It wasn't as bad as all that!! Redefining abuse
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It wasn't as bad as all that!! Redefining abuse
Need to ramble...
What exactly is abuse?
Redefining myself as an abused child is something that I am currently struggling with.
When it was first put to me that I was abused as a child, I slammed down impenetrable barriers - no, that wasn't me. I wasn't one of the extreme horror cases reported by the media. I wasn't abused - no way, no how. Good denial reflexes that allowed me to continue to function.
The comment never went away though, it niggled at me, demanding that I exam it. If I was never abused, why did my childhood hurt so much and why was it still hurting me? Why have I always been depressed and anxiety ridden?
I did a little exercise, I wrote down headings: sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal / emotional / psychological abuse and neglect. On my very first post on this forum (10 days ago), I wrote that I could be thankful I wasn't sexually or physically abused - I mean I hadn't been r@ped or beaten repeatedly with a stick. Even then I still wasn't prepared to apply those words to me. My lists (which run into pages) say otherwise, each heading has stuff written under it, it's there in black and white. I was reading Codependent No More where Melody Beattie quotes an "extreme" example of a codependent enabler. I thought, that's not extreme, that's mild. There it is again, black and white. Your case is severe, extreme - it was that bad.
So, why can't I grasp hold of this? I can recognise it intellectually but I can't feel anything but numbness. No anger, no pain. You know that soft part of you that hurts when people verbally stick the knife in. I can still feel pain when my mother emotionally abuses me (it's like death by a thousand cuts - we may be nc but her voice is still in my head) but I still cannot feel any pain when I say to myself, IWTH you WERE abused, it's true. It sort of bounces off that soft part of me inside.
I've been thinking about her "It wasn't that bad" messages. Less than three weeks ago, she said to me, your brother's been talking about his childhood, it wasn't that bad, he's remembering it wrong, why can't he let the past stay in the past. I wanted to stand up and scream "Yes, it was that bad" but I didn't, I said something naff like everyone's perception is different. So that got me thinking about spoken and unspoken messages and then I get myself all tied up in knots.
Any thoughts about what's really going on here??
Thx, IWTH xxx
What exactly is abuse?
Redefining myself as an abused child is something that I am currently struggling with.
When it was first put to me that I was abused as a child, I slammed down impenetrable barriers - no, that wasn't me. I wasn't one of the extreme horror cases reported by the media. I wasn't abused - no way, no how. Good denial reflexes that allowed me to continue to function.
The comment never went away though, it niggled at me, demanding that I exam it. If I was never abused, why did my childhood hurt so much and why was it still hurting me? Why have I always been depressed and anxiety ridden?
I did a little exercise, I wrote down headings: sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal / emotional / psychological abuse and neglect. On my very first post on this forum (10 days ago), I wrote that I could be thankful I wasn't sexually or physically abused - I mean I hadn't been r@ped or beaten repeatedly with a stick. Even then I still wasn't prepared to apply those words to me. My lists (which run into pages) say otherwise, each heading has stuff written under it, it's there in black and white. I was reading Codependent No More where Melody Beattie quotes an "extreme" example of a codependent enabler. I thought, that's not extreme, that's mild. There it is again, black and white. Your case is severe, extreme - it was that bad.
So, why can't I grasp hold of this? I can recognise it intellectually but I can't feel anything but numbness. No anger, no pain. You know that soft part of you that hurts when people verbally stick the knife in. I can still feel pain when my mother emotionally abuses me (it's like death by a thousand cuts - we may be nc but her voice is still in my head) but I still cannot feel any pain when I say to myself, IWTH you WERE abused, it's true. It sort of bounces off that soft part of me inside.
I've been thinking about her "It wasn't that bad" messages. Less than three weeks ago, she said to me, your brother's been talking about his childhood, it wasn't that bad, he's remembering it wrong, why can't he let the past stay in the past. I wanted to stand up and scream "Yes, it was that bad" but I didn't, I said something naff like everyone's perception is different. So that got me thinking about spoken and unspoken messages and then I get myself all tied up in knots.
Any thoughts about what's really going on here??
Thx, IWTH xxx
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Rambling is good...I love it
I wish I had answers for you but I don't because I am still trying to sort this out, too. And I'm 52 years old.
When I was in my mid-twenties and married for 6-7 years, my husband told me one day, "You raised yourself...you had absentee parents." I slammed down those barriers just like you. I thought he was nuts. My AF had a job where he had his office out of our home and was in and out most days. My mother worked (not so common back then) and my sister and I had to let ourselves in after school. But she came home, cooked an evening meal, and was there physically.
