How do I start with having the 'setting boundaries' coversation?
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 58
How do I start with having the 'setting boundaries' coversation?
I must admit that I am currently obsessing about the situation I find myself in. I go to bed thinking about it, I can't concentrate at work, I wake up thinking about it, I even feel like hitting the bottle myself when I get home from work!! If I didn't have these encouraging notes and thoughts I think I would have:
a) Told my mom to go take a running jump
b) Once again brushed it under the carpet never to spoken about again
c) Let her continue to see my son and worry about what mood she is in
There is not doubt on this earth that she utterly adores her only grandchild, her entire house is full of photo's, she constantly talks about him, she watches DVD's of when he was a baby all the time. She buys him presents and constantly looks for things he will like, she absolutely spoils him rotten! AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS SITUATION SO HARD
Having read some heart felt stories on here, I also find myself doubting whether it's that bad? She doesn't go missing, or stay out, or throw up, or pass out, or become abusive towards me or my family, or steal from me. She's just not quite right? Either manic or over emotional, or moody but these aren't extreme. Is this because I was on the merry-go-round with her when I lived there, so some of it seems to resemble some form of normality?
But then I just take a look at my first post and take inventory of all of the things that have happened and although not extreme (apart from the Drink Driving) it has probably caused as much damage. The lack of trust, the constant lies, the walking around on egg shells, the guessing game, giving her a kiss to see if I can smell anything her, the wondering what state she will be in when I am about to meet her, the worry that she may say or do something after alcohol has clouded her judgement?
I now have had the courage to enforce two weeks of no contact but my difficulty is that I haven't spoken to my mother about this. All of the conversation has happened with my father, as I can have a rational, non-confrontational discussion with him. So god knows what she thinks about the situation, she probably thinks I hate her and am punishing her for her behaviour. I still need to have that conversation with her and I understand your comment.
"To be honest, you can try to set a boundary here and say it as politely as possible and even put a pretty pink bow around it and the truth of the matter is they still will think you are trying to hurt them. It doesn't matter how nicely we try to break the news. The truth is, they are suffereing the consequences of their behavior."
I want to be clear about my boundaries but am worrying obsessivley how I have that conversation?
From some of the al-anon literature it seems that my behaviour and reactions won't aid her recovery, so I am confused?
I intend on working on changing my attitude towards her as I know it's not healthy to react the way that I do and I hope that Al-anon can help me with that but for now I can't see the best way to appraoch it
Take care of yourself
Mandjas
a) Told my mom to go take a running jump
b) Once again brushed it under the carpet never to spoken about again
c) Let her continue to see my son and worry about what mood she is in
There is not doubt on this earth that she utterly adores her only grandchild, her entire house is full of photo's, she constantly talks about him, she watches DVD's of when he was a baby all the time. She buys him presents and constantly looks for things he will like, she absolutely spoils him rotten! AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS SITUATION SO HARD
Having read some heart felt stories on here, I also find myself doubting whether it's that bad? She doesn't go missing, or stay out, or throw up, or pass out, or become abusive towards me or my family, or steal from me. She's just not quite right? Either manic or over emotional, or moody but these aren't extreme. Is this because I was on the merry-go-round with her when I lived there, so some of it seems to resemble some form of normality?
But then I just take a look at my first post and take inventory of all of the things that have happened and although not extreme (apart from the Drink Driving) it has probably caused as much damage. The lack of trust, the constant lies, the walking around on egg shells, the guessing game, giving her a kiss to see if I can smell anything her, the wondering what state she will be in when I am about to meet her, the worry that she may say or do something after alcohol has clouded her judgement?
I now have had the courage to enforce two weeks of no contact but my difficulty is that I haven't spoken to my mother about this. All of the conversation has happened with my father, as I can have a rational, non-confrontational discussion with him. So god knows what she thinks about the situation, she probably thinks I hate her and am punishing her for her behaviour. I still need to have that conversation with her and I understand your comment.
"To be honest, you can try to set a boundary here and say it as politely as possible and even put a pretty pink bow around it and the truth of the matter is they still will think you are trying to hurt them. It doesn't matter how nicely we try to break the news. The truth is, they are suffereing the consequences of their behavior."
I want to be clear about my boundaries but am worrying obsessivley how I have that conversation?
From some of the al-anon literature it seems that my behaviour and reactions won't aid her recovery, so I am confused?
