Too screwed up to fix

Old 07-02-2009, 05:46 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
riaerif's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maumee, OH
Posts: 68
Too screwed up to fix

Like all good enablers/codependents/ACOA I flit in and out. I show up, whine, get some support and then flit away to lose myself in this fantasy that everything is okay. I never stay because eventually someone is going to hate me or not like me or whatever excuse I give myself from day to day.

But I've kept this site hidden away on my bookmarks to use if I needed help.

Yesterday I argued with my mom who is a recovering addict. I finally asked her, "Do you realize how screwed up I am? I'm talking nuts, here!"

Then I asked her if on her list of crap that she screwed up and had to fix if I was anywhere on it because I was the most broken of all.

I told her I wasn't taking care of her anymore and that I was tired of hearing her whine about how I don't understand anything and at least I had a husband. Of course, I sunk to a low level and told her she was the lucky one because she had a sap like me to follow her around and clean up all her messes. *sigh*

I went to Al-Anon meetings. I hated them. I couldn't understand how any of that junk was supposed to lead me to finally feeling some justice. I want my mom to suffer for everything she's done to mess things up from the time I was a kid.

I try constantly to get her to love me the way I want her to and that's so dumb. It'll never happen. It never has. She's very controlling and when she screws up I can finally get in her face and tell her off and I LOVE it. That can't be healthy. I want her to be the one who desperately wants MY attention and love for once. I'm tired of her crap and if I had my way I'd be gone.

I'm too old for this. I'm 32 and have two children and we need to get away from her. We were all so close when she was in jail. Now that she's back (yes, we all live together. It's her home and my husband and I and his family pay for all the bills and mortgage and stuff so she wouldn't lose her house.) my marriage is strained and my children are unhappy more because I'm unhappy more.

I just hate this. I really want to hate her. Sometimes I think I do. Today is one of those days. After my big revealing confession to her last night about what I really need she stopped talking to me. She's cold, but polite. Why doesn't she want my love as much as I always wanted hers? How come she can act like a cold b**** to me when she's the one who always screwed up?

Did I do this? Did I stay by her side and somehow that means I'm responsible for this? It doesn't matter. I really am way too screwed up by now to untangle myself from this mess.

So here we are and she's finally a convicted felon after I don't know how many slaps on the wrist. Yet she doesn't deserve any of the bad stuff, she says. And I did?

Anyway, my children need me and somehow I have to find a way to cope and get healthy. I won't let them become like me if there's anything I can do to prevent it.
riaerif is offline  
Old 07-02-2009, 06:51 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
DesertEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello there riaerif, and pleased to "meet" you

Originally Posted by riaerif View Post
... I really am way too screwed up by now to untangle myself from this mess....
That line jumped out at me cuz that is _exactly_ the way I used to feel about _me_. I came from a toxic family too, alcholics all around. Messed up my head in a big way.

Originally Posted by riaerif View Post
...Anyway, my children need me and somehow I have to find a way to cope and get healthy. I won't let them become like me if there's anything I can do to prevent it. ...
That is the secret that freed me from the "chains" of my parents cycle of insanity. You say you won't let your children become like you, well that means that your children are healthy _now_. That's important, because it was something I didn't understand for a long time. Here's the secret:

_All_ children are born healthy. So was I. And so were you, riaerif. As a newborn baby you were born just like me and everybody else in the world. _healthy_.

All the cray stuff in my head I _learned_. That means that if I _learned_ it, then I can _unlearn_ it and choose to learn something else. That is what I have done. I found me a couple good therapists, and some good meetings of 12 step programs, and I _taught_ myself how to be healthy.

You know what? Your post is full of you saying what is not healthy about the things you do. That means you _understand_ what's not healthy, which clearly your Mom does not. you are _here_, sharing your story and looking for answers.

Just from reading your one post I can see that you are already starting on your path to a new life. And the biggest thing of all is that you _love_ your children in ways that nobody ever loved you. There's no doubt, you are much healthier than your mother.

Welcome to recovery, riaerif. You're going to get yourself a brand new life just the way you want it. The same as all the rest of us here are getting our own new lives. I'm glad you decided to join us.

Mike
DesertEyes is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 06:44 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
tromboneliness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by riaerif View Post
Then I asked her if on her list of crap that she screwed up and had to fix if I was anywhere on it because I was the most broken of all.... I went to Al-Anon meetings. I hated them. I couldn't understand how any of that junk was supposed to lead me to finally feeling some justice. I want my mom to suffer for everything she's done to mess things up from the time I was a kid. ..
Here's the deal: You are not going to feel "justice." That's not how it works. The alkie/druggie is not going to "fix the things they screwed up." They don't do that. Nor do they "suffer for everything [they've] done to mess things up." Not only do they not suffer -- they don't even have a clue that they've been anything other than model parents!

