duet_4-8

...it makes me want to run screaming out the door!! I have had much, much worse things to deal with in the last several years, and I feel like maybe I am just being selfish. Please feel free to call it as you see it.

My mother is 86 years old, almost 87. She has been a victim all her life. She is scared of her shadow. She worries about how hard the wind blows, how much it will rain, if it is too cold or too hot. The clearest memory I have of her is watching her drink beer out of a tupperware glass (because, after all, what would the neighbors think), chain smoke, and mutter over and over "what am I ever going to do?".

From the time I was a very little girl, I was taught not to upset her. She just worries, you know. Humor her. Don't hurt her feelings. Poor, poor mama...She never did any of the things that I have since learned that mothers are supposed to do for daughters. I took care of her, period.

My dad died a little over two years ago, and she ultimately went to live with my widowed older sister (who is a whole other story...). I was left with taking care of her bills, and taking care of the condo that nobody lives in and she won't let me rent or sell. So when it's cold she worries that her water will freeze. She worries that there are leaves in the yard. She worries that it won't be warm enough for the cleaning lady...

And she has called me every single night since August of 2006!!

She always calls at 9:30 or later, even though I have asked her to call in the afternoon because evenings are very hectic for me. You see, she and my sister sleep in until 11 or later every morning and don't go to bed before 1am. I, on the other hand, get up at 6 every morning and have a son to get into bed at night.

If I don't answer, she always leaves a voicemail, even though I have told her that she doesn't need to-I will see the missed call.

And she calls back again and again. If I don't answer after two or three calls, she starts calling my sons because she is 'worried' about me. It is utterly ridiculous!

Besides the fact that it is just downright annoying, there isn't anything to say! The conversation repeats itself night after night.

I can't really share my life with her, because I have never shared my life with her. She hasn't the first clue about my life. And I am BUSY and I am TIRED by the time she calls. I don't WANT to hear about where they went to lunch or my sister's chronic diarrhea!

After asking that she not call so late, I have started not answering. I have actually skipped a night of talking to her here and there. I know I need to set a boundary here, and I have tried to. She just doesn't hear me at all.

So anyway, I just needed to vent to some folks who wouldn't accuse me of being a horrible, ungrateful daughter and who might even just understand why I feel like throwing my cell phone across the room every night when she calls.

Suggestions, anyone?

GiveLove

Hey, Jen!
I absolutely won't answer the phone when someone calls me at that late an hour, at least after I've told them more than once not to do so, and why. I make it pretty clear (read: angry) that I'm not going to answer.

Sounds like another boundary might be in order. Or several. And ya gotta stick to them (regardless of her reaction) if you want peace.

How about she takes care of her own condo from now on. She can hire people if she wants something done. Why should you have to take on this responsibility?

How about you just don't answer the phone after (insert time) and don't even bother listening to the message.

How about your sons block her number if she continues to abuse their phones.

How about a letter with all of this written in it - what you will and won't accept.

Mostly, I had to overcome the guilt of not answering the damn phone! I turned off the ringer at a certain time but still worried about it. Once I got in some good practice, however, it worked much better. I just had to keep telling myself: just because they call doesn't mean I have to respond.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. I'd suggest you treat your mom the same way you'd treat an acquaintance who was behaving this badly. What would you do if she weren't your mom? If she weren't 87? Even old lonely women need to respect boundaries. In my humblest of opinions!

I'm sure wascallywabbit has some stories she'll pop in and share next time she's in the neighborhood.......her situation is really similar!

Hugs and more hugs to you. I hope you find the right solution to make your life more peaceful. She sounds very frightened and clutching.

Kallista

It's not trivial. It will make you crazy.

Both my husband and I had to set really hard rules around the phone and our alcoholic parents. We have to be the keeper of the boundaries. They ignore them. We're the ones who enforce them. If we don't enforce them, the boundaries go out the window. It's not fair, but that's the way it is. It's like dealing with little kids.

If you feel you must answer the phone, limit the call to five or ten minutes. "I'm fine, Mom. Did you need something? No? How are you? Okay, I have to go to be soon. I'll talk to you tomorrow." And hang up.