I intend on working on changing my attitude towards her as I know it's not healthy to react the way that I do and I hope that Al-anon can help me with that but for now I can't see the best way to appraoch it
Take care of yourself
Mandjas
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I find it helpful to have a bottom line, write it out, do not engage, do not be drawn into a discussion, and to remember the boundary is in place to protect me and not modify their behavior.
No is a complete sentence, I need to realize I don't need to explain myself or why I am doing what I am doing.
Ex: I can't have you around my child if you have been drinking. Period.
No discussion, no deviation, no engagement.
Simple but not always easy, and easier said then done.
By writing it out on paper by the way, I can then "turn it over" and not obsess about it, when the thoughts come crowding in I can say to myself "Oh, I wrote that out, no need to think about it" and move on with my day/night. Repeat that thought as necessary, thousands of times if needed, it's good practice.
No is a complete sentence, I need to realize I don't need to explain myself or why I am doing what I am doing.
Ex: I can't have you around my child if you have been drinking. Period.
No discussion, no deviation, no engagement.
Simple but not always easy, and easier said then done.
By writing it out on paper by the way, I can then "turn it over" and not obsess about it, when the thoughts come crowding in I can say to myself "Oh, I wrote that out, no need to think about it" and move on with my day/night. Repeat that thought as necessary, thousands of times if needed, it's good practice.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Georgia (the state, not the country!)
Posts: 108
A few things to consider. First off, unless you want to, you definitely are not required to have any sort of conversation at all with her. I didn't have any sort of discussion with my mother as in, "I'm going to start setting boundaries." I just ... started setting boundaries. My situation is a little different but basically she is a codependent who has expected me to take care of her my whole life. That's extended to financial caretaking. She continues to make bad financial choices and sits there with her hand out for me and my brother. This last time, I told her no. I didn't make an excuse. I didn't say I didn't have it, because she knows I do. I said, "I'm sorry. I really can't."
She went crazy, attacked me etc. This was via e-mail. I didn't respond. It took a couple of weeks but she came around. We have not discussed what happened. Is our relationship the same? No. Does it need to be? No. Am I OK with that? Yes.
So really, you don't have to have a big confrontation. Let's say, for instance, that she wants to see your son. That's great, you say. But for the record, if you want to see him, here are the conditions. You don't have to be nasty about this, say it as nicely as you can. I would probably cloak it under the auspices as, "I know you love him as much as I do and we both want to keep him safe." But make no mistake about letting her know this is how it's going to be, and if she does anything to put him in jeopardy, that's it.
If she doesn't accept that, I know it will be hard, but keep looking at it this way: it's not your problem. She has a choice. She can abide by your conditions and see her grandson, or she can not. It's entirely up to her. She is a grown woman and she is capable of choosing however she wants.
Since you guys haven't had contact for a couple of weeks, it's probably hard to just start up acting normal, and I get that. You could just tell her that you took a break and have been doing some thinking.
I think it would be helpful as well to perhaps talk to a counselor about this who can work with you in learning to detach. Al-anon has been helpful for me, but my therapist has also been helpful -- hard to talk so much about your specific situation in an al-anon meeting.
In the meantime, get your hands on everything you can read regarding boundary-setting and detachment. And don't be too hard on yourself. This is a PROCESS, there are no "right answers" and there is no point when you will know everything here. Just do what you feel is right and try not to get upset.
It's hard for me to describe it, but I think my recovery actually started a while back, WAY back, when I tried to turn my mother down for money and she was railing at me on the phone. I thought, "Wow, I never knew you were so manipulative." For the first time, I could hear the desperation in her voice. Until then, we were enmeshed and she could do no wrong.
Now, lots of times I feel like I'm watching my parents' behavior through a window. I feel strangely removed from all their drama, although sometimes of course the old pattern takes over and I get sucked back in. But I think that "click" in my head was what started it. Try to find your own "click." Everything gets different after that. Note I didn't say better, because sometimes it's painful. But overall I know I'm on the right track and probably for the first time in my life, I'm taking care of myself. (Hence takincareome.)
I'm wishing you lots of love and hugs. Please try to relax about this and be gentle with yourself. xoxo. (sorry for the novel!)
She went crazy, attacked me etc. This was via e-mail. I didn't respond. It took a couple of weeks but she came around. We have not discussed what happened. Is our relationship the same? No. Does it need to be? No. Am I OK with that? Yes.
So really, you don't have to have a big confrontation. Let's say, for instance, that she wants to see your son. That's great, you say. But for the record, if you want to see him, here are the conditions. You don't have to be nasty about this, say it as nicely as you can. I would probably cloak it under the auspices as, "I know you love him as much as I do and we both want to keep him safe." But make no mistake about letting her know this is how it's going to be, and if she does anything to put him in jeopardy, that's it.
