relate to just about everything mentioned in this thread. Dad was the alcoholic in the family and mom the enabling codependant. Mom was just as sick if not more so than my dad. They would have these incredibly violent and virulent arguments when my dad came home drunk. The things said in my childhood home were awful and I remember going into my room and shutting the door, covering my ears and humming real loud so I couldn't hear them anymore. When these arguments happened while I was outside playing with neighborhood friends I would immediately run into the house out of pure embarrassment and also fear of something bad happening if I didn't get in there and 'referee'.
My dad stopped drinking when I was 14 and remained emotionally distant from all of us. I had no relationship with this man growing up and that was reinforced by the hatred our mother cultivated in me and my brothers towards this man.
Today, I have this unresolved anger coming to the surface that was for years locked away under the facade of the person I thought my parents would be proud and accepting of. Mom did make an attempt at apology several months ago only after my older brother and his wife confronted her on the dysfunction in the family. Dad was drinking again and all the old wounds opened up and it was like my mother never missed a beat and took on her old role of enabler and martyr.
Dad has again put the bottle down and now has been going to AA which he states he likes but that is his journey and I wish him the best. Mom goes to Al-anon and again her journey. I am still stuck with all this fallout from a crazy past. I certainly don't want to remain stuck in this anger but for the first time I realize I have a right to it and I don't have to feel guilty about feeling this way. My parents did wrong by me and my brothers and it wasn't my fault. Step One says I am powerless over that. So be it.
I have done a lot of acting out over the years which I can see now is directly related to aca issues. It's like a light shining on the murkiness of my past...I see why I did the things I did. I have a long way to go and one day at a time to do it.

GingerM

Part of what freed me from the anger was when a therapist told me "But you had a childhood. It wasn't a wonderful childhood, but you did have one. Any other version of childhood that you have in your head is an illusion, not reality."

It made me realize that much of my anger stemmed from wanting to have had some idealized version of reality which didn't and couldn't have existed. How is one to be angry when something that couldn't exist, never did exist? Rather circular anger that rather circularly ran around inside my head eating me up.

My childhood was what it was. I can accept that. I can also accept that my childhood made me who I am today - including the strength that came about from having lived through that and not become exactly like them. I've lived through He11, and survived. There is very little else in this world that I feel I couldn't survive. As a result of my childhood, I learned a strident form of resiliency that often amazes my husband and friends. "How can you accept that from so-and-so?" they'll ask. Well, I accepted far worse in my life, that's how.

If you are on this forum, it marks you as one who has an amazing amount of introspection and resiliency. If you didn't have both of those traits - far more than the average person - you wouldn't be on this forum, you'd be out drinking yourself stupid (or pick your favorite self-destructive activity). And if you had not had the childhood you had, you would not have that introspection and resiliency.

There are many traits I had to learn as a child to survive my family. Some of those traits were not helpful to me as an adult. Some of them have been invaluable. I'm not saying that growing up the way we did is not cause for anger and bitterness and resentment - don't get me wrong. But if you look deep inside yourself, I bet you will find that there is some good that came out of it also.

I no longer wish for the childhood I "should" have had - that illusion. I won't go so far as to say I'm glad that I had the childhood I had, but I will say that I am glad for some of the traits I have as a result of that environment. I am also glad for the tools I've learned walking my path of recovery. They are very useful in a wide variety of situations, not just with my family. I no longer wish my life had been different. I hope you can get to that same place as well - it is a peaceful place and quite enjoyable

Livefree44

Thanks Ginger for your thoughts. I appreciate and understand what you are saying. The past isn't a place I want to stick around for any length of time. Blaming and finger pointing never got me anywhere but angrier and more isolated. I don't think I am pining for some type of Brady Bunch childhood. What I am coming to terms with in my own way and time is the fact that I buried a lot of my past under role playing and people pleasing. I became overly attentive to my parents out of this sense of not being a good enough son when I was younger. I took on the role of fixing the dysfunction in my family. Don't want to do that anymore and certainly don't want to take on any type of role other than being who my HP wants me to be. Am I grateful for some of the survival skills I developed growing up in a dysfunctional home?...well, yes and no. Most of my survival skills alienated me from people because I felt safer just isolating.
This site is one of several resources of recovery I avail myself of these days. I am grateful for the gift of introspection and most importantly, surrender. I believe a huge part of my recovery in step one is realizing I was not to blame for the insanity in my family. I was not a bad kid. I continually received these messages growing up. I took this into adulthood like the proverbial monkey on the back. I believe understanding where this came from and why it all happened is part of the recovery process, including
recognizing a 'lost' childhood. Like I said, don't want to play the blame game just want to process the past and let it go.