If you're waiting for those things to happen, you're not doing it right. Recovery -- whether it's with Al-Anon, ACA, or the other leading brands, is not about being the plaintiff in a lawsuit, with the alkie/druggie as the defendant. If it were, the jury would always rule in our favor, grant us a big judgment, and we'd be all set. But recovery has to do with letting go of resentments -- "giving up hope for a better past," so to speak.

My Dad -- the alcoholic, raging control freak, who is now 89 -- is not going to give me any recompense for the damage he inflicted upon me, my Mom, and my sister. That simply is not going to happen (or if it does, it'll have to be his doing -- and I am not holding my breath). I've got a lot of issues I'm working on, and although it would be nice to be able to talk some of them out with my Dad while he's still here, that ain't happening either -- it's going to have to be work I do on my own after he's gone.

Justice has nothing to do with it. It might be nice if it did -- but if we keep score, all we're doing is holding onto resentments, which is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Having busted your chops like that, I have to admit, I also feel like damaged goods that are too screwed up to fix. I think that's how we get, when we have alcoholic parents. There really isn't a great answer to it, except to be aware of it and work the program -- whichever one you want to work. But all's I'm sayin' is that it's not about waiting for the offender to straighten up and fly right, confess their sins, and make everything okay. That is not going to happen... we have to fix ourselves.

T
tromboneliness is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 08:40 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
riaerif's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maumee, OH
Posts: 68
DesertEyes, thank you so much for your response. I keep waiting for people to be hard on me because I know deep down that I have to change things and I'm probably miserable because I'm allowing myself to be miserable.

I'm just not at the point where I can get down to the nitty gritty of it. But your response did make me feel so much better because it is so hopeful. I guess I'm grateful I can at least see what's wrong. I'm not totally oblivious and that's a good thing.

My kids are great. They're so happy and healthy and yeah, you're right, I guess I was born that way, too. I really just never thought about it that way.

Anyway, thanks again. I'm glad I came back here to try and work on some things.


tromboneliness, You didn't really bust my chops. It sounds like you've been dealing with this a lot longer than I have so it's kind of nice to know there's something I am just going to have to deal with as far as that feeling of justice goes. I mean if it hasn't happened for you yet then maybe I shouldn't waste so much of my time holding my breath.

It's actually a bit freeing to hear that.

Now I have to find a way to accept it and live it. That's the hardest thing for me to do.

I'm really no good at follow through. I just have to figure out that part of it.
riaerif is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 05:55 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Being Silent so I can Hear
 
Still Waters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
riaerif,

I found counseling extremely helpful - for the untangling part. Is that something you would be willing to try? You can't control or change your Mom, but you sure can change you into a happy and healthy Mom for your kids
Still Waters is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 09:20 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Power is not having to respond
 
Wascally Wabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wabbit Hole
Posts: 1,923
I know how you feel about wanting to hate her. I am 54 years old, and I still struggle on occation with how I feel about my mother. She was the WORSE kind of alcoholic. Hateful, mean physically violent.
When I was 22 I left. I went as far away from her as I could. 10 years later she gets sober thru AA.
I was left with all the "I'm messed up" stuff too. Really really really messed up.
Getting away from her was what I had to do.
SHe's been sober 30 years. But, she is still a hypocondriac, paranoid about everything, controlling, and generally unpleasant person I always knew.
I did move 2 hours away from her in the last 10 years. Just far enough not to have to deal with it on a daily basis.
SHe visits occationally and I can handle that.
What I no longer tolerate is being manipulated.

I always wanted her to "love" me. I have come to the realization that no matter how bad I wanted that love, she was incapable of giving it. I had to accept it and move on. What else could I do? Wallow in self pity the rest of my life? NO. I have children, and grand children and that's where my energy goes.

I have a sister who refuses to have anything what so ever to do with her. Mom ran her off with all the hatefulness and trying to control everything.

I am all she has left. And, she walks a tight rope with me. I love her with all my heart. But, I don't think she's capable of returning that love. I can't do anything about that.
I am at peace with it.

As far as alanon goes, if you really want your sanity back, that's one heck of a good program. It takes time. You don't walk through it all in a week. It takes learning. practicing and time.
Wascally Wabbit is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
riaerif's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maumee, OH
Posts: 68
Still Waters, I'm willing to try counseling. I'm just scared to because of the bad experiences I've had before. I do think I am going to look into some places, though, and see what I can do to begin going.