It took me a long time, but I eventually saw what he meant, as we had two children together and I saw how the feelings I had for my children reflected how I treated them. There was no way my mother had those feelings for me and treated me the way she did.
They WERE absentee parents. Father was an alcoholic and mother was extreme codependent and had no energy left for her children. Just because they were there physically doesn't mean we weren't neglected. We were.
My mother treated my sister very differently than she treated me. I won't get into the details on this post, but wanted to point out that could be why your brouther may have a different perspective on his childhood than you do on yours. Or...maybe he's got stronger codepencency issues and feels a need to appease your mother (seeking acceptance).
Our intellect and our emotions are sometimes hard to reconcile. You mentioned that your mother can still "cut" you with her remarks. I know that feeling only too well. I still deal with that, too. And I acknowledge, on an intellectual basis just like you, that I was abused. But if they can still cut us with "surface remarks" today, how bad is it going to hurt if we delve deeply into everything in our past that relates to our abuse? I have been terrified of that pain for most of my adult life.
Again I wish I had some answers for you. I just wanted to post to let you know you are not alone and your feelings are very real. Are we running? I don't know. Hopefully, for your sake and mine as well, someone with answers will post and help us start working through this part. We've acknowledged it...now what do we do?
Thoughts, prayers, concerns and caring,
Leelee
I wish I had answers for you but I don't because I am still trying to sort this out, too. And I'm 52 years old.
When I was in my mid-twenties and married for 6-7 years, my husband told me one day, "You raised yourself...you had absentee parents." I slammed down those barriers just like you. I thought he was nuts. My AF had a job where he had his office out of our home and was in and out most days. My mother worked (not so common back then) and my sister and I had to let ourselves in after school. But she came home, cooked an evening meal, and was there physically.
It took me a long time, but I eventually saw what he meant, as we had two children together and I saw how the feelings I had for my children reflected how I treated them. There was no way my mother had those feelings for me and treated me the way she did.
They WERE absentee parents. Father was an alcoholic and mother was extreme codependent and had no energy left for her children. Just because they were there physically doesn't mean we weren't neglected. We were.
My mother treated my sister very differently than she treated me. I won't get into the details on this post, but wanted to point out that could be why your brouther may have a different perspective on his childhood than you do on yours. Or...maybe he's got stronger codepencency issues and feels a need to appease your mother (seeking acceptance).
Our intellect and our emotions are sometimes hard to reconcile. You mentioned that your mother can still "cut" you with her remarks. I know that feeling only too well. I still deal with that, too. And I acknowledge, on an intellectual basis just like you, that I was abused. But if they can still cut us with "surface remarks" today, how bad is it going to hurt if we delve deeply into everything in our past that relates to our abuse? I have been terrified of that pain for most of my adult life.
Again I wish I had some answers for you. I just wanted to post to let you know you are not alone and your feelings are very real. Are we running? I don't know. Hopefully, for your sake and mine as well, someone with answers will post and help us start working through this part. We've acknowledged it...now what do we do?
Thoughts, prayers, concerns and caring,
Leelee
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Thank you for your lovely post Leelee, it meant a lot.
I need to clarify one thing on my original post, I've just re-read it and it's not at all clear. That's one of the problems when you ramble on a forum - doh!
My brother is in complete agreement with me that we were abused as children. He is in a dark place - he is bitter, resentful, angry and vindictive. He is also an alcoholic and he's getting worse (just recently admitted that to myself). He has recently confronted our mother on our childhood and she is in complete denial. She is adamant that it wasn't as bad as all that and that my brother's memory was wrong.
I know what you mean about being scared of the pain. Recently I have been trying to listen to my body and trying to identify what feels right and true, instead of damping my feelings down or ignoring them ie relearning to marry-up my thoughts and feelings. I'm doing very well apart from this area of abuse which is making me crazy. I know it happened in my head, I cannot feel it as true in my gut because it was never recognised or validated, my reaction then is maybe my mother is right, maybe it wasn't as bad as she said, maybe I'm the crazy one, no I know it happened (my brother remembers it) , why can't I feel it and round I go on the crazy-roundabout again.
Ye Gods, who would be an ACAO?
I need to clarify one thing on my original post, I've just re-read it and it's not at all clear. That's one of the problems when you ramble on a forum - doh!
My brother is in complete agreement with me that we were abused as children. He is in a dark place - he is bitter, resentful, angry and vindictive. He is also an alcoholic and he's getting worse (just recently admitted that to myself). He has recently confronted our mother on our childhood and she is in complete denial. She is adamant that it wasn't as bad as all that and that my brother's memory was wrong.