GingerM

I hope you didn't read my previous post as any form of chastisement. It was more that your comment sparked a thought inside my head about my own recovery, and I thought I would share my experience. I most certainly wasn't trying (even obliquely) to tell you what you "should" do - everyone walks their own path in recovery. But I have also had the benefit of reading other people's experiences and have found it helpful, so I posted my own. It is so difficult, in text, for tone of voice and body language to be conveyed properly

Yes yes yes! And understanding where that monkey on your back came from is definitely part of the process. Without understanding the problem, how is it possible to find a workable solution? I'm glad you're here and glad you're able to see things fitting into place.

evmdimples

wow, I can relate to every one of these posts! It was suggested to me recently that I might benefit from AL-Anon. I've been doing CoDA work for 1.5 years. However, in my current situation (living with my mom for 6 mos.... she's my core issue) is causing me an incredible amount of stress and internal anguish. The friend who suggested AlAnon said that my mom sounded like a "dry drunk". That was a new concept for me... but as I read these posts... everything seems to fall into place. Given that last night we had an all out fight... and my mind went to self-harm... I realize that this is not a healthy place for me to be. I also have clung to the illusion that maybe if I work hard enough I will have the love and validation that I've always craved for from her. But it ain't gonna happen. And given that I am constantly being triggered, I realize that I don't have time to come up for air, process emotions/feelings and let them go. I have guilt associated with the thought of not being able to deal with her. It defies all my beliefs both social and cultural. But I can't continue this way or I'll self-destroy. With no job or partner... I feel stuck. But I need to go. And so hopefully the universe will provide somehow. Seek and ye shall find they say... I can perhaps hang on to that bit of hope for myself.

thanks to all for sharing their stories. It helps me realize I'm definitely not alone, not imagining things and that it's ok to not be able to live with them. I guess I feel it's a failing on my part.

hugs to all

e

Livefree44

Please excuse my initial reaction to your post. I tend to react with an over defensiveness when it comes to all this. I really do appreciate your feedback and can clearly see the wisdom in your posts. I have been struggling with anger lately. I realize I buried a lot of it but it was manifesting itself in other ways (addictive behavior mainly). Now that I am doing step one I get flashes of intense anger and then try to process it constructively and not always so successful there. Your willingness to share your unique perspective on all of this encourages me to stay connected to the process of recovery. In other words, it's good to know others care and understand.
I don't like the fact I get overly defensive and then lash out. I do this a lot and it drives my wife crazy. I have struggled with this over sensitivity all my life. I suspect it comes from self esteem issues but not certain of that.

GingerM

Been there, done that, loathed myself for it.

If this board has taught me anything, it is that no one can really know what's going on inside someone else's head or heart. I read your posts and took no offense - hopefully no one else did either.

sallybobally

Kirsty, thanks for the thread.

I am new to the group! Ironically, I logged on to find the perfect thread for how I am feeling.

Some background... I am the child of a 25 year recovering alcoholic father. He was in no way physically or emotionally abusive, but rather a person who was irresponsible in taking care of our family. I am also saddened by the childhood I had at times. I hated having to be so responsible at such a young age. My father could barely keep a job. My mother is the breadwinner and works her but off til this day. Looking back, I also realize that my mother was very much an enabler and still is. I have been to counseling at different times in my life, and new insight comes during different stages of my life.

My current anger comes from the self centeredness in my father that is becoming increasingly irritating the older I get. I have personally been able to deal with it (or overlook it) most of my adult life. Now it is beginning to affect the relationship he and my mother have with my children, and as a mother, I think I have my back up a little more.