Wascally Wabbit, that's just how I feel about my mom. I want her love so much, but yeah, I'm starting to realize I'm not going to get it, at least not in the way I want it. I think it's great you found a way to cope with everything. I hope I can, too, eventually.
riaerif is offline  
Old 07-09-2009, 09:36 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
My kids are great. They're so happy and healthy and yeah, you're right, I guess I was born that way, too. I really just never thought about it that way.
If they are living with you and your mom in the same house, they are not happy and healthy!

I agree, it's time to separate your self from you mom as in physically move away. Sit down with you hubby and talk about what you guys need to do to get away. Even if it means cutting her financially. If you keep providing for her you are still enabling and cannot get better.

I used to think I was so messed up no one could love me if they really knew how I was. I chose to not let that define me and work on a new me where I have healthy decisions and patterns. The old me was there a little bit but it did not make me who I wanted to me anymore.
sienna76 is offline  
Old 07-09-2009, 08:10 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
dothi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Just wanted to second physically and financially distancing yourself from your mom.

I also agree with sienna - that although your kids are doing great, consider what they are learning...

.....It's okay to be abused/disrespected/etc. by someone if they're family.

.....When someone treats you badly, it's your job to make them own up to it.

.....When you have your own family, you don't have to be responsible for your mistakes.
dothi is offline  
Old 07-10-2009, 12:20 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 37
I can't be entirely sure, but I think I'm in a similar place as you are. I'm stuck between anger and grief. I've done Al-non as well in the past, and while I think it is helpful in so many ways, in many ways I'm way beyond that. I'm beyond the addict and I'm all about ME. And how horrible I feel. Perhaps it was my specific branch, but it didn't address my anger/grief. I'm way beyond I didn't cause it, it's not my fault. I'm stuck at it's not fair that I (a healthy baby) got stuck with this. I really want to try ACA, but there aren't any in my area. I'm planning on making the hour drive to the closest one and attending with a cousin once my class load lightens up (and seeking some free counseling from school at the same time).

The don't tell don't feel motto of my family has so far always been my downfall and I hope to break it. My parents spend thousands of dollars on counseling on me in the past while trying to keep the cat in the bag. They let me look like the crazy one, while they were just a hard-working upper-middle-class family, how were they cursed with a daugher like me?
Prozac is offline  
Old 07-11-2009, 03:46 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
riaerif's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maumee, OH
Posts: 68
I sat down and talked to my husband about things and he thinks we should stay. At least for a month or so.

I told him I wanted he and I to decide what was best for our family with no consideration for her whatsoever. I didn't want to stay to help her or out of guilt and I also didn't want to leave just because she's a pain in my a$$ or to get back at her or anything.

But...

I know she's trying to recover. I mean... she goes to all of her meetings and we are civil, but the resentment I feel for her is eating me up and that's my problem and not something I need to dump on her. But I'm not going to pretend the idea of leaving doesn't appeal to me only because I want to help her by not being around to hurt her.

Hell, I would LOVE to walk away and be fine. The idea of not having to deal with her is enough to fill me with this sense of euphoria and hope.

But my husband and I don't think we can afford our own place with the price of rent and all around here and there is no way I'm going to yank my daughter out of this excellent school system when she loves it like she does.

Life would be so nice if she would leave and move in with my grandmother or into a 1-bedroom apartment. But that's silly and I know it.

So it's not just about the fact my mom is an addict. I have enough s*** to think about without everything being about how she affects my life. I'm not sure how to weigh each one as far as importance. Is getting away from my mom more important than letting my dtr stay at the school she wants?

I'm tired of giving stuff up just because she's around and in trouble and dealing with her stupid drugs. Why can't SHE be the one to go for once? Why can't SHE sacrifice something for ONCE to let US heal instead of the other way around?

And I know this isn't the way I'm supposed to talk, but right now I don't care. I'm just p***ed off and "dealing" with it without exploding on everyone else is taking some time to work through.
riaerif is offline  
Old 07-11-2009, 06:45 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
GiveLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. I wish there were some magic wand that would make it all go away --- beLIEVE me I do, because I have a lot of experience in the "I hate you, why won't you love me" department and I would appreciate a little instant gratification on that score!!

But you're making a choice here: On the one hand is the relative freedom from guilt and the relatively easy financial situation of staying. On the other is the fact that your mother's choices are eating you alive and are poisoning you, ruining your days.

