Guilt
Just one of the gang
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 73
Guilt
On another thread we started to talk about guilty feelings. JT threw out the question of whether or not feeling ungrateful was the same as guilt. I think it's kind of a subset... like daffodils are jonquils but not all jonquils are daffodils... like chihuahuas are dogs but not all dogs are chihuahuas. So maybe feeling ungrateful is a Miniature Poodle of guilt and feeling responsible for, oh... say... carelessly sitting on the doomsday button and destroying northern Europe is a Great Dane. Okay... a pack of Great Danes... a rabid, mangey, snarling street-pack of Great Danes! Or maybe this graduates into the wolf category.
And also JT asked.... where does the guilt come from? Pardon me while I think about this as my fingers fly, once again. I've heard people say that guilt is a useless emotion. I don't really agree with that. It's useless when it's over something you can't change and maybe didn't have any part in in the first place... but guilt over something you HAVE done can keep you from doing it again. Seems to me guilt is just a torturously overblown feeling of responsibility, without which we couldn't function as a society and probably wouldn't have made it past the Cain and Abel incident. And... oh dear... I'm about to attack my ego again. Isn't assuming resonsibility for something you can't have had anything to do with kind of an ego thing? I, me, myself should have done something... or not have done something... to change the course of events. So where does that overblown ego come from? (oh crap, oh crap.... here I go to guiltland) I think maybe becoming self important (overly) may sometimes be a result of having to be self-sufficient (overly). I never had to scrap for food as a kid. I know my parents loved me. But emotionally isolated I was. Figuring that one out will take longer than my lunch break.
Thoughts?
Dop
And also JT asked.... where does the guilt come from? Pardon me while I think about this as my fingers fly, once again. I've heard people say that guilt is a useless emotion. I don't really agree with that. It's useless when it's over something you can't change and maybe didn't have any part in in the first place... but guilt over something you HAVE done can keep you from doing it again. Seems to me guilt is just a torturously overblown feeling of responsibility, without which we couldn't function as a society and probably wouldn't have made it past the Cain and Abel incident. And... oh dear... I'm about to attack my ego again. Isn't assuming resonsibility for something you can't have had anything to do with kind of an ego thing? I, me, myself should have done something... or not have done something... to change the course of events. So where does that overblown ego come from? (oh crap, oh crap.... here I go to guiltland) I think maybe becoming self important (overly) may sometimes be a result of having to be self-sufficient (overly). I never had to scrap for food as a kid. I know my parents loved me. But emotionally isolated I was. Figuring that one out will take longer than my lunch break.
Thoughts?
Dop
Guest
Posts: n/a
Within each one of us there is "The Law" (different for each of us)
When we break "The Law" we have guilt.
Then there is the punishment that fits the crime.
What is the law we broke or may break?
Who created the law for us?
What did we do to break the law that brought on the guilt and
What is the punishment that was set up for us?
I also think that perfectionism has something to do with it for me. Mistakes and flaws are unforgivable. All A's and one B+ just doesn't cut it and cancels out all the A's. That B+ becomes the failure of a lifetime. 3rd grade and never forgotten.
Very complicated stuff.
When we break "The Law" we have guilt.
Then there is the punishment that fits the crime.
What is the law we broke or may break?
Who created the law for us?
What did we do to break the law that brought on the guilt and
What is the punishment that was set up for us?
I also think that perfectionism has something to do with it for me. Mistakes and flaws are unforgivable. All A's and one B+ just doesn't cut it and cancels out all the A's. That B+ becomes the failure of a lifetime. 3rd grade and never forgotten.
Very complicated stuff.
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
Yes, very complicated stuff.
My first sponsor told me that I was completly wrong when I said I was a 'people pleaser' that really trying to please others was about my own ego, and today I understand that (then I said a few not nice words). The same thing when I feel quilty for something that I did not do (quiety JT), it is my ego. Wanting to be liked/loved, taking responsibilty for something that I had no control over or nothing to do with.
For me this comes from my childhood. I was told that I should never have been born, that my sisters life was ruined when I was born. I am sure I have shared this before. I was born the day before my closest sister in age 7th birthday. Her memory is that my mom was making her birthday cake and went into labor with me, the cake was never finished and she sat there all alone on her 7th birthday, no party nothing, life was ruined. From that day on she got no attention at all, it was all about me. She treated me like crap until my teens and then she introduced me to drugs. (my moms memory of that day is different).
that is where my feeling comes from. Please people and they will love me, they will then think that I should have been born and be happy that I am here on earth. Take responsiblity for others actions and they will want me around.