My mother has always wanted grandchildren. It is what she has lived for. My two children are the only two (grandchildren) and up until recently, my parents have had a great relationship with them. They have spent a great deal of time with them, but recently it has been all but nonexistent. My husband and brother have noticed it as well. We have come to the conclusion that it centers around my father and the need to have things go his way (where to eat, what time to eat, what shows to watch, etc.) My children are 7 and 3 and my father acts like he is one of them.

As a result, my parents have stopped having them for overnight visits (they live an hour away.) and the effort to see them his all but nonexistent. I think this hurts my mother, but she wouldn't dare speak her mind with him. She does with everyone else, but not with him. He gets his way and always has.

I would love to have some insight on how to deal with this. Personally, I am choosing not to engage. Not because I don't want to, but because I know that I am not going to change the way my father thinks. He is self centered and always will be. It is why he is an alcoholic. What I hate is that my children aren't seeing their grandparents because of it (in particular, my mother.) I hate that she doesn't have the guts to stand up to him.

So, do I say something to my mother, or do I just not make the effort with them at all. I am so tired of my father calling the shots. I have been through enough counseling to know it is not me or my children. I just don't have the energy for it anymore.

Thanks for listening and any advice you may have.

dothi

Hi sallybobally

Re-post this as a new thread in the forum, with reference to being a newcomer in the subject line. You'll get way more replies if people can find it easy, rather than buried in this thread

sallybobally

Thanks for the welcome!

Wasn't sure to post as a new thread or in response to Kirsty's. Thanks for the advice.

EveningRose

I notice the many references in this thread to rage at parents for a lost childhood. Do any of you have rage at your parents for the current situation? I believe I had completely forgiven the past. But when I started seeing that the past was not over, I snapped, and I do feel a lot of anger that my less than ideal father thinks he has ANYTHING to say about my parenting. (For that matter, he and his brothers weren't such great kids, either, and my kids do far better than he did in every respect.)

dothi

lol, EveningRose, that's why I maintain 0% contact with my AF these days. His addiction/illness-related behaviors can push buttons in me that are so deep. I see the illness in myself when I'm around him. I become an angry, harping monster like my mother. I think now that my AF has always leaned on me as a mother figure, using me for his emotional support. I find it so gross now that I can't manage my angry reactions when he turns passive-aggressive to pull me back into line. So I try to do what an adult would do, and completely remove myself from the situation.

Everything about his behavior reminds me of very negative experiences from my childhood. For me, there is a strong association that I don't think I'll ever quite shake. So to talk to him is to be reminded of the past, even though I have done the work to let it go. If I find myself around him for too long, I start picking pieces of it up again.

Your recovery, learning to live your own life, and allowing yourself to flourish in the company of others is the most important thing you have. Friends, "family" (biological or alternative), and success do generally follow when you've learned to take care of yourself.

Iwanttoheal

I could have written this Evening Rose with one difference - for me I would change forgiven to "denied" or "stuffed my feelings deep to try to forget". Everything was stuffed down so deep it took me 45 years to get to the point where I was raging at my parents.

I too feel a lot of anger and yes it relates to dealing with my Mum in the present day. At first I was scared of feeling this anger as I was a very meek and obedient child (well I had to be otherwise I had the cr*p beaten out me) and this anger was definitely alien to me. Now I just let the flashes of anger and rage come because oh boy, are they justifiable and then let them go because I cannot change my past and I certainly cannot change or control my mother's behaviour and believe me when I say I have tried everything for a very, very long time to try to get her to own her own behaviour and change her ways.

I have limited contact with my Mum - currently a couple of hours every 2-3 weeks. She is extremely narcissistic and passive-agressive and can really hurt me and mess with my head, but only if I let her. So I am getting there.

Sending you (((hugs))), IWTHxxx

cobra8

I feel more disgust towards my father because of the type of person he is today as a sober, "recovered" alcoholic than I do because of his sordid past. I could forgive the past if it weren't for his frequent need to remind me what a good parent he was, how he never did anything wrong, etc. I've long since given up on getting any kind of apology or remorse or anything like that, but the fact that he is so shamelessly proud of what a "good" parent he was irks the heck out of me.