If she doesn't accept that, I know it will be hard, but keep looking at it this way: it's not your problem. She has a choice. She can abide by your conditions and see her grandson, or she can not. It's entirely up to her. She is a grown woman and she is capable of choosing however she wants.
Since you guys haven't had contact for a couple of weeks, it's probably hard to just start up acting normal, and I get that. You could just tell her that you took a break and have been doing some thinking.
I think it would be helpful as well to perhaps talk to a counselor about this who can work with you in learning to detach. Al-anon has been helpful for me, but my therapist has also been helpful -- hard to talk so much about your specific situation in an al-anon meeting.
In the meantime, get your hands on everything you can read regarding boundary-setting and detachment. And don't be too hard on yourself. This is a PROCESS, there are no "right answers" and there is no point when you will know everything here. Just do what you feel is right and try not to get upset.
It's hard for me to describe it, but I think my recovery actually started a while back, WAY back, when I tried to turn my mother down for money and she was railing at me on the phone. I thought, "Wow, I never knew you were so manipulative." For the first time, I could hear the desperation in her voice. Until then, we were enmeshed and she could do no wrong.
Now, lots of times I feel like I'm watching my parents' behavior through a window. I feel strangely removed from all their drama, although sometimes of course the old pattern takes over and I get sucked back in. But I think that "click" in my head was what started it. Try to find your own "click." Everything gets different after that. Note I didn't say better, because sometimes it's painful. But overall I know I'm on the right track and probably for the first time in my life, I'm taking care of myself. (Hence takincareome.)
I'm wishing you lots of love and hugs. Please try to relax about this and be gentle with yourself. xoxo. (sorry for the novel!)
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Georgia (the state, not the country!)
Posts: 108
Oh, and PS: Please don't fall into the trap of, "is it that bad?" This is merely another form of denial. If it has you this upset, if it places your son's safety in jeopardy, if it is causing you problems, IT'S THAT BAD. No matter what your situation.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 87
Mandjas,
I had difficulty writing the letter that I did to my mom last week. Prior to that, I refused to answer her phone calls for almost three weeks. I was taking an honest and hard look at my relationship with her, trying to figure out what is the best step to take next and how to approach her. The problem was, i was racking my brain forever trying to figure out how to allow my mom to come and see my newborn child. I didn't approve of nor feel comfortable with any of the methods that she was suggesting. Therefore, i shared with her some of my thoughts and set conditions down (see the thread "moving on" I included my email in there). As of today, it has been approximately a week since she has responded. I'm not sure if she'll ever talk to me again being the fact that she thinks I'm a creep for expecting her to drive herself to see her newborn grandaughter like a normal person. There is no excuse as to of why she should not have her driver's license other than she's too lazy to spend a day doing it. She's that bad of a drunk...still the same ever since I grew up living with her. So, being that she refuses to change her life in any constructive way, why should I give her the privilege of seeing her grandkid by going out of my way to pick her up from various places, risk her lying to me about my stepdad driving her, deal with her bad attitude and someone who flat out is only concerned about herself when it comes down to it? Sure she is nice to me on the phone when i talk about my children, but in terms of the long-term...she is not willing to do what it takes to be involved in my life and my children's. So I'm not going to go out of my way to cater to her so that she is included. That's her job. Sure she adores my kids....but not enough to clean up her act...so...tough love...too bad so sad. She can't see my kids b/c she won't get a license. i wouldn't want her behind the wheel anyway! Does it suck? Sure it does...but not as bad as enabling her would.