If you can stand not answering the phone, I would suggest getting a cell phone for other family and friends, and turning of the ringer on your regular phone. Tell her you'll talk to her for 20 minutes on Sunday nights, and stick to that. Teach your sons to either not answer the phone or to say "Mom is great, Grandma. I have to go now. She'll talk to you later" and hang up the phone.

Whatever rule you choose, you're the one who has to enforce it, though.

TTOSBT

I feel for you. Everyone is so right, you are the one that has to set the boundary. I would let your sons know the situation and the boundary that you are trying to enforce and then I would leave a message on the voice mail saying something to the effect that Thank you for calling, if you are calling after ??pm, I will return the call the next day as you do not take calls after a certain hour.

I wish you the best of luck.

duet_4-8

Thanks everyone. You are all right; I knew these things before I posted. Doing them is another story sometimes...

I was walking around Michael's this afternoon looking at Christmas decorations, and my sister called. She began with the "we were worried about you", "why didn't you answer the phone", etc.

I told her that it was ridiculous for anyone to be 'worried' about me, that I was fine, but that I was very busy and that I could not answer the phone after 7pm. I told her I feel stressed by the expectation that I must talk to my mother every single night.

She said "she is almost 87", and I told her I was well aware of this. Then she said "I have her 24/7." (And that is my problem how??) I didn't ask her that, but I did say that I have a son in middle school 24/7, an 18-month old grandaughter, and a 6-week old grandson for some portion of almost every day. I am in school and trying to take care of all my responsiblities, and I simply do not think it is necessary for me to talk to mother every single night. I told her in the future, I would call when it is convenient for me.

So I called mother when I got back to the car, and told her that I cannot talk to her after 7pm, and that I will call her a couple of times a week.

We'll see how it goes. I'm betting it will be ok for a little while and then she will start calling again...

Eleison

My parents are similar in the worrying stakes. But have mellowed as they've got older, and as I work in therapy.
I too had to set clear boundaries with my parents about phone calls. It was hard to begin with, very hard. But it did work out.

madeline8653

Wow. I had a friend just like this. My life was being affected, so I had to place boundaries and eventually sever the relationship. Her doctor even told her she needs to see a psychiatrist because of the constant phonecalls to her office. She doesn't understand that her behavior is destructive to other people. I also see by your statement - "She always calls at 9:30 or later, even though I have asked her to call in the afternoon because evenings are very hectic for me." that there is no respect for your boundaries which is hallmark of an unhealthy relationship. Ultimately, it comes down to placing consequences and acting on them after a boundary has been ignored. This is the only way things can change because we can't change the other person. Best of luck to you.

Wascally Wabbit

I can relate. My mom "worries" too. I think it's more a way to convey guilt onto me than actual real worry about anything. It's as though if she complains or whines or worries, then I will automatically know that I am supposed to, in fact expected to, fix it.
Well, I can't fix any thing.

I know how frustrating it is.

dothi

I really feel for you, duet4-8. Boundaries are the key here. In families with this kind of dysfunctional dynamic, when one person tries to assert themself the others will intensify their behavior to pull the person back into the dynamic. In this case, your sister became involved on your mom's behalf to bring you back into the fold. Decide on your boundaries and STICK to them, e.g. one phone call per day, and never after 7:00pm. When they call after 7:00pm with an "emergency" (which from the sounds of your mom, she will), decide in advance how you're going to deal with it. If you let yourself be overwhelmed by, "See? Becaues you were a bad daughter, this terrible thing happened," then you're more likely to give in and get sucked back into it. Keep calm and reason through it.

"Wow, mom, so your light bulb's burnt out?"
"Well that's why I called you..." *guilt bomb ready*
"So what do you do when your bulb is burnt out?"
"Uh... find a new one and change it?"
"Cool. Glad to hear you've got it under control. Take care!" *hang up*

If you don't feel this way already, you'll certainly feel like the parent now. Like a parent you'll have to be firm and consistent. Your mom may have never taught you this, but it is possible to be stern with someone and love them at the same time. Setting rules with someone isn't done out of spite or lack of caring; if anything, it's done out of love so that the needs of both people can be comfortably met.