It's a miserable choice, but I've always found that it helps me work through terrible **** faster if I admit that I am choosing to stay in it. Doesn't make it easier - just makes the obstacle clear so I'm sure I'm trying to jump the right one. There might be perfectly good reasons why I'm making that choice, but ultimately the responsibility to save myself lies in my own hands.

For me, a school system would not be a good enough reason to put myself through this kind of torture. Your daughter is not going to look back on this fifty years from now and think, "Thank god I was in that school system, it made me the success I am today." But she may look back and tell others the story of how stressed, angry and unavailable her mother was for her childhood, and how long it took her to recover from that.

Counseling saved my life -- I went through three different ones and the third was a charm. I chose someone who had experience with children of addicts, and it made all the difference in my life. In my humble opinion, it is worth trying the same.....for your sake, and for your daughter's.

You will be okay. It's just a really tough patch of road, and my heart aches for you. But it doesn't have to last forever.


GL

Last edited by GiveLove; 07-11-2009 at 07:41 PM. Reason: endless typo-fest
GiveLove is offline  
Old 07-12-2009, 07:09 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
riaerif's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maumee, OH
Posts: 68
GiveLove,

I never thought about it that way with the school system and how my daughter will see things.

I'm a good mom, she tells me, and I love my children more than anything else. Spending time with them is the greatest joy in my life and I find myself isolating from them more and more only because I'm so angry all the time.

You're right. My daughter wouldn't care about a school system, especially if she has a happy and healthy mom by her side telling her she can do anything she sets her mind to instead of a mom who closes herself off to deal with all the baggage she's willingly carried for years.

Thank you for finding something to tell me that gave me clarity in this moment. I really needed it.
riaerif is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:50 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Guess what, I'm not crazy.
 
lostnfound1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 286
I hope this does not upset you but you need to take your family and get out of that house. You need to have your life and let your monther have hers. If she falls on her face and looses the house..... Those are her choices. As long as she is drinking and sick, you will never get the love you so long for.

The other thing I worry about is that you will end up with a messed up marrage and your kids will be going through a lot of the same stuff you did and wondering why the hell you made them live there.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I know how you feel. My mom and dad were alcoholics and it hurts a lot. My husband and I are also alcoholics but I am in recovory and boy does it hurt to be the sober one. All the stuff you mom is doing to you..... My mom did to me an now my husband has taken that place.

They are sick and wont get well unless they choose to. The only thing you are doing wrong is putting her before your family and your self. She needs to take her life back and you need to give it to her. Get your life back and be happy.

Hey one other thing. It sounds like you do the same as me by compartmentelizing your feelings. You have bad days that are real bad and good days that are real good but you cant seem to have a day where things are bad and good at the same time. It's how I learned to survive as a kid.

If you ever want to talk one on one, I am more than willing. I don't judge and I wont hate you. Your feelings are yours and you have a right to them.
Im here if you need me.
D
lostnfound1961 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 11:14 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
Life would be so nice if she would leave and move in with my grandmother or into a 1-bedroom apartment. But that's silly and I know it.
But my husband and I don't think we can afford our own place with the price of rent and all around here and there is no way I'm going to yank my daughter out of this excellent school system when she loves it like she does.
I agree with above - your daughter will be much better off with a happy sane family life and a mediocre school, than a great school and a crappy home life. To me it shouldn't even be a factor for staying. No factor is good enough to allow you to stay.

I was backtracking to see the living arrangement explanation... Can you ask her to live with her mother? Your family can't afford an apt. alone?

There is no way on earth your kids will grow up normal if you keep your family in the same house as her. The effects will be deep and will show up later in life, as we all can attest to that. I hope you can work something out to get away.

I hope you see a counselor individually to work at the guilt you are holding. You don't have to hold on to it.
sienna76 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 04:03 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
 
GingerM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I'm probably miserable because I'm allowing myself to be miserable.
Sorry I'm coming in to this a little late, but this popped out at me. You are not miserable because you're *allowing* yourself to be miserable. (here comes the velvet hammer) You're miserable because you're making yourself miserable.

I don't mean that in a "oh just suck it up and deal with it way". I mean that each time you have a kneejerk reaction towards your mom, you, at some level, make a decision to say the words and do the actions. By making the decision to behave that way, you feed the little monster inside you that's screaming "Vengence is MINE!" That little monster will eat you alive.

I struggled with wanting love too. I found a way to accept that I would never get what I wanted, but I never had any good words to use to describe what I did. DesertEyes, however, said it beautifully in a post long ago. (Pardon me if I misquote here, I'm paraphrasing).