It really is pretty basic for me, I understand it today, but that does not always stop me from feeling that way. I felt quilty for years just for being born. I was not planned and when a child is told they are a mistake by siblings, they believe it. I felt so guilty for that. That is an example of guilt being a useless wasted emotion. Feeling guilty because I hurt someone, is not a wasted emotion. For me, feeling guilty about things I did while using, is not really bad, having remorse and not wanting to hurt people like that is a motivator to stay clean. but letting the guilt eat away at me and my soul is bad and will send me out to use again. This is really complicated stuff.
I still today apologize for things that I had nothign to do with. My sponsor (along with a few around here) sets me straight and I am getting better all the time.
Wow Dop!!!!
My first sponsor told me that I was completly wrong when I said I was a 'people pleaser' that really trying to please others was about my own ego, and today I understand that (then I said a few not nice words). The same thing when I feel quilty for something that I did not do (quiety JT), it is my ego. Wanting to be liked/loved, taking responsibilty for something that I had no control over or nothing to do with.
For me this comes from my childhood. I was told that I should never have been born, that my sisters life was ruined when I was born. I am sure I have shared this before. I was born the day before my closest sister in age 7th birthday. Her memory is that my mom was making her birthday cake and went into labor with me, the cake was never finished and she sat there all alone on her 7th birthday, no party nothing, life was ruined. From that day on she got no attention at all, it was all about me. She treated me like crap until my teens and then she introduced me to drugs. (my moms memory of that day is different).
that is where my feeling comes from. Please people and they will love me, they will then think that I should have been born and be happy that I am here on earth. Take responsiblity for others actions and they will want me around.
It really is pretty basic for me, I understand it today, but that does not always stop me from feeling that way. I felt quilty for years just for being born. I was not planned and when a child is told they are a mistake by siblings, they believe it. I felt so guilty for that. That is an example of guilt being a useless wasted emotion. Feeling guilty because I hurt someone, is not a wasted emotion. For me, feeling guilty about things I did while using, is not really bad, having remorse and not wanting to hurt people like that is a motivator to stay clean. but letting the guilt eat away at me and my soul is bad and will send me out to use again. This is really complicated stuff.
I still today apologize for things that I had nothign to do with. My sponsor (along with a few around here) sets me straight and I am getting better all the time.
Wow Dop!!!!
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Then there is the punishment that fits the crime.
After all, if we feel guilty about something we have no control over Dop pointed out that it becomes and "ego thing". True enough.
And if we feel guilt about something we have done that was a mistake of some sort, like blowing up Northern Europe, we organize a soup kitchen for all the misplaced souls and hire a contractor to rebuild a continent. We make amends.
While we are ladling out the soup, some people may be thankful that we are feeding them and some people are going to spit on us or reach over the the soup pot and grab us by our hair. Just because our feelings of guilt led us to voluntarily make restitution doesn't mean that everyone will accept that. No longer my problem. No guilt.
Handled correctly quilt is fleeting. Feeling guilty about examining your past? Is it something you can control or not? Maybe something is back there for you to make amends for.
There was and,I am sure, still is in my past...I was a manipulating brat. Who me?? I got all the tricks...just not the 'ism.
Hugs,
JT
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Posts: n/a
Felling guily myself!
I'm so glad you brought this up! I have not been able to get over the guilt of what I feel my "afair" and devorce did to my kids. At the time I moved out (or got "kicked out") of the house, it was right before my son's 13th birthday! My kids stayed with their father. He could better afford to continue giving them the life we both wanted them to have. It was around halloween, and I had bought the kids a nice pumpkin to carve out. Well, my son's BD was November 4th, and I baked him a cake, (or should I say my mom did, because the stupid oven in the apartment I moved into burned the cake I made. First time I used the oven there!) So I had the guilt over that. I was only able to ice it! And at dinner, I asked my son why they hadn't carved the pumpking for halloween. His reply..."Because you are never here". I will NEVER forget that! I had to keep myself composed for the rest of the night, but I felt so guilty! But it's not only that. Its the fact that I broke up their home. And then right after that my youngest (the one who turned 13) his whole attitude started to change. He was no longer the bubbly happy boy he used to be. even up to this day. He will be 18 this November. I moved back in the house 2 years ago because I couldn't stand being away from them. (My oldest is 21) He (my 17 1/2 year old) is now using marajauna. He is basicly a good kid, but is not very motivated and always seems angry. I know that it is the way most kids his age act, but I can't help feeling guilty and responsible for it. I need to feel released from this guilt! But I don't know how!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tropical Island
Posts: 76
Guilt ?