I have gone through this SO much with my family, and actually had to rehearse with a therapist what to say when I found myself on the receiving end of this predictable, manipulative crap. If my mom/sister/brother/father say anything on par of "Why didn't you call? We were worried about you." I generally rebound with something like, "I'm a grown adult", "If you need to talk to me, call and leave a message and I'll get back to you"

When I'm particularly pissed, I ask them if they would expect their friends or coworkers to call them to "check in". Because that's the key difference here. They would never treat a stranger like this (how disrespectful, right?). But for some f**ked up reason, because you're family, somehow that makes it okay. Treating you like you are on call, anytime, anyday, with no priorities greater than their trivial desires is somehow okay.

But it's not okay. Not if it's making you miserable/closed in/suffocated/trapped/etc

Decide for yourself what your boundaries are and STICK to them. Find a friend. Get them to parrot your mom so you can rehearse what you'll say (and you know what your mom will say to every 'no' you have in the book). Use the healthy relationships you have with friends and other people to maintain an idea of what you're hoping to achieve with your mom. I hope this isn't too preachy, but seriously, it helped me make my few first steps to a more independent, less suffocated life. Good luck!

duet_4-8

It lasted roughly 48 hours...I called mom today about 4pm, got no answer, didn't leave a message because she doesn't know how to check voicemail.

She called at 9:48pm.

Left the same message she has been leaving for months...like I never even said anything.

DesertEyes

Hey there Jen

Sorry I'm so late to this thread. Sounds to me like you have made the first step towards finding peace of mind. _You_ have established your boundaries with her calling. The fact that she won't respect your boundaries is really not a surprise. You've made the first "baby step" in the process of "re-training" your Mom, and that is always the hardest step.

It took me _years_ to "re-train" my parents, but that was mostly cuz I _sucked_ at sticking to my boundaries. I caved way too many times. But once I taught _me_ to stand firm things got better very quickly.

Oh yeah, one thing that worked for me is that I got a separate phone number. The number I have my toxic family I never answered, the other number I gave to everybody else

Mike

GingerM

Hi Jen,

First off, I don't think that this is trivial. This is crazy-making is what it is. Everyone else has already gone over the boundary thing, so I will tell you what I've done.

I unplug the (&T%#$(* phone. Period. Cell phone gets turned off, house phone gets unplugged. It'll go to voice mail. Let 'em rant at the machine - the one I can hit "delete" on the instant I hear who it is. Then I return the call at a more reasonable hour.

My sister turned all the ringers off in her house - all of them. Her phone never audibly rang. If the answering machine picked up, she would pick up if it was someone she wanted to talk to. Her answering machine was not near the bedrooms, it was in the living quarters part of the house. Which meant that during reasonable hours, if she was home, she'd hear the call and return it if she had time. It worked wonderfully.

I'm not one to call people at weird hours or even call terribly frequently. I understood how her system worked and would leave a message if I wanted her to call me back. One never knew if she was home or not because her phones were always set up this way.

After an initial "getting used to it" stage, I thought the system worked pretty darned well. I knew that if it was really important for me to get ahold of her, I could call her three times in a row - if she really was home, she'd pick up on the third try (or would call me back after the second). She knew I wouldn't be repeatedly calling if it wasn't something truly important. Other people never caught on to that little trick.

I hope you find a way to make it work for you. There is no reason you should have to deal with this.

tromboneliness

Bingo! "Worry" = BS. It's the oldest trick in the book for ignoring boundaries and manipulating people.

My dad is very similar to the parent described above -- he's 88-going-on-89, and has been increasingly difficult since my Mom went into the hospital last December -- and seems to be becoming increasingly impossible since she died a few weeks ago.

I don't answer the phone if I don't feel like it -- that's all there is to it. I don't go by as often as he'd like -- because when I do, all we do is sit there in silence and (as my wife puts it) stare at each other.

My dad clings to the big suburban house I grew up in. Now that Mom is gone, he's stuck rattling around in it -- basically playing a game of chicken with me, thinking that if he holds out long enough, eventually I'll move back there (at 45, with a wife in tow? No frigging way!). Sorry, but that ain't how it works -- I don't work for him anymore.

And I do not worry about "what everyone thinks." They can think what they want -- that's their issue. (And frankly, I doubt everyone's thinking I'm an ingrate son in any case -- most of my family realizes that my dad is stubborn and unreasonable, in addition to being an alcoholic, raging petty tyrant. I'm just sayin' if they are thinking I'm an ingrate son, so what?)

T