When a bank forgives a loan, they essentially say "we're never going to get our money back, and we give up on trying." They do NOT say "oh, that money we loaned you? Yeah, well, you aren't really responsible for it, it's okay, you don't have to pay it back, life is full of rainbows and unicorns, and we don't mind that you didn't pay it back." Nope, banks don't do that. They say "we're never going to get what you owe us, so we will quit accepting it. We do not remove from you your responsibility to pay it back, and we're dinging your credit rating, and we will never give you another loan, but we're going to quit wasting our time trying to get our money back from you."

In the sense that a bank forgives a loan, I have forgiven my parents. I accept that they are not ever going to give me what I wanted. I accept that it's a waste of my time to try to get it from them and all it does is make me feel worse. However, their "emotional credit rating" with me is pretty low, and I do not trust them with anything emotional, either in comments they make to me or in me meeting my own emotional needs. They are in emotional foreclosure.

You say you're "allowing" yourself to be miserable. I say you're making yourself miserable by expecting to get something that you have never had any reason or past behaviors to expect that you will get.

Forgive the loan. Move forward. Walk away (metaphorically). I am making it sound a LOT easier than it really is, and I know that. But that is the path you must take to stop making yourself nuts with this.

In the "Rights of ACoAs" listed in the stickies at the top of this forum is one that I repeat to myself on an unfortunately regular basis. "I have the right to not participate in the crazy-making behaviors of my family." You might want to try that out the next time you feel yourself getting on the verge of saying or doing something that will only make you feel worse.

You also mentioned being open to counseling/therapy. I strongly suggest that you look into someone with a strong background in cognitive behavioral therapy. I also strongly suggest that you go to the stickied post at the top of this forum that says "13 common characteristics of ACoAs" - print a copy of it and take it with you, marking each of the things that apply to you. Let the therapist/counselor know that this is what you want to work on.

I have been in therapy for many years now. I still see my therapist once a month for my "monthly tune up". I've come from roughly the spot that you are describing to a spot where most of the time I feel like my life is MINE to control and MINE to act on how I see fit. My family normally doesn't manage to control me (which is what they do when they get under our skin and make us want to commit murder) anymore. Oh sure, I still get caught up in the odd bit of drama - usually after a long lull when my defenses are down. But I have learned so many new tools for how to deal with it, that it's rarely as bad or as prolonged as it used to be. My life has more peace than trauma now, and it's truly a lovely place to be.
GingerM is offline  
Old 07-15-2009, 04:26 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
tromboneliness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by GingerM View Post
When a bank forgives a loan, they essentially say "we're never going to get our money back, and we give up on trying." They do NOT say "oh, that money we loaned you? Yeah, well, you aren't really responsible for it, it's okay, you don't have to pay it back, life is full of rainbows and unicorns, and we don't mind that you didn't pay it back." Nope, banks don't do that. They say "we're never going to get what you owe us, so we will quit accepting it. We do not remove from you your responsibility to pay it back, and we're dinging your credit rating, and we will never give you another loan, but we're going to quit wasting our time trying to get our money back from you."

In the sense that a bank forgives a loan, I have forgiven my parents.
This is such a great description! My favorite program speaker (John MacDougal) says, "Forgiveness is giving up hope for a better past." That's what we're talking about here. Forgiveness doesn't mean "it's all good," with all the attendant rainbows and unicorns -- it means we're moving on. Period. Getting on with what makes our lives better, going forward.

And dinging their credit rating.

T
tromboneliness is offline  
Old 07-18-2009, 04:44 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
In Recovery
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by riaerif View Post
...that's just how I feel about my mom. I want her love so much, but yeah, I'm starting to realize I'm not going to get it, at least not in the way I want it. I think it's great you found a way to cope with everything. I hope I can, too, eventually.
I'm 39...it took me living with her--ah-gain (D'OH!!)--to finally realize that No Matter What, no matter how healthy I get, I will NEVER get her acceptance...never. She will never approve...and I have to be able to be okay with that, and know that what I'm doing is the best for me and my children. I know now that my level of health / sickness will not change her level of sickness / health...no matter what.

I made myself a promise years ago, with gritted teeth, full of bitter anger, that I will never let my children go one day without KNOWING they are loved. I don't want them once to ever question how much they mean to me, how precious and special they are. They will always know that their mother loves them no matter what.

Sometimes, that is the better 'revenge' and justice. Knowing that you are healthier, happier, and will do MUCH MUCH better with yours.

God Bless,
TheGirlInside is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:08 PM.