I know what you mean about being scared of the pain. Recently I have been trying to listen to my body and trying to identify what feels right and true, instead of damping my feelings down or ignoring them ie relearning to marry-up my thoughts and feelings. I'm doing very well apart from this area of abuse which is making me crazy. I know it happened in my head, I cannot feel it as true in my gut because it was never recognised or validated, my reaction then is maybe my mother is right, maybe it wasn't as bad as she said, maybe I'm the crazy one, no I know it happened (my brother remembers it) , why can't I feel it and round I go on the crazy-roundabout again.
Ye Gods, who would be an ACAO?
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My first husband was an alcoholic, and I often characterize that marriage as abusive -- not physically abusive, but definitely emotionally and mentally abusive. It's funny how I will apply that standard to him but not to my parents, who probably inflicted just as much emotional abuse on me, if not more.
Here's a thought: Maybe by someone else's standards it might not have been that bad. Did it damage you? Yes. Do you continue to struggle with its effects? Yes. Does it cause you pain? Yes. So it's bad to YOU.
I find I get in a bad spot when I start comparing myself to others -- I wasn't raped, I wasn't beaten, I wasn't starved. No, I wasn't any of those things, but I didn't have a wonderful childhood, either. Was I abused? Yes. Were you abused? It sounds like it. By some people's standards, it might not constitute abuse, and it might not sound that terrible. But we're still struggling with it. And it was abuse to us. And it and its aftereffects are very real.
As far as your mom saying, "It wasn't that bad," I think that's pure denial. If she played a role in it, I'm sure she doesn't want to acknowledge it and accept responsibility. So I think you can dismiss that out of hand, rather than let it cause you to question what you know is true. You know?
Hugs. What happened to us might not have been that bad, to some people. But it was bad enough, wasn't it?
Here's a thought: Maybe by someone else's standards it might not have been that bad. Did it damage you? Yes. Do you continue to struggle with its effects? Yes. Does it cause you pain? Yes. So it's bad to YOU.
I find I get in a bad spot when I start comparing myself to others -- I wasn't raped, I wasn't beaten, I wasn't starved. No, I wasn't any of those things, but I didn't have a wonderful childhood, either. Was I abused? Yes. Were you abused? It sounds like it. By some people's standards, it might not constitute abuse, and it might not sound that terrible. But we're still struggling with it. And it was abuse to us. And it and its aftereffects are very real.
As far as your mom saying, "It wasn't that bad," I think that's pure denial. If she played a role in it, I'm sure she doesn't want to acknowledge it and accept responsibility. So I think you can dismiss that out of hand, rather than let it cause you to question what you know is true. You know?
Hugs. What happened to us might not have been that bad, to some people. But it was bad enough, wasn't it?
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Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal 
...What exactly is abuse? ....
Doesn't matter what _kind_ of hurt. Or how much. Abuse causes pain. That simple.
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal
... So, why can't I grasp hold of this? I can recognise it intellectually but I can't feel anything but numbness.....
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal
... Any thoughts about what's really going on here?? ....
This is what it feels like to heal. Numbness is one of the stages, and it passes. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal
... So that got me thinking about spoken and unspoken messages and then I get myself all tied up in knots.....
) you will feel the numbness and shock slip away. Then you will have other feelings, perhaps anger (that's what I felt) perhaps anguish, perhaps guilt (I had a lot of that ). Yes. You _were_ abused. Yes. It was deeply, horribly painful. And yes, you will overcome all of that horrid past and build a new life for yourself that is happy, joyous and free. That's what all of us here are doing. That's is what you have started to build by recognizing that you feel numb, and my sharing your feelings with us.
Me thinks you are off to a real good start
Mike
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My memories and blocked memories were so disconnected from my emotions that I projected all my pain onto other people, places, and things. Because of that my mind couldn't wrap itself around the abuse.
When my memories reconnected with the painful emotions that the abuse caused it all became clear.
When my memories reconnected with the painful emotions that the abuse caused it all became clear.
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This post has really helped me after reading it. I know my family looked normal enough. But I still got hurt. And even though i dont talk to my sister about it i know it didn't help her either. I may write a post about the past sometime soon. (maybe even today) Just to get it out.
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Your brain has spent a lifetime learning to block the emotions tied to these events. Now that your consciously ready to face it, it may take your brain some time to let its barriers down.
Abuse is in the eye of the beholder. I agree that your mom is in denial. But if she grew up learning that this treatment of children was "normal" from her own parents, then she may honestly believe that she hasn't done anything wrong - in spite of the pain she endured with her own upbringing. It was what she was taught. And before she can look beyond herself to recognize your pain, she needs to sort out within herself how to acknowledge and feel her own pain. That's not your fault or your brother's fault, but it is part of the sh*tty hand you've been dealt (especially for your brother who seems to be seeking validation these days).