I had difficulty writing the letter that I did to my mom last week. Prior to that, I refused to answer her phone calls for almost three weeks. I was taking an honest and hard look at my relationship with her, trying to figure out what is the best step to take next and how to approach her. The problem was, i was racking my brain forever trying to figure out how to allow my mom to come and see my newborn child. I didn't approve of nor feel comfortable with any of the methods that she was suggesting. Therefore, i shared with her some of my thoughts and set conditions down (see the thread "moving on" I included my email in there). As of today, it has been approximately a week since she has responded. I'm not sure if she'll ever talk to me again being the fact that she thinks I'm a creep for expecting her to drive herself to see her newborn grandaughter like a normal person. There is no excuse as to of why she should not have her driver's license other than she's too lazy to spend a day doing it. She's that bad of a drunk...still the same ever since I grew up living with her. So, being that she refuses to change her life in any constructive way, why should I give her the privilege of seeing her grandkid by going out of my way to pick her up from various places, risk her lying to me about my stepdad driving her, deal with her bad attitude and someone who flat out is only concerned about herself when it comes down to it? Sure she is nice to me on the phone when i talk about my children, but in terms of the long-term...she is not willing to do what it takes to be involved in my life and my children's. So I'm not going to go out of my way to cater to her so that she is included. That's her job. Sure she adores my kids....but not enough to clean up her act...so...tough love...too bad so sad. She can't see my kids b/c she won't get a license. i wouldn't want her behind the wheel anyway! Does it suck? Sure it does...but not as bad as enabling her would.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by reverse 
Mandjas,
So, being that she refuses to change her life in any constructive way, why should I give her the privilege of seeing her grandkid
Sure she is nice to me on the phone when i talk about my children, but in terms of the long-term...she is not willing to do what it takes to be involved in my life and my children's. So I'm not going to go out of my way to cater to her so that she is included. That's her job. Sure she adores my kids....but not enough to clean up her act...so...tough love...too bad so sad.
Does it suck? Sure it does...but not as bad as enabling her would.
So, being that she refuses to change her life in any constructive way, why should I give her the privilege of seeing her grandkid
Sure she is nice to me on the phone when i talk about my children, but in terms of the long-term...she is not willing to do what it takes to be involved in my life and my children's. So I'm not going to go out of my way to cater to her so that she is included. That's her job. Sure she adores my kids....but not enough to clean up her act...so...tough love...too bad so sad.
Does it suck? Sure it does...but not as bad as enabling her would.
Do you know it has just hit me that before she was even an alcoholic she displayed the behaviours of one??? Strange I know but the manipulative behaviour, the moods, the walking on egg shells, the not knowing what you have done wrong to deserve the slient treatment. My mother has alwyas been pre-occupied with men (maried 3 times and many boyfriends), had anorexia, bullimia, addiction to speed and slimming tablets (which I used to get for her in my mispent youth).
Someone on a post here recommended I think about why I react the way I do and I guess it because I don't want my son exposed to what I was exposed to as a young girl. She was married to a man who drank heavily and there would be some terrible arguements in the house, I remember police being called on some occasions. I remember how that made be feel, scared, uncertain, insecure. I NEVER WANT MY SON TO FEEL THOSE FEELINGS! Maybe that's wy I react the way I do? Or maybe I'm over analysing myself! LOL
Goodnght from me, speak to you again soon
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by Mandjas
That's exactly how I feel about her but isn't that detachment with anger rather than love? That's why I can't get my head around ow to do it with love, when it comes down to it I don't really feel that much love at the moment.
Do I feel anger and hurt? Of course I do because of the poor choices she's making. Her choices do affect the entire family. Her choices exclude her family...and do not advocate for family. Therefore I believe I have righteous anger. That I deal with on my own as I learn to let go and move on with my life. If she doesn't want to be a part of it, I can't put my life on hold for until she suddenly decides she wants to be proactive in our family. Life goes on with or without her and that is just the "hard truth" of life. Addiction takes everything away that is good. It only destroyes. If I were to somehow treat my mom "special" because she's an alchoholic would be in my opinion...enabling her....and telling her ...its ok..u can be a drunk adn I'll do whatever u want me to b/c u are a drunk and u can't help it. Alcoholism is a choice...as ugly as it is. And I do hate alcoholism...I am proud to say it. Never would I advocate for something so destructive...and never would I participate in it.
Not sure if that helps you, but I do know how u feel. For sooo long I was sooo worried about offending my mom (and other codependent family members) and obsessed about the "perfect" way to confront her...but now I realize...there is no perfect way to say it. They're not going to like the boundaries I set b/c they dont' see that there is a problem....or a need for me to set boundaries. If they would agree w/ me...then they probably wouldn't have a problem to begin with. :p IDk...don't be so hard on urself...the more you contemplate this..the harder it will get. Think of u. Hope that helps.
I mean, the main issue is your concern for you child's safety and also for your emotional and mental well-being. You don't have to tolerate being lied to, etc. Another thought I consider is why is it that people who are drunk, insist that they are ok to drive? Because their judgement is impaired....so no matter how sober someone insists they are and u know they have been drinking, don't buy into it. I've seen what happens to people who end up in crashes b/c of drunk driving. I'd hate to see something like that happen to ur child simply b/c u are afraid of offending your mom. Many blessings to u!
Last edited by reverse; 10-14-2009 at 04:53 PM.
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