Oh dear me what an enormous topic.
What kind of guilt ?
Guilt as in culpability ?
Guilt as in the undeserved kind that eats away at the spiritual core of many adult children ?
I have done a lot of things in my life for which I am accountable for but I do not want to talk about that kind of guilt.
I would like to talk about the kind of guilt which was a component of my dysfuctional family system.
My family system was structured on dysfuctional rules, beliefs , practises and behavior and paramount among these were the pracise of "shaming".
As a child I was often told that I ought to be ashamed of myself.
Why....?
Because I asked for things that I needed.
Because I failed to do well in school.
Because I was overheard telling my friend that my father was drunk.
"Shaming" is a way of enforcing family rules and to ensure family loyalty.
Shaming is a very powerful tool in dysfuntional families but it breeds a lot of guilt that does not go away even after the child departs from the family and many ACA's carry guilt around with them for the rest of their lives.
So now when I buy something nice for myself I feel ashamed and guilty.
When I fall short of an accomplishment I feel ashamed of myself and I am "guilty" of being a failure.........so I punish myself.
If I try to talk about the things in my family I am silenced by feelings of "guilt" for breaking the family rules.
My guilt is very often coupled with shame. It is a destructive emotion that kept me in isolation for a very long time.
I have met ACA's who said they felt responsible for their parents divorce.
I was not "guilty" for asking my mother for a new pair of school shoes.
I was not "guilty" because I couldn't understand geometry and algebra.
I was not guilty because my friend saw my father come staggering up the driveway and asked me if he was sick.
I refuse to allow guilt and shame to rule my life any longer.
I was very easy to manipulate because of my shame and guilt but now all that is changing and it really feels good to be able to pick up the phone and say the word ....No.
I could write volumes on the subject of guilt.But for now let me just say that I am content to be able to put guilt where it belongs by being able to hold up my hand and say "Yes I did that. I am sorry and I won't do it again."
What kind of guilt ?
Guilt as in culpability ?
Guilt as in the undeserved kind that eats away at the spiritual core of many adult children ?
I have done a lot of things in my life for which I am accountable for but I do not want to talk about that kind of guilt.
I would like to talk about the kind of guilt which was a component of my dysfuctional family system.
My family system was structured on dysfuctional rules, beliefs , practises and behavior and paramount among these were the pracise of "shaming".
As a child I was often told that I ought to be ashamed of myself.
Why....?
Because I asked for things that I needed.
Because I failed to do well in school.
Because I was overheard telling my friend that my father was drunk.
"Shaming" is a way of enforcing family rules and to ensure family loyalty.
Shaming is a very powerful tool in dysfuntional families but it breeds a lot of guilt that does not go away even after the child departs from the family and many ACA's carry guilt around with them for the rest of their lives.
So now when I buy something nice for myself I feel ashamed and guilty.
When I fall short of an accomplishment I feel ashamed of myself and I am "guilty" of being a failure.........so I punish myself.
If I try to talk about the things in my family I am silenced by feelings of "guilt" for breaking the family rules.
My guilt is very often coupled with shame. It is a destructive emotion that kept me in isolation for a very long time.
I have met ACA's who said they felt responsible for their parents divorce.
I was not "guilty" for asking my mother for a new pair of school shoes.
I was not "guilty" because I couldn't understand geometry and algebra.
I was not guilty because my friend saw my father come staggering up the driveway and asked me if he was sick.
I refuse to allow guilt and shame to rule my life any longer.
I was very easy to manipulate because of my shame and guilt but now all that is changing and it really feels good to be able to pick up the phone and say the word ....No.
I could write volumes on the subject of guilt.But for now let me just say that I am content to be able to put guilt where it belongs by being able to hold up my hand and say "Yes I did that. I am sorry and I won't do it again."
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
But for now let me just say that I am content to be able to put guilt where it belongs by being able to hold up my hand and say "Yes I did that. I am sorry and I won't do it again."
Guilt - it is like a poison.
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