DesertMike's advice is right-on! Try googling the stages of grief. Have a look. You are in the middle of letting go of the dreamy memory you accepted as your upbringing. As you're letting go of your denial, you're also letting go of another layer of innocence (e.g. my parent would never be cruel like that to me), hope (e.g. my relationship with my parent will eventually get better, a.k.a. my parent WILL get better), and even the relationships you thought you had with other family members. You're not much different than someone who just lost their spouse - you're forced to redefine your life. It's a huge loss.
Been there. Was told that. 
Abuse is in the eye of the beholder. I agree that your mom is in denial. But if she grew up learning that this treatment of children was "normal" from her own parents, then she may honestly believe that she hasn't done anything wrong - in spite of the pain she endured with her own upbringing. It was what she was taught. And before she can look beyond herself to recognize your pain, she needs to sort out within herself how to acknowledge and feel her own pain. That's not your fault or your brother's fault, but it is part of the sh*tty hand you've been dealt (especially for your brother who seems to be seeking validation these days).
DesertMike's advice is right-on! Try googling the stages of grief. Have a look. You are in the middle of letting go of the dreamy memory you accepted as your upbringing. As you're letting go of your denial, you're also letting go of another layer of innocence (e.g. my parent would never be cruel like that to me), hope (e.g. my relationship with my parent will eventually get better, a.k.a. my parent WILL get better), and even the relationships you thought you had with other family members. You're not much different than someone who just lost their spouse - you're forced to redefine your life. It's a huge loss.
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal
why can't he let the past stay in the past...
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Originally Posted by 03fifteen
I may write a post about the past sometime soon. (maybe even today) Just to get it out.
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Originally Posted by takincareome
That's a good point, Dothi. Mom might actually believe she's done nothing wrong if she was only doing what she'd been taught from her own parents.
Yes, to a certain extent and up to a certain point. I have certainly gone through the where did she (Mum) learn that behaviour from argument. Oh she must have learnt that from her own mum and dad (my Grandparents). However, there are elements of personal choice here. I have NOT heaped abuse on my own son and daughter. I knew instinctively it was wrong and chose to parent differently. I have also thought about shifts in cultural values towards children and I'm sorry but even thirty years ago it was not acceptable to allow your daughter to sleep in a room that rats could get into (No, we didn't live in the countryside either).
No as far as my Mum was concerned, at some level she knew it was wrong and she chose to do nothing about it. That's why she continually rewrites our past to be the golden years - oops, guess the bitterness is starting to seep out now.
Why am I just writing about Mum here. My AF was also 50% responsible however, of course he was drinking himself into unconsciousness in his chair in front of the fire.
Yep, it's starting to feel real now.
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes
It is abuse if it hurts.
Doesn't matter what _kind_ of hurt. Or how much. Abuse causes pain. That simple.
Yes. You _were_ abused. Yes. It was deeply, horribly painful. And yes, you will overcome all of that horrid past and build a new life for yourself that is happy, joyous and free. That's what all of us here are doing. That's is what you have started to build by recognizing that you feel numb, and my sharing your feelings with us.
Doesn't matter what _kind_ of hurt. Or how much. Abuse causes pain. That simple.
Yes. You _were_ abused. Yes. It was deeply, horribly painful. And yes, you will overcome all of that horrid past and build a new life for yourself that is happy, joyous and free. That's what all of us here are doing. That's is what you have started to build by recognizing that you feel numb, and my sharing your feelings with us.
I read your post at 9 o'clock this morning and it's taken me 12 hours to be able to reply.
Something inside me went "twang". I started to cry and I started to connect with the pain. I panicked and shut the lid down but it wouldn't stay shut. I started to heave, great big dry sobs from somewhere deep, deep down inside me. I fell onto my knees, curled into a ball and shook. I wailed, beat my fists and kicked my feet. I thought of my own 14 year old daughter and started to really, really cry. I could NEVER, NEVER, NEVER treat my daughter the way I had been treated. Why did my Mum and Dad treat me that way? The knowledge and acceptance that I was worth less than alcohol for my Dad, and was not worth making the effort to get me out of that poisonous environment for my Mum seared me to my very core.
The pain is there. What happened to me was real. Thank you.
I have made an appointment to see a family therapist on Monday morning and I will be going to my first Al-Anon (no ACAO round here) meeting on Tuesday evening
I'm doing good.
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