He's also a flaming hypocrite who is super, super judgemental and critical of other people while apparently just flat out forgetting what his own life has been like. Unfortunately his current wife and immediate family are just as weird as he is and enable him in his denial by telling him how wonderful he is and swearing he never did anything wrong.

I sometimes (sarcastically of course) think that he must be real, live angel because he is the most innocent person on earth. Pure as the driven snow. Everything is always someone else's fault and he never does anything.

Sadly I am not in a position to go NC with him right now, althought that is probably what will happen in the future.

EveningRose

What really sent our family into a tailspin (if I can pinpoint one event) was my sister screaming at me over a holiday dinner, in front of 20 people. My father told ME to sit down, while she went on and on. I can't remember a time as an adult I have been that close to publicly crying. I packed up and left. I mentioned, briefly and kindly, twice over the following year to my sister that this was an issue (and btw it was the 2nd year in a row she'd gone into a rage, the previous year at my 11 year old.) Twice, pattern, ya know? I told her it had to be dealt with in the nicest possible way and she ignored me. I quit going to her holiday dinner. Which led eventually to my dad explaining that it's all my fault because me and my kids are 'annoying' and none of the rest of them are. His explanation for why I don't go into rages at anyone!! (Of course he denies saying that, along with denying choking me and a number of other things. And boy, I could list plenty of annoying things I've not worried about over the years, figuring we all have our quirks.)

I quit going because something deep inside me knew I would NEVER again sit and take that from her, and my kids would be subject to the most dysfunctional family holidays with out and out physical brawls. (Also, haha, because she's bigger than me, I figured I'd lose, lol!) I quit going because I absolutely refuse either to be treated like that again without objecting or to descending to their level. That leaves the third way I've chosen, and they're all angry with me about that.

I have flourished in the company of those who think me and my children are good and decent people. The longer this goes on, the more clearly I see my parents. Amazingly (leaves me shaking my head), I have recently published a book which is getting very good reviews. Neither of my parents has so much as mentioned it. At a recent extended family gathering, my mother did speak to me (to ask something she wanted to know), but in 2 years, she has not bothered to ask why I never talk to her anymore (she doesn't need to, she already 'knows' I've been a bad seed from the start, I bet), and in 9 months, neither of them has acknowledged my big accomplishment, on top of raising a large family with a bunch of kids getting stellar grades, keeping my house pretty decent-looking, and holding down a part time job. What I hear from my family is, "Yeah...but there was that time you didn't clean up after your kids at mom and dad's. You really need to do better." or "You took a nap! You NEVER watch your kids!"

It has really helped finally getting over my fear of being the complainer my mom is, and talking to friends about this, and hearing from them all the horrible things they did in high school and college, and how they now nonetheless have a good and mutually respectful relationship with their parents, while mine are still talking about how I supposedly 'refused' to learn my multiplication tables 35 years ago.

I'm reaching a point where I can see objectively how insane that is...or impaired, as my counselor told me was a kinder word, lol!

Vent over!

EveningRose

See, I guess that's part of my current frustration. I knew there was something wrong. Choking, being repeatedly threatened with being kicked out of the house to the point where I packed up and left at age 18 (and no, I was not doing anything terrible, I worked 30 hours a week when my dad thought I should work 60...had decent friends, no smoking, no drinking, no parties, NOTHING.) But in later years, when I moved far away, I heard from other family members he'd REALLY CHANGED. He behaved better toward me.

In retrospect, I'm seeing more deeply, though, how all the family dynamics were affected, and how even when he behaved better toward me, I was still afraid to object to him snapping at my kids and being overly harsh with them. But had he really changed, had they all behaved decently NOW, yes, the past really was forgiven and in the past in my mind.

Part of my frustration is that they've set up an absolutely impossible standard for me to meet (watch all children at every moment, socialize, and help equally with all the work) and although they've never in their lives attempted what they're telling me to do, they are self-righteously informing me that of course I can and must do it, so just do it and we can all be happy again!

According to my sister, she was the meek child and I was the one who stood up and objected. And of course, my sister is still on great terms with my parents. But I know from the days she and I were on better terms that she has a lot of anger and resentment, too, at the things that were done and said to her.